North Korea: a rebellious angsty teenager

last SG · 2009-05-28T14:08:43+00:00

Do you know their longest range missle can reach Bali? Maybe it doesn't sound that bad, but if you think of it, that means it can reach Singapore, and have f...

richong 3216 SG

Xtreyier: "War must be averted at all cost ......make that phonecall... send emails....overthrow of nutcase kim immediately."

Relax & dont over react to the current situation - as I said in my previous post, the worse case scenario is a conventional conflict & not nuclear.

If you are so desperate then SOS greenpeace for help ha ha! - if not just relax & enjoy the wise cracks of a few dudes.

xtreyier SG

Xtreyier: "War must be averted at all cost ......make that phonecall... send emails....overthrow of nutcase kim immediately."

Relax & dont over react to the current situation - as I said in my previous post, the worse case scenario is a conventional conflict & not nuclear.

If you are so desperate then SOS greenpeace for help ha ha! - if not just relax & enjoy the wise cracks of a few dudes.

Not a problem with me. Maybe I shouldnt care too much and just remain silent. Everyone should just don't bother and let each one kill and destroy each other. It's not us they are killing anyway. Let them all die. Let them rule. We are isolated. We are safe. Nothing can hurt us. We are protected. We can afford not to care.

Sounds like a good philosophy to me. Only if my conscience will allow it. Only if i can look straight into the eye of a victim and their children, and recite such philosophy.....

Ah Chia SG

South Koreans can't even be bothered with DPRKs antics.

Andrew Salmon in Seoul

Despite the rhetorical barrage from the North it was business as usual in Seoul, the South Korean capital, yesterday. South Koreans have grown almost blasé after decades of bellicosity from their communist neighbour, and there was no sign of a human exodus, panic buying or angry demonstrations.

Analysts and policymakers are deeply concerned not just at the dimensions of Pyongyang’s provocations — a nuclear test, missile tests and a virtual declaration of war — but also at their unprecedented speed: all have occurred in the past three days. “Should North Korea provoke us we will counteract sternly,” the South’s Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a statement. President Lee Myung Bak urged a calm response.

South Korean television alternated tributes to the country’s last President, Roh Moo Hyun, who committed suicide on Saturday, with footage of naval clashes that took place on the maritime border between the Koreas in the Yellow Sea in 1999 and 2002.

A handful of South Korean sailors and perhaps a few dozen from the North died in the skirmishes, and many analysts expect the North’s next provocation to be of the same kind

However, with Seoul’s ten million people having lived for decades within range of an estimated 300 North Korean artillery barrels dug in 30 miles north of the city, most people seemed able to separate rhetoric from reality; the leading stock index fell only 0.7 per cent.

“We are not worried,” said Ahn Hae Kyun, a vice-president at Daewoo Securities, drinking with staff at a pub. “We have been living for over 50 years under the same conditions.”

“North Koreans are the same blood as us,” added his colleague, Chris Jung. “They are showing their power to foreigners — not us.”

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I live in Seoul and South Koreans really are not worried about the North. I'm British and I talked to my boyfriend yesterday (Korean) and he wasn't even aware of what was happening. I talked to my colleague today (also Korean) and she said that she wasn't interested in what North Korea was doing

Hannah, Seoul, South Korea

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/

angel7030 SG

South Koreans can't even be bothered with DPRKs antics.

Andrew Salmon in Seoul

A handful of South Korean sailors and perhaps a few dozen from the North died in the skirmishes, and many analysts expect the North’s next provocation to be of the same kind

“We are not worried,” said Ahn Hae Kyun, a vice-president at Daewoo Securities, drinking with staff at a pub. “We have been living for over 50 years under the same conditions.”

“North Koreans are the same blood as us,” added his colleague, Chris Jung. “They are showing their power to foreigners — not us.”

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Hannah, Seoul, South Korea

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/

Same same here mah, when govt said increase this and that, or terrorist go missing, or EPR going up here and there or getting in more foreigners..there is also no uprising or public protest or strike going on...Singaporeans are use to it. Talk so much for what?

Ah Chia SG

Talk so much for what?

Talk too much might get sued.

Ah Chia SG

North Korea and the inevitable

I find it very odd that the mainstream continues to regard North Korea as a crazy or irrational state. The opposite is true. North Korea is acting in a way that is very pragmatic given its international standing and domestic conditions. It is simply wishful thinking to assume North Korea will disarm because others countries have done so in the past. Those countries had many reasons to reverse course – North Korea doesn’t...

http://www.russiatoday.com/About

But if you backtrack to our Independence Day, July 2006, North Korea tested a long-range missile, several—six or seven—medium-range missiles that could hit Japan, and they purposely chose July 4th to get the attention of the Bush administration. This time, they tested the missiles first and then chose our Memorial Day to test their second bomb on May 25th. They do these things with great calculation. This was—this latest bomb test was an obvious attempt to get Obama’s attention...

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/29/north_korea

They do these things with great calculation

I agree with above view completely.

I have studied the moves of North Korea since Oct 2002 and it is quite clear that they timed their moves to USA political activities.

For someone to say that DPRK is a nutcase or Kim Jong Il is crazy only shows their ignorance of the topic.

Ah Chia SG

I will give one example to show how North Korea timed their moves with great effect against USA political activity.

In the morning of March 1, 2003, an American RC-132S spy plane, Cobra Ball, took off from a US airbase in Okinawa, and cruised along the East coast of North Korea collecting electronic signals. The US intelligence suspected that North Korea was about to test a long-range missile and the plane was there to monitor the suspected missile launch.

When the US plane reached a point about 193 km from the coast of North Korea, two MiG-29 and two MiG-21 fighter planes showed up unexpectedly. The North Korean planes approached within 16 m and signaled the US plane to follow them. The US pilot refused to follow the command and left the scene posthaste. The US plane was tailed by the hostiles for about 22 min but let the US spy plane go. There are two key points to be observed here.

First, the hostile planes waited for the US plane at the Uhrang airbase, located about 200 km from the point of air encounter. They knew that the US plane was coming. The North Korean planes flew 200 km to intercept the US plane. Did the US plane see them coming? If it did, why no evasive action? After intercepting the US plane, the hostile planes dogged it for 22 min. Why no American planes for the rescue?

The US crew must have informed the base of the danger they were in, but no action was taken by the base.

If Kim Jong Il had given the command, the MiGs would have shot down the US plane and returned to their base before the US could have scrambled war planes....

http://www.kimsoft.com/2003/nk-war-han.htm

The above writer asked good questions.

Why didn't USA send some jet fighters to confront the North Korean planes?

The reason is because Bush didn't want to risk a confrontation with North Korea.

This is because he was going to launch an attack against Iraq in two week's time and didn't want to risk something with Kim Jong Il in March 2003.

This was an extremely calculated move by Kim Jong Il, when he chose to provoke the USA on March 1 2003.

This is indeed Bush's view according to below source:

Seoul Braced for 'Worst-Case' Korea Scenario

January 16, 2003

...Washington's softer approach followed weeks of rising tension over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions that has distracted the United States as it contemplates using military force to disarm Iraq -- part of what Bush has termed an "axis of evil" along with North Korea and Iran.

A senior U.S. official said the Bush administration's primary concern was trying to keep the nuclear crisis with Pyongyang at bay while it prepares for war with Baghdad...

http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2003nn/0301nn/030116nn.htm#032

There is more evidence of Kim Jong Il's tactical moves, but it would be too tedious to show them here.

jojobeach SG

Kim Jong II is a senile nutcase no doubt.

And to China and Russia.. Kim is just like a retarded cousin.

Arapahoe SG

Kim Jong II is a senile nutcase no doubt.

And to China and Russia.. Kim is just like a retarded cousin.

Ironically.....The Chinese and Russia have no interest to see a unification of the Koreans Peninsula....Korean Nationalism of the Peninsula does not help the 2 states at all. Historically Korean hates the Chinese, Russia and Japanese intervening in their backyard.

Talks to the young local Koreans, they will tell you the American overstayed their welcome and the Chinese interfered.

Kim Jong il is a lowly paid actor. Directors and Producer by both China.

Russia is no longer a commun....but hanging on so that they can influence the region.

Ah Chia SG

Kim Jong II is a senile nutcase no doubt.

And to China and Russia.. Kim is just like a retarded cousin.

Kim Jong il is a lowly paid actors. Directors and Producer by both China.

I don't agree with above views.

jojobeach SG

Talks to the young local Koreans, they will tell you the American overstayed their welcome and the Chinese interfered.

Kim Jong il is a lowly paid actor. Directors and Producer by both China.

Russia is no longer a commun....but hanging on so that they can influence the region.

Ofcors Russia and China don't want to see North Korea liberated.

Where else will they get cheap labours and low cost imports ?

sgdiehard SG

Ofcors Russia and China don't want to see North Korea liberated.

Where else will they get cheap labours and low cost imports ?

China don't get cheap labours from N Korea, and N Korea has nothing to export to China, not even korean ginseng.

China need North Korea as the first line defence against the influence of the US and Japan.

jojobeach SG

China don't get cheap labours from N Korea, and N Korea has nothing to export to China, not even korean ginseng.

China need North Korea as the first line defence against the influence of the US and Japan.

You are kidding me , right ?

Read.

Read.

China needs NKorea as a first line of defence against US influence ? What fool will believe that ?

Do you know the massive amounts of US investments in China ?

Besides.. NKorea can only bark like a dog.

Under current China-Nkorea treaty.. if NKorean sends a nuke over her own borders. China has no obligation to back NKorea.

Arapahoe SG

You are kidding me , right ?

Read.

Read.

China needs NKorea as a first line of defence against US ? What fool will believe that ?

Do you know the massive amounts of US investments in China ?

Well he is not entirely wrong....although we see large amount of investment, but China top military still wary of 2 issue....So i think impart the Chinese govt was convince that the large US investment as a leverage from US interest with China supersede the military aspect.

they quoted

By Yoichi Funabashi

Published on: Jul 12, 2005 SSRC

At the same time, Beijing may also want the U.S. to keep committed to the region as a stabilizer. Beijing has tacitly accepted, if not welcomed, the U.S. military presence and the U.S.-Japan alliance as a “cap on the bottle effect” on Japan since the days of Zhou Enlai. Once Japan is “out of the bottle” and on its own, there would be more potential worries for China

Beijing still has bitter memories of the Korean War, and reunification of the peninsula could extend U.S. influence to China’s border, which was a core reason for China’s entry into that war.

Arapahoe SG

I don't agree with above views.

What don't you agreed you combine 2 person views and reply as one.

In any case.....I personnally believe Kim Jong Ii was going to drop the state of War and unify with the SK. But i think he was navie....and inexperience. At some point the West screwed up that opportunities perharps the Chinese does not want unfication.

Kim Jong-oh, a professor at the Graduate School of International Studies at Hanyang University in Seoul, said in his interview with Ohmynews on July 28 that the hidden intention of China was to maintain the existing state of a divided, denuclearized Korean peninsula. According to this view, the Korean peninsula must be not only divided but also denuclearized. The nuclear armament of North Korea may provoke Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea to be nuclearized. Thus, China would have to play an active role in the six-party talks to prevent nuclear armament

Why i said Kim Jong Il wanted to unify.....Read the 2 actual incidents....these are not from some reviewed......

During the inter-Korea summit in 2000, Kim Dae-jung announced that North Korea would drop its demand for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from South Korea, hitherto a primary condition for negotiating with the South.¹⁶ Kim Jong Il was quoted as saying that he agreed to the continuation of American military presence on the Korean peninsula, even after the two Koreas were unified. This did not charm China much. Its People’s Liberation Army Daily “decried the US troop presence as the biggest obstacle to unification.” ¹⁷ Beijing still has bitter memories of the Korean War, and reunification of the peninsula could extend U.S. influence to China’s border, which was a core reason for China’s entry into that war

On 17 September 2002, Japanese prime minister Junichiro Koizumi visited North Korea to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. To facilitate normalization of relations with Japan, Kim admitted abducting 13 Japanese citizens and issued an oral apology. He attributed the kidnappings to "some people who wanted to show their heroism and adventurism", and avoided taking the blame.

ALL the action indicate that 1st and foremost opening up of North Korea Leader.......there are also views came out from China and the North Korea that they willing to accept the Presence of US Troops so to Deter the Arming of Japan.

Beijing has tacitly accepted, if not welcomed, the U.S. military presence and the U.S.-Japan alliance as a “cap on the bottle effect” on Japan since the days of Zhou Enlai. Once Japan is “out of the bottle” and on its own, there would be more potential worries for China.

By Yoichi Funabashi

Published on: Jul 12, 2005 SSRC

The question is What changes the atitude......??? So i think at this moment Kim is just an actor.......who is the producer and director?

jojobeach SG

If that be true.. then China is pure hypocrisy. On the one hand they use Nkorea to keep foreign military might at bay.. on the other hand, they say to the foreigners ' come come" enrich us with your resources so that you may bring stability to our land.

Kim obviously is too senile to see that coming.

It's about time Taiwan, Japan and South Korea starts nuclearizing their capabilities.

Kim may be just an actor.. but when the actor goes rogue.. the producer and directors will need to take him off the set.

I don't see how China can get US to F off the region when she keeps the Korean Peninsular divided and in perpetual conflict.

Arapahoe SG

Kim obviously is too senile to see that coming.

It's about time Taiwan, Japan and South Korea starts nuclearizing their capabilities.

Kim may be just an actor.. but when the actor goes rogue.. the producer and directors will need to take him off the set.

I don't see how China can get US to F off the region when she keeps the Korean Peninsular divided and in perpetual conflict.

I think the military factions in both China and North korea, kept the region apart. I think he is just an actor of destiny.

as i quoted to Ah Chia.....

Kim Dae-jung announced that North Korea would drop its demand for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from South Korea, hitherto a primary condition for negotiating with the South.¹⁶ Kim Jong Il was quoted as saying that he agreed to the continuation of American military presence on the Korean peninsula, even after the two Koreas were unified

By Yoichi Funabashi

Published on: Jul 12, 2005 SSRC

I just think that someone pull the plug...........? Kim Jong ll when all the way to admit and appologise to Koizumi the kipnaping of its citizens? I am not saying West did not screw up in their responses. why changed the direction from opening up to continuation in re-arming nuke?

angel7030 SG

Talk too much might get sued.

Uncle, u must be joking, talk too much in Singapore might get sued???

I think straight away, we go ISD without trial, what sueing are u talking about??

angel7030 SG

The idealogy is simple, North korea is the gambling table for both China, Russia and the American and maybe some small stake holder like Japan and taiwan. Everyone hold a their ace cards and waiting for show hands. North Korea will do the calling, test nuclear or disarm nuclear, China or Russian will give the instruction depend on various factor including economy, social system, politics arena, trading, and all other world events and problems. America will wait and see the offer and the faces around before calling the decision. If the Commies said,

we want a free trade of commodities in your country

or we need US Fed to lower it interest rate, or we want our students to have a grip on your system or we want an exchange of political prisoners, or we need funds to helps america business in the country etc etc...

Then it up to USA to make a decision in return for disarmament of nuclear and peace return.

xtreyier SG

North Korea vows response if UN imposes sanctions :-

"The world will soon witness how our army and people stand up against oppression and despotism by the UNSC and uphold their dignity and independence."

Activity spotted at two North Korea missile sites

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