Foreigners & FT are in Singapore to earn money only

last SG · 2010-06-11T10:00:37+00:00

I come to SGP coz I admire LKY and his family. I wanna learn how to amass big fortune the clean way

angel7030 SG

to be logic and coherent, for you, just dun read my post, otherwise, i also cannot help you. Thanks

Rooney9 SG

to be logic and coherent, for you, just dun read my post, otherwise, i also cannot help you. Thanks

No I didnt read all of your reply and I cant be bothered to, I just glance through quickly your first-two sentence and know its a failed. maybe you need to read more first in order to know the subject matter well enough to comment and analyse.

Rooney9 SG

or you are a troll, maybe you know. anyway you can say anything you like here, if it pleases you, I dun care.

Rock^Star SG

yeh 7030, most times I read ur posts....I have to say it's mostly hot air and you are just regurgitating old shit from your mouth.Your posts remind me of an ah lian attempting to write a university dissertation and ends up with an epic fail.

You keep mentioning you are a businesswoman, your pubs, your girls etc. In the first place, I dun think you are even a chio bu. Woman maybe but definitely not a chio one lol. And u dun have wealth worth flaunting, i mean come on...I just attended a private dinner with a multi-millionaire last week. He is the owner of a conglomerate and hires 7000 workers. He drives a simple suzuki when he could easily afford tens of ferraris. And people like you talking about your private condos and terraces....haha, u are a piece of shit really.

sgdiehard SG

You mention about fight for your host countries....i'm not sure these days conventional war between nations mean anything typically it take 3rd generations to fully adopt Full identity of the host country. It make it even more acute with the current movement of people globally.

I think eventual human conflict is going to be for Causes or Ideas more national identity. War on Terror brings out contradiction more than ever it cut thru national boundaries.

I think the notion that we bring in closer ethnicity may not solve the national identity problems but rather shared ideas and values are much better forged.

Agree, closer ethnicity may not, in fact, it does not, solve the national identity problems, but it is easier than people with diverse ethnicities. Today we are not talking about the chinese from PRC, or the indian, sri lankan, there are also philippinos, myanmese, indonesian. We must also recognize that the chinese from taiwan, HK, malaysia, indonesia are different, even among the chinese in singapore, there are english and chinese speaking. and from india, there are hindi and tamil. emphasizing ethnicity definitely does not help in forging national identity.

also agree with you that we need to forge a national identity based on shared ideas and values. What are our values? imho, we are appreciative of people who contribute to our nation and society, regardless of their ethnicity, or when did they land themselves here; we are tolerant to differences in races and religion; we call singapore our home, even though there are greener pastures outside.

all these bashing, cursing, bitching, moaning about FT, are not values of singapore.

sgdiehard SG

"If China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different." I would say "Yes' and "No".

Well, can you say the Singaporeans who settled down overseas do not intergrate themselves into the local communities?

I am not talking about intergrating into the local communities. Canada, oz and the us are so big, you don't really need to intergrate like living like an angmoh, except when you live in cities. you can live in china town of san fransco for months, a life that is more of a chinese than in singapore, without knowing how to speak english. Go to the shopping mall called aberdeen in richmond, vancouver, you will hear announcement in cantonese and mandarin, no english, and you can hardly see a caucasian in the area.

But, will the people there call their new country HOME? do they hold the american green card just for convenience, and give up when they have to declare all their assets in HK to the US government for tax purposes. how many are still holding on to their singapore, or malaysian passports after years living there, just in case?

I feel very proud being singaporean when I met many singaporean who hold on to their singaporean identity, but when people come here and bash the new immigrants who are contributing to the local economy, doing jobs that nobody want to do, I find these singaporean double standard, and hypocrite.

worse, there are nuts who think that singaporean must speak english, so the PRC who cannot speak proper english cannot be singaporean.

dawnliner SG

I would say that FTs are never that loyal to their home country.

1) If they are that loyal to their home country - why should they even 'betray' their home country and come to a foreign land to make money? They should have find ways and means to improve their home country should they be that loyal.

I would say they're selfish. For their own gain and interest, they come to Singapore and make money. They are neither loyal nor 'faithful'. However, that apply to some FTs, not all.

I agree that some FT are here in Singapore to earn money only however I would beg to differ that not all FTs are like that.

Imagine a poor farmer boy in China, he attends school and make his way to the top (in term of academic). He wanted to improve the life of his and his family hence he finds work opportunities in Singapore.

He comes to Singapore to work and earn money. And here we are .. Singaporeans .. complaining ..

It's a win-win situation. We need talents but they're not for FREE. Hence we pay them and offer them jobs. SHOULD SINGAPOREANS have that 'talent' - we don't even need to 'import' them.

However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..

In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.

See, there are other COUNTRIES in the world that offer a even HIGHER pay for these foreign talents but WHY ARE THEY NOT IMPORTING THEM???

Think about it.

I am talking about the upper FTs - not construction workers etc.

There are cons to importing too much FTs here though ..

soul_rage SG

I'm in Indonesia because I can offer the country what locals cannot. On the contrary, there are many foreigners in Sg stealing local jobs because they are cheaper.

It's funny that just because I have permanent residence in Indo, I'm obligated to fight for them. Hahaha, very laughable cos even the chinese who have made it rich here will have no intention to defend the land when attacked.

I'm here to suck the country's money, cos why? I contribute to their economy, I'm needed here, so I've got every right to do so.

Agree. I am in USA coz I can contribute at a level where it has a shortage of such skillset, NOT because the country is generous

I am pretty amused by the forumer here that talks about dying for the country I work in. In these modern times, there's actually an old dinosaur here preaching old nonsense.

The problem with Singpore's foreign labor policy is that they are bringing people in to contribute what the locals can do, and in doing so, steal jobs from the locals. You only need to look at where they go to do mass recruitment to see the strategy is all about making Singapore cheaper, lousier and slower.

soul_rage SG

I would say that FTs are never that loyal to their home country.

I would say they're selfish. For their own gain and interest, they come to Singapore and make money. They are neither loyal nor 'faithful'. However, that apply to some FTs, not all.

I agree that some FT are here in Singapore to earn money only however I would beg to differ that not all FTs are like that.

He comes to Singapore to work and earn money. And here we are .. Singaporeans .. complaining ..

It's a win-win situation. We need talents but they're not for FREE. Hence we pay them and offer them jobs. SHOULD SINGAPOREANS have that 'talent' - we don't even need to 'import' them.

However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..

In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.

See, there are other COUNTRIES in the world that offer a even HIGHER pay for these foreign talents but WHY ARE THEY NOT IMPORTING THEM???

Think about it.

I am talking about the upper FTs - not construction workers etc.

There are cons to importing too much FTs here though ..

I don't think you even truly understand what a Foreign Talent means

A foreign talent receives pay that is equivalent or more than the $$$ that a local talent earns in that country. A foreign talent that goes to another country to work does not take lower pay. Otherwise, THAT is not a foreign talent, BUT foreign labor.

The pay I receive here is in the top bracket of American pay. I am not being paid lower than an American, otherwise, I am NOT a foreign talent here, but foreign labor.

Another thing is, you keep mentioning Singaporeans are expensive. What is your basis of comparison? Do you even understand the differences in costs of living between countries? Do you not understand that due to our cost of living, Singaporeans can never accept a pay lower than those foreign labor?

Arapahoe SG

Politically, your govt are independent, but socially, your people still depend on yr govt alots and economically, you bread and butter still depend on the global economy. So, are you truly independent??

Ha....you need to read more.....

Politically Singapore has a voice and a Vote in United Nation.

Politically when Singaporean go to China to work, they get to go to send their son to international school.

Politically we get to flag our Red Passport Left Right Center in YOUR Taiwan Hum FACE.

You have to ask yourself why so many Taiwanese wants to be independents from China before you comment about Singapore being an independent statehood.

Arapahoe SG

I would say that FTs are never that loyal to their home country.

I would say they're selfish. For their own gain and interest, they come to Singapore and make money. They are neither loyal nor 'faithful'. However, that apply to some FTs, not all.

I agree that some FT are here in Singapore to earn money only however I would beg to differ that not all FTs are like that.

He comes to Singapore to work and earn money. And here we are .. Singaporeans .. complaining ..

It's a win-win situation. We need talents but they're not for FREE. Hence we pay them and offer them jobs. SHOULD SINGAPOREANS have that 'talent' - we don't even need to 'import' them.

However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..

In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.

See, there are other COUNTRIES in the world that offer a even HIGHER pay for these foreign talents but WHY ARE THEY NOT IMPORTING THEM???

Think about it.

I am talking about the upper FTs - not construction workers etc.

There are cons to importing too much FTs here though ..

Not all foreigners who migrate are not grateful to the host country. So sometime it is hard to gun down everyone with the same weapon.

I believe there are percentage of foreigners who are truly moving out to Singapore to settled down.

One of the reason why PRC or other Asian move to Singapore because of its Western image and modern cities. ironically they move away from tradition.

I've seen Chinese families move to Village of Honduras to get away from China.

RoyFang SG

worse, there are nuts who think that singaporean must speak english, so the PRC who cannot speak proper english cannot be singaporean.

Like what you said: Canada, the Oz and USA are big countries, compare it with Singapore. Can we afford that kind of situation as mentioned in your example, where a Chinese can live in China town of San Francisco without the ability to speak and understand English here in Singapore? That's why foreigners have to integrate into our community.

Is there any statistic for the number of Singaporeans still holding to their SG passports when they had lived in another country for years? Not counting those living in exile for obvious reasons.

Yes, we all feel proud to be citizens of Singapore but let's face it PAP had opened the floodgates without control and label FTs and FWs under one term "FTs"

Yes, there are FWs who are contributing to the local economy doing jobs that nobody want to do. Note these are FWs not FTs and the government kept justifying the influx of FWs by hiding it under the term "FTs".

What are the jobs that nobody want to do? Let's take cleaner for an example, shall we?

Sure you can employ a FW because it's assumed locals wouldn't want to be one isn't it? But think about it, the government had raised the age limit for one to retire isn't it? So what happened to the elderly who are out of a job at their age? Some of them would gladly take up the cleaner job as long as they have an income isn't it?

So is being a cleaner a job that locals doesn't want or is it assumed to be?

I remember an MP once said there was a problem in his ward about a cleaner who is not performing well in his/her job and what did he do? He hired a FW...I guess that said a lot of thing by his action.

For your last point, our first language is English isn't it? Unless you're telling me that PRC will only encounter Singaporean Chinese for the rest of his/her life here, if not I hope he/she is improving his/her English skills by taking a English language course.

I'm okay with people who speak broken English provided it's understandable.

mlmersrlosers SG

this may not be true for all foreigners and FT, as some willingly gave up their citizens to migrate to Singapore for good. but the some are very rare and in the minority. I believe most foreigners come to singapore to earn as much money as they could and then return to their home country, so dun expect any loyalty from these foreign PRs.

you can see so many PRC's people coming to singapore to work, because of the high exchange rate. if they saved SGD 10K in singapore, they can go back to china and exchange for 40,000 yuan to spend.

zzz...this is an old fact....everybody knows

what about singaporeans? you think the younger gen are loyal? They also jump here jump there

dawnliner SG

I don't think you even truly understand what a Foreign Talent means

The pay I receive here is in the top bracket of American pay. I am not being paid lower than an American, otherwise, I am NOT a foreign talent here, but foreign labor.

I admit that I don't know everything.

I also believe that you may have misunderstood my 'Farmer Analogy' .. Sorry about that but the key point is this : To agree with the TS that Foreigners and FT are in Singapore to earn money only.

The below is my basis for 'Singaporeans are generally more expensive'

"A worker in Singapore will cost $1000 per month or more, but there is a bountiful stream of workers in China who will gladly work for $100 per month ... that is why we should lower our wage costs." - Labour chief Lim Boon Heng, Straits Times, June 17 2002

I understand the difference in terms of 'Cost of living'. I lived in Sydney,Australia for a period of 3 months and Canada , Toronto for a period of a year.

In Sydney, you buy a 'MyMulti 1' ticket which will cost about $50SGD for an adult.

It's valid for a period of a week. Let's not compare about the distance from A to B etc.

Transportation itself is expensive there

A coke cost about $4SGD in Coles.

It's true that Singaporeans can never accept any pay lower than a foreign labor but look again ..

Can we say that the Foreign Labors aren't living well in Singapore? I am sure they're living happily and leading a simple life in Singapore and perhaps 3/4 HDB Flat.

What I am getting on is this ... they work for a cheaper pay in Singapore - but to compare it back to their home country - it's considered a 'high pay' for them. They can use the money earned to feed for themselves and even to send some money back home etc ..

As an employer - you get a cheaper worker / X2 hardworking than a Singaporean. And I strongly believe in working hard and working smart to get a promotion. Hence .. who's likely to get promoted and eventually have their pay increase?

Say in a sales person in XYZ Shopping Centre.

Foreign Labor earn : $500 per month

S'pore Worker: $700 per month

Foreign Labor because of hardwork and 'smart work' - get promoted as compared to that S'pore worker .. (promoted to a sales manager/supervisor)

Hence his pay will increase to a 'cheaper' Supervisor fee range. Therefore he gets a FASTER promotion than that Singaporean.

Hence .. it's not whether Singaporeans can accept a lower wages but whether they see the big picture behind it and not chasing the 5 'C's at the 'wrong time'.

And I don't think that 'low wages' will be of that much different. that's IMHO

Like today's news .. in China .. factory workers are demanding for a higher pay - they go on strike. Foxconn's workers commited suicide because of terrible working hours and low pay.

What does these reality tells us ??

These poor workers aka labors got to go elsewhere to another country to earn more money.

Talking about Foreign Talent.

They definitely got more experience in term of 'looking outside the world' as compared to a Singaporean. In Chinese proverbs : A frog in a well .. and that frog is us.

I am not pro-FTs and I am a 101% Singaporean. I agree with the doings of the government.

There are CONS in all these plans but looking at the PROS - it will benefit Singapore as a whole nation and not individual/sectors in the working world.

dawnliner SG

Not all foreigners who migrate are not grateful to the host country. So sometime it is hard to gun down everyone with the same weapon.

I believe there are percentage of foreigners who are truly moving out to Singapore to settled down.

One of the reason why PRC or other Asian move to Singapore because of its Western image and modern cities. ironically they move away from tradition.

I've seen Chinese families move to Village of Honduras to get away from China.

Yupp. I agree with it.

There are 101 reasons to migrate here and there. I may move to Australia because of the nice weather. I may move to China because ...

However noting that Singapore is the best in Education / etc .. Foreigners move to Singapore because of the benefits .. for their future.. or even so .. to escape natural disaster etc ..

If you watch 'Mao's Last Dancer' - or read his novel .. Li CunXin insisted in staying in the States because in his home country (China) - he comes from a poor village - he finds his LOVE (: and see a better future there as compared to his poor village which offers no future for him .. hence he decided to 'escape' China ..

Devil7030 SG

Why red eye only on foreigners and FT earn money in Singapore ?

Why no red eye on the rich and elites earn the lifetime income of the poor in a month in Singapore ?

Annilator47 SG

I admit that I don't know everything.

I also believe that you may have misunderstood my 'Farmer Analogy' .. Sorry about that but the key point is this : To agree with the TS that Foreigners and FT are in Singapore to earn money only.

The below is my basis for 'Singaporeans are generally more expensive'

I understand the difference in terms of 'Cost of living'. I lived in Sydney,Australia for a period of 3 months and Canada , Toronto for a period of a year.

In Sydney, you buy a 'MyMulti 1' ticket which will cost about $50SGD for an adult.

It's valid for a period of a week. Let's not compare about the distance from A to B etc.

Transportation itself is expensive there

A coke cost about $4SGD in Coles.

It's true that Singaporeans can never accept any pay lower than a foreign labor but look again ..

Can we say that the Foreign Labors aren't living well in Singapore? I am sure they're living happily and leading a simple life in Singapore and perhaps 3/4 HDB Flat.

Say in a sales person in XYZ Shopping Centre.

Foreign Labor earn : $500 per month

S'pore Worker: $700 per month

Foreign Labor because of hardwork and 'smart work' - get promoted as compared to that S'pore worker .. (promoted to a sales manager/supervisor)

Hence his pay will increase to a 'cheaper' Supervisor fee range. Therefore he gets a FASTER promotion than that Singaporean.

Hence .. it's not whether Singaporeans can accept a lower wages but whether they see the big picture behind it and not chasing the 5 'C's at the 'wrong time'.

And I don't think that 'low wages' will be of that much different. that's IMHO

Like today's news .. in China .. factory workers are demanding for a higher pay - they go on strike. Foxconn's workers commited suicide because of terrible working hours and low pay.

What does these reality tells us ??

These poor workers aka labors got to go elsewhere to another country to earn more money.

Talking about Foreign Talent.

They definitely got more experience in term of 'looking outside the world' as compared to a Singaporean. In Chinese proverbs : A frog in a well .. and that frog is us.

I am not pro-FTs and I am a 101% Singaporean. I agree with the doings of the government.

There are CONS in all these plans but looking at the PROS - it will benefit Singapore as a whole nation and not individual/sectors in the working world.

i will disagree..

firstly : sporeans are "protected" by the employment act, in the past for some sectors i know benefits were given to offset the low pay.

secondly at present please ask around those sectors who those people work before for 20years the policies then and now..you will notice something..the pay changes little, but most of the benefits is gone, add salt to the wound, rising cost of living..no matter how i see it. i don't see the way that they do it is a pro.

lastly sporeans for some are not choosy, but as proof i would like to ask you if you are willing to take a job here but at 1/3 or 2/3 the pay you had overseas? i believe you would say yes if you were single, but what about those married and having 1 or more kids with a HDB flat? have you ever thought of that angle?

i am also like you a 101% singaporean, served my 2 yrs full time NS, my 10 years reservist, been there seen thru the changes here got bad to worse.

the only thing is i cannot imagine how much more worse it will get, but i know more will come.

also is it also a pro when ministers pay and officers of the govt sector get pay rise but the rank and file workers there don't?

soul_rage SG

I admit that I don't know everything.

I also believe that you may have misunderstood my 'Farmer Analogy' .. Sorry about that but the key point is this : To agree with the TS that Foreigners and FT are in Singapore to earn money only.

The below is my basis for 'Singaporeans are generally more expensive'

I understand the difference in terms of 'Cost of living'. I lived in Sydney,Australia for a period of 3 months and Canada , Toronto for a period of a year.

In Sydney, you buy a 'MyMulti 1' ticket which will cost about $50SGD for an adult.

It's valid for a period of a week. Let's not compare about the distance from A to B etc.

Transportation itself is expensive there

A coke cost about $4SGD in Coles.

It's true that Singaporeans can never accept any pay lower than a foreign labor but look again ..

Can we say that the Foreign Labors aren't living well in Singapore? I am sure they're living happily and leading a simple life in Singapore and perhaps 3/4 HDB Flat.

Say in a sales person in XYZ Shopping Centre.

Foreign Labor earn : $500 per month

S'pore Worker: $700 per month

Foreign Labor because of hardwork and 'smart work' - get promoted as compared to that S'pore worker .. (promoted to a sales manager/supervisor)

Hence his pay will increase to a 'cheaper' Supervisor fee range. Therefore he gets a FASTER promotion than that Singaporean.

Hence .. it's not whether Singaporeans can accept a lower wages but whether they see the big picture behind it and not chasing the 5 'C's at the 'wrong time'.

And I don't think that 'low wages' will be of that much different. that's IMHO

Like today's news .. in China .. factory workers are demanding for a higher pay - they go on strike. Foxconn's workers commited suicide because of terrible working hours and low pay.

What does these reality tells us ??

These poor workers aka labors got to go elsewhere to another country to earn more money.

Talking about Foreign Talent.

They definitely got more experience in term of 'looking outside the world' as compared to a Singaporean. In Chinese proverbs : A frog in a well .. and that frog is us.

I am not pro-FTs and I am a 101% Singaporean. I agree with the doings of the government.

There are CONS in all these plans but looking at the PROS - it will benefit Singapore as a whole nation and not individual/sectors in the working world.

No one knows everything. I am the top in my domain, and I do not fear any other nationalities like the Chinese, Indians, Europeans, etc, for they are at most my equals. But I do not know everything.

The only sad thing about your posting above, is that you quote a minister that has no achievements to substantiate the point that Chinese work for $100 per month, whereas Singaporeans work for $1000 per month.

Again, you are trapped in the vicious cycle of listening to the govt's ramblings about how we must squeeze our locals, because the Chinese work for $100.

Let me tell you, if that's really the case, why then are locals in other countries doing well? Why then are locals in other countries earning a pay that is way higher than our pay in similar positions? If the minister whom you quote is so right, then why then other countries not face the same problems as we have now?

The truth is, it's our policies that are killing us. It's our govt's short-sightedness, and lack of judgement in deciding some focal points for our economy, that is killing us.

We aspire to be the hub of all hubs, but we are nothing but a confused hub. We don't have much of a competitive advantage against other upcoming countries, because we cannot even decide what we want to focus on, and end up dumping money in all directions, achieving little in the global arena. Even our great Temasek bled and lost so much of our hard earned money. As Jim Rogers said, the 'talents' in our great Temasek are nothing but idiots.

And because we don't have any focal points, the only thing our govt come out with, is how to squeeze wages so that we continue to remain affordable to attract investments. But given the rising cost of living, this is getting more and more impossible to do.

As I mentioned, giving companies here free access to cheap labor results in killing innovation.

But you know what is the saddest thing of all?

It's not our govt, but my fellow countrymen, who continue to vote for the PAP, even when life is getting harder for them. My fellow countrymen, who allow PAP leaders to humiliate them on the media, and yet continue to vote for the PAP. Outside of Singapore, Singaporeans are ranked among the top in productivity, but back home, you hear nothing but insults from our leaders about how lousy our people are.

The ones that I think should be condemned are not those that believe blindly in the propaganda of the PAP, but those who complain about them, yet in the end, vote for the PAP because (1) they are afraid to vote otherwise, (2) they hope someone else takes the responsibility of protesting against the PAP, (3) couldn't care less.

It's precisely these people, that will condemn Singapore to a living hell. Working outside of Singapore only strengthens my view that in 20-30 years time, (1) people will end up jobless at 40, (2) there will no longer be any identity as a Singaporean because of the blatant influx of foreign labor, (3) society will start to break apart due to the rising number of unemployed.

I feel sad, but at least I have moved out to become a foreign talent and not just a local talent. I do not need to depend on anyone, as I have enough to provide for myself and my loved ones. And I will do my part come elections, but I have little faith in my fellow countrymen.

Rock^Star SG

However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..

In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.

You never work overseas before, right? lol Either that, you may have been stuck in some well the past who knows how many years.

Yes, we sgporeans shouldnt demand too much because polytechnic pay 10 years ago averaged about $1500. Today, it is still about the same. University pay also averaged about $2500 then and today it hasnt changed much. I mean what are HDB prices? They only incread 2 fold, GST shot up to only 7%....so yes...I agree we shouldnt demand too much.

Does not matter if our engineer, lawyer, businessmen friends are earning so much more in other countries but we are still cheap hunting ground for MNCs. Does not matter too if other foreigners can come in and depress our wages too because without them, we wouldnt even have jobs! lol

Terminator Hitman SG

has anyone thought of getting an associate degree from a usa community school n move on to university in MIT?thats a real education!

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