Setting record straight on Citi investment

last SG · 2009-05-09T16:58:49+00:00

Look don't take my word for it. Read the Reuters article below for example. Do your own research. Just do it intelligently and fairly, instead of having an a...

Camb76 SG

Jojobeach,

I have laid out all the facts. If you cannot understand them or are blinded by your biases, then that is your choice. As I said before, I had no political agenda when I put down the facts of the investment. In fact, I though people in Singapore would be happy. Oh was I wrong!

It was Atobe who introduced the political agenda. I am simply challenging him about them. He can challenge my Citi facts, calling me a PAP propaganda mole and a liar, and I can't say anything about him? I am challenging him. Given his moral outrage about Singapore politics, what is he doing about it in the real world? If he is too cowardly to do anything, then he is an ATOBE. He fits his name.

jojobeach SG

Jojobeach,

I have laid out all the facts. If you cannot understand them or are blinded by your biases, then I don't know what more to do. As I said before, I had no political agenda when I put down the facts of the investment. In fact, I though people in Singapore would be happy. Oh was I wrong!

It appears there are lots of people who derive joy from thinking that their national wealth is falling! They would rather believe that than the facts.

Dude.. when was the last time you went back to SG ?

If it's your retirement money stuck with the gahmen, and every year they make more and more excuses to make it difficult for you to withdraw it.. While you helplessly see time and again they unilaterally decide to squander away the funds.. on some failed investments..Will you not get pissed ?

Perhaps you may want to be a little more connected to the peasants you so seek to enlighten.. a monk who lives a high life.. is one who is a holy hypocrite... no matter what comes out of his mouth is but animal dung no matter how sweet it smells.

jojobeach SG

Do you even KNOW what is a GIC ?

jojobeach SG

Jojobeach,

You have laid out ALL the facts ??? Are you sure ? Is one part of a fact.. considered a true fact ?

Camb76 SG

I only sought to lay out the facts with no political agenda. That is all. I did not introduce the politics into this. If you or others have a political axe to grind, don't insult me in the process. If you do, don't expect me to take it sitting down. If you want to complain, there are lots of other things to complain about. For instance, the UBS deal is still underwater on a mark-to-market basis.

And yes, GIC is the Government of Singapore Investment Corp.

jojobeach SG

And yes, GIC is the Government of Singapore Investment Corp.

And what does the GIC do ?

Atobe SG

I didn't start this post to defend the PAP government's policies. I really don't care much for Singapore politics as I don't live there anymore, and when I did live there I didn't feel strongly about the politics anyway. I started this post to offer interested readers the facts of GIC's Citi investment because there has been a proliferation of ignorant speculation about how much money that investment has lost or not lost in this forum. I have laid all the facts on the table, so every reader can judge for himself/herself. If Citi common stock falls below US$3.25 then the investment has lost money (ignoring the 7% interest raturn last year). If it is above US$3.25 then it has made money. If you want to criticise, at least criticise using facts instead of fantasies.

You continuously claim that you did not start this thread to defend the PAP government's policies, and you claim you do not really care much for Singapore politics as you do not live here anymore.

Why did you even bother to start this thread at all ?

Was it not your intention to be condescending towards Singaporeans - to teach Singaporeans to be satisfied that the Singapore Government's GIC had made a good investment decision - that the shares in Citi had dropped to US$0.09 a share on March 5, and have since recovered to US$3.81 - AND that Singaporeans are too stupid to note the tremendous percentage recovered except for you who is living out of Singapore ?

Are you qualified to make a comment, when you have no answer to all the facts that have been posted across Page 1 through 3 that has practically exposed your quirky condescending ideas of financial gains ?

But I do want to comment about some of the posters on this forum who express such outrage about the PAP government's policies, such as the one who calls himself "Atobe". Atobe, in your statements you have impressed me with your moral outrage about the PAP government. Clearly in your eyes the Singapore government is oppressive and authoritarian. You spoke admiringly of the freedom and democracy found in the US and UK.

The freedom and rights found in Western nations did not come easy or cheap. At one time or another, thousands of people were ready to risk life and limb to fight for their rights. "Give me liberty or give me death!" was a popular slogan of the American War of Independence. These countries enjoy the liberty they now do because many courageous patriots were willing to die to achieve it.

So do you have the courage to match your convictions about the oppression you see in Singapore? Or is your moral outrage limited to anonymous Internet postings? All talk and no action. If you really feel soooo strongly about the political oppression in Singapore, then you are a coward if you don't dare to do anything tangible about it. When are you organising public protests outside Parliament? When are you forming a political party to overthrow the PAP? When are you standing for election as an MP candidate?

As one who have now stated that you no longer reside in Singapore, and do not care much for Singapore politics - are you in any position to comment about anyone in this Speaker's Corner ?

Your present involvement in the current politics of the present Singapore issues have already clearly expose the hypocrite in your person.

Your inability to provide any reasonable counter to all that have been raised except to indulge in personal attack can only confirm you that is self-indulgent, with a shallow and petty mind to boot.

Do you have the balls to go along with your angry Internet postings? I doubt it. I believe you are too gutless and stupid to do anything that counts about Singaporean politics. You are a lion in the Internet but a tiny mouse in the real world. Let me tell you something, the world doesn't owe you anything. And if you are gutless and stupid, you will get nothing out of this world. Why are you so afraid? Too afraid to lose your pathetic 3-room HDB flat and taxi driver job?

The Mexican revolutionary Zapata famously declared that "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees." You are one who lives on his knees, and you are too gutless and stupid to do anything about it.

This is all about Singapore Politics - did you not say that you "do not care much about Singapore politics" ?

What does it matter to a hypocrite like you whether I have the balls to be involved publicly in Singapore Politics ?

You are one amongst the many whom the PAP Government see as "QUITTERS".

Even as much as the remaining Singaporeans resent this term applied to fellow Singaporeans who decide to live abroad - it is doubtful that anyone can be generous to condescending ex-Singaporeans like you, who think that living abroad makes you superior in intelligence than anyone in Singapore.

Your condescending self is revealed in the disdain that you show in your remarks towards the Singaporeans working as taxi drivers and living in HDB 3-Room units - what have you against these "Singaporean Heartlanders" ?

What makes you even think that I am residing in Singapore ?

Only a fool will know that a gutless person is too stupid to do anything else, as it takes too much effort for an inexperience loud mouth like you to know that it requires more then guts and intelligence to resolve simple arithmetic sums - let alone to solve political issues.

For an amateur that claims no interests in politics - especially Singapore Politics - what do you know about Zapata - the Mexican Revolutionary ?

Is he a close acquaintance of yours, or did you participate in his Mexican revolution ?

You could be more honest with yourself - as by your standard displayed, you must have picked him up in some cartoon comics that your mind is only capable of absorbing the intricacies of a Mexican revolution.

Camb76 SG

The GIC is the investment arm of the Singapore government. It is what is known as a Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF). As it was established to invest the foreign reserves of the country, it holds all it's investments outside Singapore with no domestic holdings whatsoever. It is legally incorporated as 3 companies, GIC Asset Management, GIC Special Investments and GIC Real Estate. It therefore invests across the whole spectrum of financial assets - public equities, bonds, credit, commodities, private equity and real estate.

Atobe SG

Jojobeach,

The data that you have offered in every single reply are flawed.

Can "flawed data or statements or calculations" be accepted as facts ?

It must be some kind of flawed foreign environment that you are living in to accept such an outcome in financial reasoning.

Did I introduce any political agenda, or was it not all about those dubious "facts" that you have offered and have been systematically shown to be flawed ?

Why pull out the "Political Agenda" when you are clearly beaten ?

Were you named as a "PAP propaganda mole and a liar" in any of my responses from Page 1 to 4 of this thread ?

I am surprised that you have been able to read more into the clearly printed words.

You certainly are a remarkable person to read exceptionally well - besides having a flair in idiot's maths.

If you prefer another name change - you could adopt the other fool's name as the "Oxford Mushroom" that was eaten up by me most of the time in this Speaker's Corner - for the similar idiocy that parallel yours.

The rarefied air in the halls of Cambridge and Oxford must have become rabid to have produced fools who believe themselves to be superior beings.

Two such over glorified fools running the GIC are enough for Singaporeans to stomach, we do not need any more from Cambridge or Oxford.

jojobeach SG

Wah you copy and paste all these from the GIC website ah.. Very smart leh.

Xiao di di.. come tell jie jie which school you studying.. I go visit you... I go there to smack your head help you wake up your idea. OK ? Good.

Please ah.. don't xia suay us overseas Singaporeans hor...but if you already ex your SG citizenship.. don't go around telling your origin is Singapore ah....

Atobe SG

And you know what "Atobe" stands for?

Anonymous Timid OBtuse Eunuch. A-T-OB-E.

Anonymous because you only dare to complain behind the anonymity of the Internet.

Timid because you lack the courage of your convictions.

Obtuse because you are stupid. More than that you are willfully ignorant. Black is white, and white is black for you so long as it fits your view point.

"Eunuch" because, need I say more?

Thanks for the intensity of the reply - as it provided a barometer of the effectiveness of my replies to your type of "facts" offered by you.

Since you have accepted your political involvement despite your hypocritical claims of having no interests in Singapore Politics, we might as well be more honest about your true position in so stoutly defending GIC's investment in Citibank.

You forget that an Eunuch will never dare to be different from those whom he serve, and can find as many creative ways to accept what his Leaders have done - to the extent of claiming "profits are made" even when "clear losses have been suffered".

When an Eunuch cannot achieve his goals and must show results, the Eunuch can be ruthlessly abusive - as his life is all about submission, swallowing of his pride without a "dick" - can we expect him to be anymore honest about his entire complete being ?

We can empathize with the Eunuch's frustrating position in having to convince the minions that the GIC investment in Citi is sound and is making profit with every ups and downs of the share value at the NYSE.

Surely, we can empathize with the Eunuch's need to hide the facts that our original Preferred Shares were paid for at US$26.35 a share and is now reclassified as Ordinary Shares valued at US$3.25.

Yes, we must rejoice with the obedient Eunuch's way of calculating - that these Ordinary Shares have risen from US$3.25 a share to US$3.81 since the last time you noticed it - and we should forget that we had paid an original price of US$26.35 for these shares.

Did you forget that you still have balls even as an Eunuch, except that your dick has been decapitated and kept in a bottle as a keepsake ?

Now we can understand why you have been so confused - with your displayed inability to differentiate the obvious nuances in the financial numbers, besides your confusion with the obvious loss suffered by an Eunuch.

Without the "key" in your hand - can you possibly open the door and see daylight ?

Camb76 SG

Dear Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch,

Thank you for regaling me with your Internet exploits. So what blow have you struck for freedom and democracy in the real world lately? All talk and no action. When it comes to doing things that could make an actual difference in the world, you are impotent.

If you are such a fantastic debater, why don't you debate a PAP MP? When are you organising a public protest outside Parliament? When are you forming your political party to overthrow the hated PAP? Seems your moral outrage is restricted to the Internet only. Gutless.

A fierce lion in the Internet but a timid mouse in the real world. You get all puffed up with self-righteous indignation and moral outrage in your anonymous Internet postings. You need to feel like a hero online because you are a loser in the world outside your 3-room flat.

When you drive around Singapore in your taxi, you see all these younger people driving BMWs and Porsches. You cry inside silently. Why not me? Why do I lead a life of desperation and smallness? Meanwhile, you can't even save enough to get a Vietnamese mail-order bridge. Instead, you got to go to Batam fornightly to satisfy your physical urges. There in Batam, like in the Internet, you can act out your fantasies as an influential and heroic person.

You should have listened to your mother to study hard while you were in school, instead of running off to sniff glue in the alleyways. The glue sniffing only exacerbated your natural obtusity.

You deserve your name "Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch". Gutless and stupid ATOBE.

But you still have a chance to turn your life around! Yes you do! Galvanise your political passions and moral outrage! Go and organise a public protest. Confront the nearest PAP MP and demand he answer for the crimes of his party! Down with the PAP!

What was that? Too gutless and stupid to fight for your rights against what you consider an oppressive government? Then you deserve the government you have.

jojobeach SG

Dear Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch,

You should have listened to your mother to study hard while you were in school, instead of running off to sniff glue in the alleyways. The glue sniffing only exacerbated your natural obtusity.

You deserve your name "Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch". Gutless and stupid ATOBE.

What was that? Too gutless and stupid to fight for your rights against what you consider an oppressive government? Then you deserve the government you have.

Tsk tsk Cambie,

How unbecoming of you. Hidding behind your pc throwing air punches at people who points out your mistakes.... grow up will ya ?

Obviously.. your big ego.. got chewed up by Atobe.. eh ?

It's ok.. afterall.. your postings are anonymous.. nobody knows who this Camb loser is in real life.

But that's ok. We still love you....... in the virtual world... that is.

Atobe SG

Dear Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch,

You should have listened to your mother to study hard while you were in school, instead of running off to sniff glue in the alleyways. The glue sniffing only exacerbated your natural obtusity.

You deserve your name "Anonymous Timid Obtuse Eunuch". Gutless and stupid ATOBE.

What was that? Too gutless and stupid to fight for your rights against what you consider an oppressive government? Then you deserve the government you have.

The bitter venom that you have displayed cannot hide the hypocrisy of your petty self-indulgent persona that surely have been scarred as never before by anyone.

Have you decided to abandon your stated position in not caring too much about Singapore Politics, or simply putting up a brave act to salvage the remaining millimeters of your shortened potency ?

The only impotent eunuch that we see is yourself - in the self-inflicted role of a PAP Government apologist - attempting to cover up the US$6.8 Billion mistake with an impotent financial arithmetic model, created in a fool's mind that cannot even convince the simple thinking taxi drivers and HDB 3-room residents in Singapore.

The potency of your brain must have been affected by your hopeless position as a PAP eunuch with a truncated manhood.

What else can we expect from your aimless and impotent verbiage that can hardly focus any rebuttal to the clear and simple details countering your idiot's financial arithmetics ?

What does it matter to you what is being done here in Singapore ?

Is there any shame to being a taxi-driver staying in a 3-Room HDB unit ?

What makes you think that taxi-drivers in Singapore envy the owners of the luxury cars - when they are driving those expensive cars daily and making money at the expense of taxi passengers, while the cost of these cars are borne by the Government owned taxi companies ?

It makes it doubly satisfying that this Singaporean has the mental ability to scar the mind of a petty, self-indulgent loud mouth - that is as potent as a twat with a truncated piece - existing in the back waters of Cambridge.

With a truncated piece to show, it will be convenient when Shariah Law takes hold of your Cambridge environment.

Hold on to the remaining millimeters, and try not to lose anymore by releasing the hot air that you are only capable of making.

deepak.c SG

OMG!!!

The used panties sniffer is back.

Cram SG

The latest. Can anyone enlighten us on how much profit/loss Temasek made in the deal? These days it's becoming difficult to differentiate between loss and profit, thanks to new age arithmetic. :)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUY063JtjfFI&refer=home

Chew Bakar SG

The latest. Can anyone enlighten us on how much profit/loss Temasek made in the deal? These days it's becoming difficult to differentiate between loss and profit, thanks to new age arithmetic. :)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUY063JtjfFI&refer=home

Need a magic mirror.

angel7030 SG

Temasek is just cleaning up it financial position, there will be changes and re focusing, you should give them a time to reshuffle. Anyway, everybody here is ok, eating, sleeping, spending and still afford to do shopping. No big deal on temasek, and if you are a good investors, now is the time to buy some of their products.

Atobe SG

You must be still drunk from last night encounters at your Bar.

Are you dreaming that the cash register at your Bar has been ringing so loudly all night, and drowning out the loud silence from your near empty Bar ?

Yes, everyone is sleeping well in Singapore:

jojobeach SG

Sista.. you very lucky...your bar is recession poof.

But not everyone as lucky as you hor....

Economy goes down.. alcohol consumption goes up hor...

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