The 10 highest paid politicians in the world

last SG · 2009-04-02T17:50:56+00:00

got kelong also useless, no fish to catch leonly buy fishes n put in the kelong then say "our FISHES"similar to our FT?

speakup- SG

Most importantly, introducing competition to our public transportation is not a good idea, because you can see that our transport operators collaborate to ensure that they remain profitable. There is not much competition in terms of taking a bus from Toa Payoh to a specific part of Ang Mo Kio, after all, the division of territory results in SMRT buses serving the north mostly, while other areas are served by SBSTransit. Therefore, there is almost no competition per-se.

Agreed. Cartels or oligopolies or conspiracy of some sort would inevitably lead to greater inefficiency and greater exploitation of the masses. Adam Smith recognized that 'people of the same trade seldom meet for merriment or diversion but their meeting always ends in some conspiracy against the public or some contrivence to raise prices.' This is certainly true and if its happening then there is definitely measures to be taken to stop anti-competitive behaviour which is undoubtedly detrimental. This however should not discredit the idea of liberalising the market but rather we should correct the areas of market failure to make sure the benefits come out as planned.

Competition only benefits for competitive products, such as electronic products, because they are almost perfect substitutes of one another, and companies must consistently upgrade in order to keep their consumers. This serves as beneficial to both consumers and the general progress of technology.

This is not true because for markets whereby there are non-homogenous products, product differentiation account for a large part of competitive strategies. In terms of public transport such differentiation can manifest itself as more comfortable seats, shorter waiting time etc so it should still yield a beneficial result from a competitive environment.

soul_rage SG

Me 20 going 21yo, so if you are older, me call you Uncle, if you are younger me call you Siao didi. By the way, when you call me aunty, i did complain so much mah, just that i look down on my front and see that mine is still very premature to be an aunty.

That 33% is the vote, not unhappiness,..if you do a survey on the gross happiness of the people, GHP, u may get a different answer.

Peoples all over the world is always complaining about their govt, normal if Singaporeans is doing that, u will learn that in pyschology that peoples tend to blame their rulers for this and that...there is no pad in the back for politicians, but on the hindsight, life goes on, and deep down each individual, we should agree that what our govt did is so far so good.

Yea you very young lah. Am 11 years your senior.

Uncle and Aunty very unglam. I still (hoping) am a young trendy yuppie.

Yes lah, everyone complains. It's normal. But still, I stick to my argument that they are too overpaid, and there are too many of them. Reduce the numbers they have, and you still have your good education.

Am getting interested actually to visit your pub one day just to see how your business is doing. It would be a learning experience for me as well on how a young lady like you is so 'garang'.

soul_rage SG

So shouldn't you look at the prospect of a non-profit organization, assuming it's run sufficiently well in terms of management, and is more focused on the other objective, keeping transport costs affordable?

I said almost perfect. Everything is different, because product differentiation is a psychological form of differentiation. At times, a product is judged to be better than another due to marketing efforts. But most times, competition spurs improvements in terms of per-dollar-return for consumers', and for the general progress of the sector.

However, we are talking about real private sector here. Again, for public transportation, I feel its different, and indeed, I believe there is a cartel here, which is something like an open secret (everyone knows, but cannot say)

eagle SG

Yea you very young lah. Am 11 years your senior.

Uncle and Aunty very unglam. I still (hoping) am a young trendy yuppie.

Am getting interested actually to visit your pub one day just to see how your business is doing. It would be a learning experience for me as well on how a young lady like you is so 'garang'.

5 years my senior

means I hv only 5 more years to achieve 5 figures :(

bynari SG

Yes perhaps it is possible to monitor the ministers but who would do it? And how? checking every bank transaction? every email sent? Any idea how much resources would be wasted on all these? Besides having a death penalty for corrupt politicians is like giving you 24 strokes of the cane for petty theft. Sure, its easy to make every crime liable for death penalty but that would not be fair as the punishment must be in tandem with the respective crime committed. Im not a law student so i cant argue on the technicalities of why certain laws are as such and whether they work or are they necessary. What i can say is based on economic reasoning that simply deterrence works on the basis of rationality and opportunity costs. It is unfair to accredit the failure to impose a death penalty on themselves as out of greed. Besides there is a parliament and the court to go through. Laws dont just get written by one person.

If corruption is impossible to discover, then cases like Suharto, Thaksin, Chen Sui Bian, CPC members and Abe government would probably have never been exposed. You need expertise in this area to be able to do a credible job, obviously you don't expect me to tell you how to design a nuclear reactor if I don't have knowledge of nuclear physics.

I am not sure about you equating government corruption to petty theft, what's next, you going to equate drug dealers to chewing gum peddlers? In fact the effects of corruption is more widespread than a drug pusher selling to an addict, it affects the lives of every Singaporean.

e.g. A Minister taking bribe for accepting non-performing weapons in the military, the malfunctioning weapons can cause death to lots of servicemen and could even cause an unfavourable outcome in a war. The effects of a drug pusher is just on the individual itself and probably on afew victims of robberies till he is caught. What about a Minister accepting bribes to accept lower quality construction materials for public housing, if the building collapses how many lives are affected.

The laws in Singapore isn't actually humane like other developed countries, where death penalties are abolished, we have death penalties for drug addicts, why not death penalties for corrupt politicians. Who in the world imposes law to curtail himself for the benefit of his citizens? Adverse selection in the government?

Laws don't get written by just "One Person"? I think you lack knowledge with regards to the general history of Singapore.

soul_rage SG

5 years my senior

means I hv only 5 more years to achieve 5 figures :(

Don't be discouraged.

We are oppressed workers for the duration of the bond. The moment my bond completed, I switch to a position in a US MNC that doubled my previous salary

Continue to build your portfolio, and learn. You are at the learning stage, like what I told my sworn sister. Once your arsenal is ready, you should have no problems commanding a much higher pay.

You should be able to speed past me when you are at my current age. After all, I advocate improvements with each generation. You should do better than me, and the next junior should do better than you.

Alternatively, do something with that tuition idea of yours, and become a boss like our angel7030 :)

eagle SG

Don't be discouraged.

We are oppressed workers for the duration of the bond. The moment my bond completed, I switch to a position in a US MNC that doubled my previous salary

Continue to build your portfolio, and learn. You are at the learning stage, like what I told my sworn sister. Once your arsenal is ready, you should have no problems commanding a much higher pay.

Alternatively, do something with that tuition idea of yours, and become a boss like our angel7030 :)

Me already in US MNC, and from what I know, this isn't an MNC that will offer 5 figures in 5 years time :(

Only advantage is that I have sufficient free time to do other activities (to earn).

Me is definitely looking at the tuition area. Not just teaching only. Not traditional way... Need to try out first... So far, only 1 to 2 others are doing similar things locally, and only 1 other has successfully implemented it... Good thing is... what I planning is of a different subject from what has been done :D

speakup- SG

Product differentiation can be categorized into both imaginary differences and real differences. Psychological falls under imaginary whereas the physical improvements i mentioned falls under real. And honestly there is not much marketing to do for the public transport sector and even if there is, its just damaging competition that drives down profits which i believe companies would avoid (especially since you believe its a duopoly).

Honestly i dont have much knowledge about non-profit organizations or how they run. Maybe if you could enlighten me on this aspect i can offer my two cents worth on its viability.

Put in an independent auditing committee for certain aspects of our government.

Just as what private corporations do to ensure good corporate governance, we should perhaps have an independent committee to perform a check on our leaders. (since there is no opposition in place to do that)

This would minimize unjustifiable rewarding to their basic nature of greed.

This might actually work but i dont know what the government would think of it (i think both you and i know the answer). I would say it is a good idea but its contentious whether its feasbile on the counts of a detailed CBA(cost-benefit analysis). It would only be beneficial if the costs of creating such a council can ensure tax-payers get better 'care' from the government be it handouts, subsidies, upgrades, building of amenities or something along those lines. In my opinion such a council, even if established is likely to fall under partial (if not complete) influence of the government and at the end of the day defeats the purpose. Even if the council can keep the pay of governments in check, can we ensure that the millions saved would be put to better use? (of which i believe is you primary concern)

Lets say you confer the council some power to assert what you believe should be done with the money instead. But this will complicate matters as its seemingly creating a government above the government and the cycle just goes all over again. Democracy is based on putting your faith in a representative government to run the country on your behalf. And to a certain extent i still think that at the end of the day, its more important to a certain extent be content with what the country has given you rather than criticize individual policies. Yes we need to take ownership and speak up (hence my nickname) when necessary, but sometimes things are just like that. No system is perfect honestly. (i know i sound a bit resigned to life but sometimes thats just the way life is)

soul_rage SG

Me already in US MNC, and from what I know, this isn't an MNC that will offer 5 figures in 5 years time :(

Only advantage is that I have sufficient free time to do other activities (to earn).

Actually, you need to jump.

Staying in 1 company is not going to give you leaps and bounds on your salary, because to them your labour cost is already factored at your level into their income statement. Getting them to increase your labour cost is difficult, coz they are watching the bottom line closely.

Jumping to another company, on the other hand, can improve your salary because they may be willing to pay you a much higher amount that they have already budgeted before they hire you. After that, again, increments will be slow because your realized their budgeted cost.

Not sure if I make sense, but I hope you understand my gist.

If you have good business ideas let me know, I can help you to link up to potential VCs who might be willing to inject funds for a good idea.

eagle SG

Actually, you need to jump.

Not sure if I make sense, but I hope you understand my gist.

If you have good business ideas let me know, I can help you to link up to potential VCs who might be willing to inject funds for a good idea.

I understand that part... Only worry about workload when jumping... cuz as of now... the work here is rather easy for me... Still have lots of energy at the end of the day...

I don't have any good business idea that need a lot of funds :(
So far... my extra ideas come from setting up things online... So far so good... slow and steady growth... maybe tell u a bit more on MSN later

soul_rage SG

Honestly i dont have much knowledge about non-profit organizations or how they run. Maybe if you could enlighten me on this aspect i can offer my two cents worth on its viability.

Lets assume a non-profit organization that has good corporate governance (ie means good auditing standards and good cost control measures in place). It's focus then would be to ensure that what is a good pricing system to be instil on public transportation that would address 2 primary needs

Given the above, transport costs would be kept to the bare minimum for the general population, and perhaps at a price of about 10-15% more than the at-cost pricing, so that the organization can retain 10-15% as surplus to be used for distribution to poor or improvements to service. To determine bare minimum, we can use past historical income statements, etc as a determinant for prices.

Out of this surplus, can keep 50% for future causes, and distribute 50% to needy families.

You gotta admit that some of the improvements we see on our buses and mrts may well be redundant. Might be something like an overexcessive move. I prefer them to keep costs down, rather than to instil TVMobile.

To the 2nd aspect of your discussion, I would think you are now looking too much into the details of implementation. First of all, we should look at whether the idea is feasible, then we start addressing implementation concerns. Every idea has its pros and cons, and its up to the implementers to look at how to resolve the cons to bring about reality.

soul_rage SG

I understand that part... Only worry about workload when jumping... cuz as of now... the work here is rather easy for me... Still have lots of energy at the end of the day...

Seriously, not to worry about that. I think most people are afraid of uncertainty.

If you can double your pay, then work would definitely increase, though if its corresponding increase or not, we won't know. After all, job scopes are defined by humans, and they err frequently.

But I would say you would feel that doubling your pay is worth the risk won't it? :)

PS: Just don't go back to local companies. They expect you to work 24/7 365 days a year

speakup- SG

I dont know why we are venturing into corruption i thought the initial intention of monitoring whether they are paying themselves too much rather than corruption. Are you now insinuating that our government is corrupt? I compare it to petty theft to draw the parallels, that certain type of crime warrants certain types of punishment, definitely not death penalties for corrupt politicians.

speakup- SG

To soul_rage, you have good ideas in terms of running the transport company as a non-profit organization. The trouble is how are you going to ensure you align the objectives of workers, managers and such with what you are trying to achieve? The concept of principle-agent problem is happening all around us. From your realtor to the people you lead in your company, there is always a problem of aligning one person's objectives with the others. Realtors are paid a percentage of the sale value of a house to encourage them to maximize the value they help their clients get (this mechanism despite good, is still flawed but its not the time to discuss this). Monetary incentives, whether you like it or not is often what motivates people to do certain things, particularly in jobs. Which is why i am pro-competitive market system because it creates the right benefits in the right places to make sure the objectives of principle and agents are aligned.

Similarly, if you are chairing the board of this non profit organization and are tasked with the necessity to achieve the above mentioned goals how are you going to attain them while maximizing your own utility?

Keeping costs as affordable as possible for the general population

This is a problematic statement. How are you going to know if the costs is already 'as affordable as possible'. It is imperative for you to set profit motives for your managers running the corporation for you in a way such that they would be motivated to keep costs down for you. If you run as a non-profit organization and pay your managers fixed wages, how are you going to ensure they go the extra mile to keep costs down when status quo earns them the same amount of pay? Alongside that, the company as a whole has no incentive to keep costs down because if they lower costs, their revenue goes down correspondingly. What good would they do them if they spend so much effort lowering costs and the benefits are accrued to the people?

I know the above once again sounds callous and $$$ driven but it is true. This is why managing your staff in a company and getting the most out of them is such a problematic thing and a topic economists have revisited time and again to understand the mechanisms of office life.

charlize SG

Then have you wondered why leaders of other first world democratic countries don't have million dollar salaries?

sunnytv SG

The trick of not getting caught is by legalised the paycheck to whatever amount they want by stamp, chop & sign. So who dare to question?

soul_rage SG

Again, you are delving too much into the details. As I mentioned, so long as you think it is a feasible idea, there are always ways to resolve the implementation issues.

All the above are issues which non-profit organizations would have thought of already, otherwise, they would not be in existence in the 1st place, isn't it?

Bill and Merlinda Gates Foundation also pay their people market rates to ensure they keep the foundation effective, so I feel that the above are issues that are addressable, only that we need to delve into the details.

What I do not like about PAP, is that they just brush off any idea that does not make $$$. If I suggest the above, they would say "Oh this would not work coz there is pay issues". And then, that's it, they shut off from listening to the viability of the idea.

Too pragmatic a govt, is not good for the people. They may score big for people like you and I who can grasp opportunities that they facilitate to create, but they will not be able to ensure the lower income groups keep up.

1-time payouts are useless, in my opinion, because 1-time payouts are not a certainty, and the lower income group lives in fear of not having enough throughout.

Deploying long-term solutions, such as keeping transport costs affordable, is more important.

charlize SG

People need to understand that running a country means maximising social benefits and minimizing social costs.

If you run a country based on profits like a private enterprise, it is likely you will not be able to achieve the above 2 basic objectives.

How hard is that to understand?

speakup- SG

Charlize we are not talking about running the country its bout public transport by the way.

Yes soul_rage I agree with you on the earlier count(the one about the regulation committee) that perhaps that was a bit too much information and perhaps certain implementation difficulties could be overcome. In this case about the shortfalls of a non-profit enterprise I have to disagree.

I dont think its too much details, what I was just trying to bring across is some of the potential problems which is ubiquitous to most non-profit organizations and to explain the basis of the principle agent problem. Yes to a certain extent its an implementation issue but its is a generic one and one that confronts most non-profit corporations. The reason why the profit driven model is preferred is that my aboved mentioned implementation shortfalls do not materialize.

All the above are issues which non-profit organizations would have thought of already, otherwise, they would not be in existence in the 1st place, isn't it?

The existence of the firm is merely ensured by the recieving of at least normal profits (defined in economic and not accounting terms) in the long run. This does not achieve the efficiency or the criteria specified by you. What you want is benefit maximization and maximization without incentives to motivate the suitable agents to move in the right direction is not possible.

I definitely agree with you on this and that people who can take advantage most out of this kind of governance are those that are forunate enough to be endowed with good family backgrounds to pursue papaer qualifications and capitalize on the groundwork laid by the country's leaders. Inevitably the less-fortunate or lower income groups will lose out to a certain extent. However I still feel that this may be one of the best ways to lift these people out of poverty. Under the millenium development goals, half a billion people in China were lifted out of poverty despite academics against capitalism bringing out compelling evidence that income gaps are widening. What we should be concerned with is the improvements of the lives of these people in real rather than relative terms. Although they are relatively even worse off than the rich, at least they have benefitted and live a life better than before. Together with this would come the important role of education and leveling the playing ground as much as possible when it comes to educational opportunities based on meritocratic terms.

1-time payouts are useless, in my opinion, because 1-time payouts are not a certainty, and the lower income group lives in fear of not having enough throughout.

Deploying long-term solutions, such as keeping transport costs affordable, is more important.

Again I agree with you here. 1-time payouts are useless, regardless of whether is it hundreds to the lower income families, or billions to the poor African nations. Details are not necessary here, but the idea is still down to the old agage that it is better to teach a man to fish than give him a fish. Long term policies should be of primary concern to help these people along the course of their lives. I agree that transport costs should be kept affordable, but i disagree that transport companies should be nationalised/ran as non-profit orgs. It is all about levelling the playing field and taking the lower income groups out of property through equal opportunities and education.

soul_rage SG

Charlize we are not talking about running the country its bout public transport by the way.

Well, then aren't the problems with private organizations just as glaring? Corporate frauds of $50billion, unnecessary bonuses, hopeless greed that places self before others. Collapse of 100-year old organizations.

Seriously, your concerns on non-profit orgs above have been shown to be properly addressed in successful non-profit organizations. And since, they do exist, what then is causing you not to acknowledge their success, other than your own individual biasness and doubts?

History has proven that non-profit organizations exist and succeed, what more evidence do you want then?

In the opposite direction, history has also proven that many disasters are caused by private organizations. So why do you not then insist they will fail?

« Previous Page Next Page »