Meritocracy In Singapore --- A Mythical Illusion

last SG · 2009-04-27T23:51:22+00:00

At least better than malaysia. http://news.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20090519-142347.html

angel7030 SG

There are some people who keep on defending PAP in this forum, maybe those who keep on defending PAP regime are from the "elite" class.

Just curious.

Otherwise I find it hard for normal singaporean to want to defend PAP, it makes no sense.

Oh! so I am a elite ah?? uncle, do you consider me to be an elite...wow!!! i am classified as elite nia!!! Lai Lai, mister, come come..beautiful gals here..come come..cheap cheap drinks lai lai.../// Am i an elite?

angel7030 SG

There are so many different forms of governance systems in the world.Obviously there will be others to consider and use.

Let's face it,Meritocracy doesn't exist in Singapore anymore.It has been twisted and corrupted to become Elitism and resemble the Caste system used by some ABNN countries.

Huh! what??Caste system, Hello, here is singapore hor, not tamil nadu ya... wha lau, still got Caste system,

Yo, dun mind kind enough to pass me my drink and give me some Panadol/01

skythewood SG

One meritocracy programs are still widely implemented in the civil service sector where classes of degree are much prefered than your quality of works in reality. How ironical for being meritocracy?

really? i thought i see cannot make it people with good degree getting owned by good people with normal degree.

but than again, people will look at the degree and asy it is the decideing factor, ignoring the competency of the guy anyway...

angel7030 SG

really? i thought i see cannot make it people with good degree getting owned by good people with normal degree.

but than again, people will look at the degree and asy it is the decideing factor, ignoring the competency of the guy anyway...

Degree is the entry, after that, all depend on your performances, I have seen diploma or even ITE peoples controlling over degrees holders as their subordinates.

Nevertheless, with a good education, you are able to market yourself better not only in Singapore, but the whole world, without it, you still can do well, but it will take a very less chance and you need to be extremely capable.

good education+good performance, u go to the top

good education+poor performance, u go to the middle

poor education+good performance, u go to the middle or higher

poor education+poor performance, God bless you

Ah Chia SG

uncle, do you consider me to be an elite...wow!!! i am classified as elite nia!!! Lai Lai, mister, come come..beautiful gals here..come come..cheap cheap drinks lai lai.../// Am i an elite?

Don't insult women lah, guy want to pretend female.

Pui.

angel7030 SG

Don't insult women lah, guy want to pretend female.

Pui.

yak!

Camb76 SG

You've got the same problem all over the world, not just Singapore lah! In the US, UK, Australia, HK, Malaysia etc. etc., the top students come disproportionately from upper income households. It's just a fact of life, unless you want us to go communist.

High academic achievers all over the world tend to come from weathier households for 2 reasons. First, as some have already pointed out in earlier posts, wealthier parents can afford to spend more money on their children's education, like extra tuition. In the US and UK, it takes the form of private schools, as public state schools are generally considered inferior in quality.

Second, wealthier parents also tend to be better educated, and they tend to actively encourage their children's intellectual development like buying them books when they are young and imparting their own knowledge to their children when talking to them.

Is this unfair? Yes, you can see it in that perspective. But it's a fact of life, just like how some people are better looking or some are taller. Life is full of unfairness. You cannot prevent parents from giving their children advantages. In fact, all nurturing parents WANT their children to succeed. The more weathy just tend to have more resources to lavish directly and indirectly on their children to help them succeed.

Of course, the Singapore government scholarship system could be improved to help remedy the inherent academic bias caused by social forces. I personally agree with that. The only point I want to make is that you can never totally eliminate the bias that a disproportionate number of scholarship holders will come from weathier households. This is not just a Singapore issue. It happens all over the world. Just look at the backgrounds of Rhodes Scholars to Oxford, for example.

Atobe SG

If wealth can produce genius, then LKY's generation is an anomaly.

His father was a salesman and his mother was just a regular housewife - both making a living to support a big family.

His was a story that was common amongst Singaporeans during the days before and after WW-2.

The point now is that 'Meritocracy' has been used to create a class division - the Rulers and the Ruled.

Even in the supposedly Classless society of Karl Marx's communist socialist state - there are those who are more equal than every average equal soul.

Fugazzi SG

The parable in Orwell's Animal Farm rings true - if one is awake lor, sadly i have doubts lar

xtreyier SG

Sigh...when, when, will we grow up?

What is 'equality'?

How can there be equality when a women gives birth and men can't?

How can there be equality when one drives a car and one takes a bus?

How can there be equality when one has a well paying job and another a roadsweeper?

How can there be equality when one has a fat bank account and another not even a dollar in his pocket?

Grow up. Equality in a society means the adherence of laws and opportunities for all, regardless of rich or poor, black or white, male or female, etc.

Shall we create a truly 'equal' society? Men and women dressed the same, both give birth, all work the same job, all walk to work, all go to same school, ban TV, religion, recreation for its diversiveness. Is this the 'equal' society whiners want?

Are we an equal society be definition of laws? Look around, Are there any laws that differentiates one group of members from another? We may be a 3rd world country, but our laws and opportunities are not different from 1st world. Are there any laws that say the rich will be judge differently from the poor? Are there any laws that say a black skinned testimonial holds lesser value than a white or yellow skinned?

Can women vote? Can women go to school? Can a chinese get scholarship from a govt? Can an indian or japanese from a different caste move up in society? Can a different religion build their religious citadels? Do i need to go on?

Who is more 'equal' than other citizens? All I know is that we are all equal, our PM only a first amongst equals, the cabinet, our elected representatives and judges respected only.

With such equalities, therefore the opportunity to either excel or fail in life lies with the citizens - us, ourselves. Is there a need to moan, whine, divide, create chaos, spead hate?

PS: Stop to think as well about 'meritocracy' in our society as well. True meritocracy is blind and knows not socialist, democratic or altrusic terms. Only the best is selected.

How often had our society decisions needed to based their awards of 'meritocracy' on socialist and altrusic terms? If pure 'meritocracy' is used, many more of our citizens may NOT have benefitted in this globalized world.

Fugazzi SG

xtreyier, my guess is when parents, bring up intelligent children , otherwise, the vicious cycle of ... will just go n on, forget about society, schools or university, - they teach , yes, knowledge - good for work, good to make money lor, but to have a sea-change in areas that need transformation it has to start from intellegence lar, its my stance, i could be 'rite', i could ne 'wrong' - its my predicament, thanks

PoThePanda01 SG

some of TS points are valid. However have u ever wondered why THEY are living in the private housing and why YOU are living in the HDB? This is because they ( the previous generation) had worked hard and reaped the bounty. This bounty is now being spent on their offspring to increase their chance to succeed in life.

And isn't this how life is? Whatever you do in life affects your children the most. When you work ur way from rag-to-riches, you are probably already at middle-approaching old age. Can't really enjoy that much.. Your children would spend the first half of their lives in luxury though, and then most probably spend the other half of their lives in luxury too. Why do u begrudge the privileged of what their parents worked hard for? You should instead be working hard so your children can join the ranks of the 'elites'.

Meritocracy is mostly based on the principle of 'fairness'. If you're good, you'll be given a chance to succeed right?

So what is this " fairness " ? what is fair? Who determines it? Where is the line defining "unfair advantage" being drawn at? Is it wrong to capitalize on my father's hard work..? Not everyone can be like Bill Gates, who has already decided to donate his whole fortune to charity after he dies, rather than leaving it behind for his children.

Why cant rich kids get scholarships if they can make the grade? While it is true that the less-fortunate might be more deserving, denying people of scholarships because of their economic status runs counter to the very idea of meritocracy. How is it being fair? In the end, you can never please everyone.

I do not support elitism. But given the nature of humans, i believe that even if the whole system was resetted and given a clean slate, there will still be a few individuals rising up to take the status of 'elites'. So whats the point of doing that? Its being unfair to those of the past generation who already worked hard to ensure the good life of their descendants.

This is the immutable nature of human society. I suggest that instead of ranting against it, join it instead. (:

PS. i do not belong to the group of people that might be termed as 'elite' . Well.. my family was very rich in the past, but unfortunately the family fortune was wiped out in the 97 crisis and we never really recovered. FYI i DO live in a hdb now (:

Please provide proof that their parents were mainly rags-to-riches stories.

I do not dispute that you have the rights to spend what you work for,but when you use that advantage to propel yourself into a position of power,it would do these Elites well to remember that this is not an entitlement.They would do well to remember that they are not God,and that we can tear them down from their pedestals easily,even if by 1 person's power alone.

They would also do well to cut out the arrogance and imcompetence they are continually showing us.

Quote "Meritocracy is mostly based on the principle of 'fairness'. If you're good, you'll be given a chance to succeed right?"

The above sentence is bullsh!t in Singapore nowadays.

PoThePanda01 SG

1. A nation needs intelligent people for its administration.

2. The rich has the resources to tutor their children best, and pass on their experiences or aquaintances to them.

3. Such children will have a headstart in life compared to the middle classes or poor in our equal society.

4. PSC grants are but a way to bind such rich kids to serve our nation.

5. Meanwhile, being a socialist democracy, the state provides the best tutors possible to train up our middle class and poor children - U grade teachers even for primary schools, to be on par with the rich.

6. Ultimately, it is our children and parents who must grasp such opportunities offered by our society. Meritocracy is blind to all, only offered to the best, regardless of rich or poor, black or white, and will never deny it to anyone on socialist or altrusic terms.

7. Singapore is an open and equal society, and one social leveller is the army as well as civil society groups for everyone to mix and get aquainted for a duration if not for life.

8. Political leadership is not the only goal in life. If everyone is a politician, Singapore will be a boring state. We need engineers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, as well as people of the arts and non-academic professions - music, films, literary works, sports, etc.

9.Threadstarter is too narrow minded and had failed to see the wider picture of our society and its realities for a democratic state to function.

He focussed only on leadership and the presumed elitism attached. Singapore is more than just politics, politics which we have the power of vote to change, but only when we look on the wider societal frame and opportunities given to everyone to excel, as well as the integrity calibre of the leaders or the lack of it as a determination factor.

10. TS best grow up and look further than the length of his nose and open his eyes wide if he intends to serve society. Singaporeans are no longer the uneducated of yesterday.

Even a roadsweeper may have an N level cert, something i guess the TS lacks. Education is not about earning big bucks, but a greater understanding of our world and the environment around us, and how we can expand/improve upon it, which is one way we will be elevated financially if we put such improvements to use and is recognised by the free market for it.

11. Do channel such energy of angst, belligerance, self frustrations and anarchy to better use such as sports or charitable works which may benefit mankind, if not our society.

5)Define "best tutors".I believe all of us at one time or the other have had our fair share of horror teachers,and worst of all ELITE teachers.

6)That's bull,you didn't bother to read my post,did you?

7)Social leveller is the army?Definitely!Jobs For Foreigners/PRs/New Citizens , NS For Singaporeans!

9)You say i am narrow-minded?I wonder who are the ones constantly being talked about as "living in their ivory towers"?

10)Har?Speak simple English?What is your point?Just want to make a personal attack?

11)Sure i will,i am thinking of channeling it all towards the Pro-Foreigner MCYS Mini-star.I'm sure he'll appreciate the news inches. :D

PoThePanda01 SG

While I agree with the premise, the OP is a patronising jerk.

Who or what is OP?

PoThePanda01 SG

One meritocracy programs are still widely implemented in the civil service sector where classes of degree are much prefered than your quality of works in reality. How ironical for being meritocracy?

That's not Meritocracy.That's Elitism.

PoThePanda01 SG

I feel you have advanced a rather well-rounded point.And i agree with what you say.What i am against is those Elites who feel that they are entitled by their birthright to be where they are,and instead of assisting those who approach them for assistance,they instead show their Elite,Uncaring Faces and are arrogant,condescending towards these normal Singaporeans.

Don't take the people for stupid,coz we are NOT.

likedatosocan SG

agree..but is there anyway or any system that can take its place?

someone once said,

anything is possible.

that is from him, not me.

Daddy!! SG

Quote "Meritocracy is mostly based on the principle of 'fairness'. If you're good, you'll be given a chance to succeed right?"

till the day i step into my grave, i will still ask the question, based on meritocracy, HChing should not receive her award. But how / why did she receive an award to recognise the damage which she did to singapore?

Daddy!! SG

i could only guess the answer: if in the USA, bankers could be paid lots of bonus even when they made huge losses, so could we in Singapore reward losers.

skythewood SG

Quote "Meritocracy is mostly based on the principle of 'fairness'. If you're good, you'll be given a chance to succeed right?"

You can question the committee that gave her the award, and they will give you a fair answer. If you are thinking that she is just a bimbo that get into high places because of her connection, you are wrong.

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