LKY on China: Bring skills the Chinese do not have

soul_rage SG

Who is defending Singapore MNC? which companies were LHL refering to? which MNCs in Singapore are retrenching?

For your information, there are companies from all over the world in Singapore, and they practice policies of their home companies, and only abide by the laws of singapore.

Secondly, there is a difference between retrenchment DUE to redundancy and retrenchment TO reduce cost. There is a difference between reducing cost to survive and reducing cost to increase profits.

Thirdly, there is a difference between retrenching those who are WORKING with the company to save cost and employing cheaper NEW staff to keep cost down.

It is not about America and Singapore or the PAP!! You must have a pathetic childhood in Singapore, badly abused by the PAP, even in bright day light, you see only dark shadow, your own shadow.

Interesting, your feigned ignorance about Singapore MNC retrenching means you aren't reading the newspaper. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, since it seems you are pretty ignorant. Also, it shows you don't even understand what I mean when I say Singapore MNCs, NOT MNCs with a presence in Singapore (You cannot even differentiate the 2)

I can also see you are very biased towards USA, and told Aparahoe to see more of the world, as if he has not seen more than you do. Your biasness imply that you don't see much, and only derive your conclusions from 3rd party views, reports, etc.

In 2003, PSA retrenched 10% of its workforce. Lee Hsien Loong made a comment that "it's better to retrench in good times than in bad times". This was one of the most infamous statements he ever made. It opened the way for companies to have the option to retrench people in Singapore, even if they are still making money.

It's way different from USA, when companies are making losses, that they have to retrench.

You said there is a difference to retrench due to redundancy and retrench due to cutting costs. PSA was no different from the companies in USA, retrenching to cut costs. The DIFFERENCE is, PSA did it even when it was making huge profits, UNLIKE companies in USA that are making losses.

Did I link my views to the PAP? I merely am quoting a factual report about PSA. I would like you to retract your needless accusation and offensive remark. If you don't, it's also fine, it says much about your total lack of graciousness to acknowledge your mistake

Arapahoe SG

only the brit do well with the diamond of south africa, the people of s africa are still very cham ok, when i went there, at 6pm, you better stay in your hotel, one of the highest crime in the world is in S africa ya. Wine is damn cheap. Like water.

In singapore, we also differentiation among our citizens, those in the east are consider better and richer...those in the west are consider no much standard. Me live in changi and also joo chiat ok.

when the references about the Rich Noth vs the Poor South it is in reference of latitude... and geographical region and population, it is not between a few kilometers.....

i said in many other threads you need to go back to higher education....

you are at best a Sophmore....in greek that is Call a

WISE FOOL - in the sense you read some but no the indepth....

Arapahoe SG

You guys do realise that if encouraging creativity the way the Americans did it is so much better, why did they hire you two who were brought up the competitive but uncreative way ? (Though, if you were not i apologize)

Don't get me wrong i do believe our current education system for Singaporean kids definitely needs work, but even as someone working in the supposedly "creative" industry i'm pretty useless if i don't have a team of tech guys giving me my softwares, my computer and my electricity.

But for every one James Cameron, there are probably a hundred (Just in America alone) who hurt their families and friends by losing everything when they gave up what they did and failed(as in they didn't made it big). Only Cinderella ever gets remembered, not the many maids scrubbing the floors.

While definitely the ideal is for a mix of both creative thinking and fundamentals, personally i would go for a stronger dose of fundamentals.

While definitely the ideal is for a mix of both creative thinking and fundamentals, personally i would go for a stronger dose of fundamentals.

Yes most SG would choose to rely on fundamentals because it is a safed path....imagine if James Cameron in 2005 walked into UOB and ask for 300 million up front to fund for a movie project without guarantee return on profit. Would any senior exe have the foresight to ink the approval if he rely on fundamentals?

You can choose to be negative but there was a couple of points about James Cameron that i had wanted to make....and that is not so much of the millions screen writers fail behind him. But 1st he learned the trade on his own rather than gone to famous film school. 2nd He work towards perfecting his work first rather than on Money.....Last of all you have to look not at how many thousand screen writer fail but rather how many he inspired.

In an interviewed with Charlie Rose, James cameron has told the network that he would not to take any royality or profit on Titanics due to high cost he felt that Titanics as a work of Art and personal satisfaction. But the network turn his gestured down because they thought it would not make any money "Anyway"....but it turn out that he made over and higher than 700 million.....

soul_rage SG

While definitely the ideal is for a mix of both creative thinking and fundamentals, personally i would go for a stronger dose of fundamentals.

You brought in a point here, it's termed as "passion".

How many of us can claim to be working because of our passion for our work, and not because we need a job to feed us? One of my ex-bosses said, "You do not pursue happiness directly, but pursue things that will bring about happiness indirectly". It's similar for $$$ I guess. Too many juniors in my days in university told me that they came to my faculty coz they want to earn lots of $$$. And because of that, they get into the wrong thing (and hence not their interest), and I see many of them not making it.

In Singapore, we are a very pragmatic society, that we don't truly pursue our interests, but rather pursue targets that will most definitely be a job that can feed us. Not that it is wrong, and for the majority of it, I guess it is a more stable path. It is also not encouraged in our system. From young, we attend the same set of education, shut up during class when we were much younger, and our job in class was to listen to the teacher

Over here, seems like kids are encouraged to speak up, take initiatives way early in life. This can consequently lead to them to start thinking early in life, and hence, start exploring their own interests (and not their parents, or the system's interests) much earlier than us.

Arapahoe SG

The big difference in the family defined in American and Asian.

In America, a family is made up of husband, wife, and children up to age of 18. In Asia, a son may be 50 yrs old, he is still the son to his parents and part of the family. With these different definitions come the differences in responsibilities to one another. How the parents teach their children, or how much time they put in depends on what they view as importance for their children, but what the children grow up to be largely depends on the children, you can blame the school, the teachers,…..

It is rightly pointed out that fundamentals are needed before we talk about creativity. We need to know what are in the box before we can think out of the box. Of course, how much fundamentals are needed is debatable. Hold a pen correctly so you will feel less tired in writing, hold the chopstick properly to ensure you don’t drop the food on the table, these are fundamentals.

But there is more to that. you should know what is table manner, when you use chopstick or even fork and spoon. Use your hand to pick up your hamburger, and take bite with your mouth opened as big as possible, hehehe….lick your finger after that, no wonder the European question the american culture.

Take your example, it doesn’t matter how you hold the chalk as long as you know how to DRAW. American emphasis is on result, not the way to achieve. American MNCs retrench thousands of workers in order to achieve results, switch to production in china leaving thousands of contract workers in Indonesia jobless to reduce product cost, and to pay fat bonuses to the CEO…there are other values, such as ethic, morality besides creativity and independence.

It is time to walk outside American and see what civilized world can be.

I would like to draw a few pointers.

P -1

Isn’t it not true that Sun Yet Seng had import in modern value that brought a breath of fresh air to the Patriarch feudal Chinese monarchist society? He had to lead a revolution to get recognition. Isn’t it not true that in order find new ground you have to break from known fundamental…..

Although Singapore is not a feudal society but one could not help by observing the parallel of Patriarch Politics in Singapore society and the expectation of its citizens; while overseas observers has long called Singapore a Lee Dynasty for years. Aren't we all so tired of being Told by some minister?

P - 2

What happen is that kids that grew up in America developed individual opinions much younger than kids grow up in Asia. As such by age 13^th – 14^th , Parents could no longer exercise authoritarian right on the children as if you were in Singapore.

Parenting in the US requires much higher parenting skills sets and responsibilities as compared to Singapore that depend on public social system. I think parenting skills has been largely ignored in Singapore as both parents work and maid was employed. (Sorry different Tangent off topics)

But more importantly relationship between Parents and children took a more “Adulthood” relationship there is less interfering of adult lifestyle. The honoring of parents is shown thru how they lead one’s life.

P -3

I think it is socially wrong to assume because of the independent nature of the society. Kids do not hold family relationship after 18yrs of age. As you would already know either in Thanks Giving and Christmas is a busy travelling period in the US because they returned home to be with their family. It is the same as CNY. (You have to take reference between the sizes of SG vs. US. Is not only some MRT Station away)

Plus it is hard to simplify American cultured because of the diverse ethnicity from immigrant throughout the world as such the single most common Day to mark family, and appreciation is Thanks Giving Day.

(And of course my Chinese co-worker called it Turkey Festival in Cantonese) everyone that move here has a variety in the depth of comprehending the merit of this society. what is important is not what it should "represent" but how one use it to better their lives. So Family A is always different from "B" .

That is why there are so many version of what America should be.....ha ha ha.

Arapahoe SG

You brought in a point here, it's termed as "passion".

yeah..... In one of the meeting open session question. i asked our communication minister How does he perceived to get into the Singapore social fabrics or mind set of encouraging individual to pursue research or interest as compared to financial result?

the reply was.....More Funding.......

A text book answer.

soul_rage SG

the reply was.....More Funding.......

A text book answer.

There was this friend of mine who went to a Meet-the-People session and raised an issue that he was facing.

The MP responded by asking him "So what do you think is a good solution for your problem? I can write in to the govt if you know a solution"

My friend was so pissed that he lambasted the MP at the session. "Why are you asking me for a solution? You guys are paid so much, and you don't even have a solution, and ask me how to solve my own problem? Then why do we need you guys for?"

I really agree. Why do we pay them so much, when they cannot even give any solution?

The issue is simple. My analogy of a 6-star hotel (our leaders' pay) demands 6 star service, so don't expect Singaporeans to think on their own and depend more on themselves, since these jokers are taking so much $$$

soul_rage SG

I would like to draw a few pointers.

P -1

P - 2

P -3

That is why there are so many version of what America should be.....ha ha ha.

USA strength lies in its diversity. A person like sgdiehard, who relies on 3rd party doomsayers, will never be able to comprehend that, but will continue to delude himself that he is in the best place in the world.

My boss was saying that somehow it seems that people who come to USA tend to get Americanized to some extent easily, and able to assimilate into the society relatively easily as compared to other societies (Try Japan, Korea, or Europe for eg)

I think my wife made a very valid observation, when she said that USA is so diverse, attracting talents from all parts of the world, and each talent brings his or her culture to USA. USA then becomes a total mix of cultures, thus resulting in people getting Americanized in a relatively easier way. The American culture is a rojak mix of cultures from all over the world

Some people over in the other side of the globe can argue until the cows come home, that USA will not be a superpower in the future, but the future lies in China. I firmly believe that there will come a time when USA and China will share the superpower status, but China will never become the sole superpower.

The success of China lie in the Chinese race, which is known to be extremely intelligent. The success of USA lie in its diversity. One of my fave philosophies is "Within Chaos lies Order and within Order lies Chaos". China is as much Order as USA is Chaos on the with-out, and vice versa with-in.

sgdiehard SG

I would like to draw a few pointers.

P -1

P - 2

P -3

That is why there are so many version of what America should be.....ha ha ha.

Agree, the idea of a republic was indeed fresh air to the ancient feudal

monarchist China then. Western civilization took a great turn for the better after Renaissance in Europe, and there was much for China, and the world to learn from it.

But what are the fundamentals for a government? In a nutshell, it is to provide a peaceful decent life for its people. Societies used to have kings as their leaders, then government. If kings had done their job well, there would not have been any need for collective governance. Nobody wanted any change during the Kangxi rule, when China was power and prosperous. But in the late 18^th century, Chinese monarchy was rotten to the root, even totally powerless to protect its people from the drug peddling nation. The need to change was imminent. What Sun was looking for in the new government? To provide peaceful and decent life for the people of China. This fundamental doesn’t not change. Unfortunately, Chinese people didn’t have peace until much later.

If people have peaceful and decent life, they would be more skeptical about changes, that is the dilemma Singaporean are facing.

It is important to note that changing government requires majority votes, changing kings and emperors will need a revolution. How do you think changes should take place in Singapore?

Actually all kids have their own opinions, even at very young age. The difference between the east and the west is how they are allowed to express and exercise their individual opinion.

In the east, the adult will say to the young, “I said you can do then you can do” that is authoritarian, “I eat more salt than the rice you eat”, that is arrogant. “if you use your own money you can do what you want”, that is practical; “ be responsible for what you do”, that is advice, “please give due consideration to those affected by your action”, that is asking for a show of kindness. Adults don’t always exercise authoritarian rights.

Can agree that US parents need more parenting skills, because they take on more responsibilities. Many Singaporean parents leave parenting to schools, maids, and grandparents, and hold the government responsible even if they have no babies.

Being independent means you don’t depend on your parents anymore, but how much does one take their parents and siblings into consideration in their decision show how much they care, how much they listen to their parents, when the opinion is diff, show how much respect there are, how much they are prepared to do for their parents, at their own expense, demonstrate how much they honor them. Location does not matter. The strength of bond and love is not demonstrated in a once a year gathering, or how much money or gift given out (Singaporean parents, or urban parents are more likely guilty of this).

Yes, the US is big, there are distinct urban, sub urban and rural population, it is a migrant society, and is thus more diverse, but outside of the US, we understand them by what and how they project themselves, politically, socially and culturally.

longjiangpass SG

Why would he change our whole Singapore heritage to be westernised when he himself is a Chinese? Perhaps he studied in UK before ruling Singapore. But now he find Chinese Singaporeans too westernised and should go to China? While China should come here to make Singapore more Chinese again? It's like that decision to make women come out and work and now he regrets it and also stop at two policy? Now he's trying to reverse everything back to where we were.

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