The 10 highest paid politicians in the world

last SG · 2009-04-02T17:50:56+00:00

got kelong also useless, no fish to catch leonly buy fishes n put in the kelong then say "our FISHES"similar to our FT?

deathmaster SG

By knocking sense into me, you mean that I should agree with you totally, is that correct? That is what your juniors do all the time, agree with you? Do they have any ideas of their own to do things differently?

Maybe what you are trying to say that your money, tax money, cpf money, is being misused in the form of compensation to to the salary of the govt right? Just like AIG right?

Yes, I heard you. But you did not hear me. You think that the standard of compensation should follow the tradition, the market rate, of the world. That leaders don't need to be compensated that much, and that is not their main reason to serve.

And i am telling you that i think is not. yes, you can pay 100k per annum for the minister, and they should be happy to serve their country right? They will just look at their counterparts in the private sector, the leading CEOs, who makes millions per year, and they won't even regret it. A steady and slow minister who makes no mistakes, but no improvements will also be able to qualify. That's the kind of leader you want.

But the kind of leader I want is one that has the ideas and drive to make the country progress, to work like dogs to justify for his pay. And for any guy with the talent to run the country to go for it, and not reconsider his options because of pay issues.

but so far, anyone with just a tiny bit of brains can come up with the "solutions" our current government had come up with so far.

i would have open many casinos many many years ago, than to wait until now. i would build more road, than erecting ERPs which doesn't work.

my point is to say that, the policies created by our politicians doesn't deserve $2m/yr

soul_rage SG

Well said soul_rage. Debate is not just twisting n turning of words, substance is important.

We heard you...certainly me....

Thanks 4sg. Note that I am not here to turn anyone into an opposition supporter or PAP supporter. I am here only to present my point of views of what I see about the present govt, so that each thinking individual can have a more balanced view (my view against govt propaganda) and make a better and more informed decision

Whether a person supports PAP or opposition is not something I would interfere with, SO LONG as the person demonstrates adequate ability to substantiate his support. What I do not like are people who support PAP, and DO NOT KNOW why they think PAP is so good (making me inclined to think that their support are just products of a propaganda, and not a thinking person)

Note that I do challenge extremists on both sides of the spectrum.

soul_rage SG

but so far, anyone with just a tiny bit of brains can come up with the "solutions" our current government had come up with so far.

i would have open many casinos many many years ago, than to wait until now. i would build more road, than erecting ERPs which doesn't work.

my point is to say that, the policies created by our politicians doesn't deserve $2m/yr

To further highlight your point, coming back to our dear friend skythewood saying that he prefers a leader who has ideas to drive the country

I would not want a lousy leader who implements successful ideas to progress Singapore on an economic level, but NOT on a social level. Economic progress at the expense of the citizens, is NOT a good idea.

Excuses not to make this a welfare state are, well, just excuses. Ideas like "Increasing GST to 7% to help the poor" is... urm... totally ridiculous.

soul_rage SG

Oh, i never quote any countries hor, hor hor!! you said it. I aint arrogant nor ignorant, as far as i am concern, i am the most active young singapore gal in speaker corners, because i like to teas...oops sorry, talk to uncles mah.

I would just like to point out, that yes, I agree you are the most active YOUNG girl in this forum. Though I do not agree with some of your views, I can see you have your own perspective of things and form opinions from them.

However, do watch that attitude like calling yourself a CON-sultant, coz there are people here that are in consultant positions, and they do them professionally. I partly play a consultant role in my organization, and I don't appreciate people ridiculing true consultants who perform proper research work and investigations before recommending the best approach to their clients.

Coming back to your pub, I wish you all the best in your business. And do note I do not blame businesses for exploiting employees, because businesses are concerned with only one point - The bottom line. A business must profit, so it will do what is best to achieve its objective.

However, I do blame the govt for putting in place exploitation policies that businesses can utilize to exploit fellow Singaporeans. It is this blatant encouragement coming from the govt, that results in citizens getting more exploited with each passing day.

As some people said, being a Singapore citizen seems to be more a bane than a boon.

skythewood SG

No. My juniors have the right to have their own views (In fact, I encourage that. Too many people DON'T use their brains these days). I am fine with that. Just make sure they can substantiate their views. I have PAP friends who debate intensively with me, and I enjoy those debates.

For you, you haven't been able to substantiate your arguments properly. Your first of arguments were already invalid, and many times, you answer with one-liners, and you pretend to acknowledge arguments.

The above is at least a better articulation of your thoughts, so I applaud you at least for that, and give me some sense that Singapore has a bit more hope.

So my question is, since you said you want leaders who has ideas and drive to make the country progress, what are those ideas that you have seen so far that has some credibility (I know some and I can state those later)?

There are many people who claimed that they think the leaders are justified with their pay because they are very capable and have a lot of ideas. But when asked further, these people blanked out, you will realise that these people are just being influenced by propaganda.

And you know what the best part of this is, the irony of the whole issue? Is that I hear of people who join the PAP BECAUSE of the pay, not because of the passion to serve the people. Have you read about Servant Leadership yet, by the way, coz from your points above, you don't seem to understand it yet.

I only repeat my reminders 3 times when I ask someone to do something. The moment pass 3 reminders, it shows that the person does not know how to progress his maturity.

I don't need you to applaud me. Are you expecting all my points to be valid and 100% true? I am not a genius, and I do make mistake, and i can acknowledge them. You can list out my mistakes and i will apologize for them again if that will make you happy

Any issues there are pros and cons. you can say that the cons outweigh the pros, but you cannot say that there are no pros.

I don't think all people are saints, and money is totally non-issue to them. that is your ideal, not mine. Servant leadership is your ideal too, and i don't intend to read it just because you ask me to. I didn't ask you to read the memoirs or thinking of LKY, Obama, and whoever, do I?

I don't care about your 3 reminder or whatever. debate the point. I don't attack your integrity, but i will debate your points. If you are going to get personal, than too bad loh.

soul_rage SG

Any issues there are pros and cons. you can say that the cons outweigh the pros, but you cannot say that there are no pros.

I don't care about your 3 reminder or whatever. debate the point. I don't attack your integrity, but i will debate your points. If you are going to get personal, than too bad loh.

It's nothing personal. And you don't need to apologize.

As I said, those things I point out, and those things I ask you to read, are for you to learn more. If you don't want to read or don't wish to acknowledge those points, no one can force you. Just as no one can force a stubborn old man from thinking he is correct and everyone is wrong.

You do not even try to understand Servant Leadership, so don't come debating since you have nothing new to discuss. If you have the potential of a thinking person, you would read it, and then come to debate with me on whether it's a good mode of leadership or not. By refusing to even look at it, shows how much of a non-thinker you are.

*shrugs*. By the way, don't act like a saint. You have done personal attacks at people in this forum. I am not a saint. I see you are stupid, I will just point out you are stupid. It's up to you to decide to correct yourself.

I am ok with others pointing out I am stupid, by the way. Everyone is stupid at one point or another (even geniuses). It's what happens when you realize you are stupid, that helps to improve a person.

It's not about you being a genius or not. It's the immaturity of thought that I am hitting. You don't have the capacity to debate (yet). It depends on what you do next that helps you to mature. I was immature once, but I learn from all, whether someone hits me hard or not, so long as he's right, I accept. Anyway, I guess. it's hard for you to accept, so just leave it be.

By the way, I have read LKY memoirs before, coz there's many things to learn (and not learn) from the guy.

bynari SG

http://www.econstats.com/weo/CAUS.htm

lets base on the above and do some maths.

Lets see how CEO of Singapore,Inc,is PM LHL, worth every single cent.

Salary = annual salary of Executive Head,President or PM in USD$

per capita--GDP per capita at PPP in USD$

Ratio--salary/ per capita as defined above

%=Net national reserve +/debts -- in term GDP(%),in USD

Temask and GIC total net assets amount to over UD$220 billions.

@@@@@@@@@@@

Country..... salary ..per capita$...Ratio...reserve/debts %

USA.......400,000...46,000..........8.7................--77%

SG........2.47 m......47,000.........52.5.................+100%

@@@@@@@@@@@@

U CAN COMPLIE other G 20 countries etc to compare.

wat is the Fxxking use when a country is in heavy debt,for generations,

but the President is so called low pay!!

Like Cantonese say goes,

GOOD THINGS NEVER CHEAP.

CHEAP THING NEVER GOOD.

If anyone tell u cheap and good,beware this is another Mini Bond!!

Honda Civic 1.8L (140ps)

Cost in US: S$25,000

Cost in SG: S$75,000

Which one better?

According to lionnoisy, Singapore Honda Civic will be better because it cost more.

Atobe SG

‘At the recently concluded G20 summit, Obama had commented about the obscene remunerations paid in the Financial sector’

"for too long is that you have a CEO who basically selects his board;......... the board, in a fairly cozy relationship oftentimes with the executive...... hires a executive compensation firm, which, surprisingly, tends to think that it's necessary to retain the best talent to pay people $20 or $30 million a year; ...........and we get into the kinds of habits and practices that I think have not been _ have not served shareholders well, I think ultimately distort the decision-making of many CEOs."

Is this reflection not similar to our experience in Singapore ?

A political CEO - who basically selects his own Inner Circle of Talent... that has a cozy relationship with the Executive Government which is formed by his own hand-picked talents, who appoint a Study Group formed by political talents from within the Party assigned to review remuneration for Civil Servants - (which include Government Ministers).

The outcome is the same non-accountable attitudes as the Financial Executives in Wall Street developing ponzi schemes and dubious financial packages.

soul_rage SG

‘At the recently concluded G20 summit, Obama had commented about the obscene remunerations paid in the Financial sector’

Is this reflection not similar to our experience in Singapore ?

The outcome is the same non-accountable attitudes as the Financial Executives in Wall Street developing ponzi schemes and dubious financial packages.

Well said, o Great One.

To highlight your point, LHL at one point was asking corporations to define their KPI clearly for each employee so that it will give the employee more clearer targets (and hence more stress at the same time) what it takes for them to perform. This KPI list will be used by the manager of the employee to rank the employee.

So who is LHL answerable to? Shouldn't he lead by example by putting a KPI on himself and being answerable to us? Or he has forgotten what he suggested.

Coming back to the immature kid skythewood's comment on he thinks its ok to pay astronomical salaries to our leaders who will provide good ideas to drive the country forward. He does not want a leader that plays it safe.

We will ignore the "good idea" part of his argument, since he cannot even provide some good instances of policies which he thinks justifies the ridiculous pay of our leaders.

Let's focus on the part on paying high = getting people who dare to take risk. Is this necessarily true? My view is that, unless there are specific targets for such highly-paid personnel, he will play it safe by making the least mistakes in order to retain his high-paying job.

As another point to note for the immature kid, the stress level for top senior management in the private sector is very high, because they must report results every quarter, and answer to their shareholders every year.Or risk getting replaced.

Is this true for our leaders? They only need to answer to their shareholders (the citizens like you and I) every 5 years during an election, not to mention they plant so many obstacles to ensure we cannot raise our protest effectively.

So again, I still cannot fathom people here who actually think they are justified to be paid 4-5x more than the market rate.

speakup- SG

To the many who have said that the government policies are undeserving of their pay, may I humbly enquire what kind of policies would be considered as justifying their wages?

I cannot emphasize more about the flaw of comparing the so called 'market rate' with what our politicians are drawing. Its not about whether higher pay ensures risk taking or not or whether our politicians have been accountable to us. Its simple logic of demand and supply. When supply of politician low, price high. Simple. There are no tricks no foul-play whatsoever. In such a small populace, those with high capabilities, intellectually gifted and have strong characters capable of being in the government are far and few within. Whilst there is so much talk about servant leadership and passion to serve, the truly pressing problem is how to attract people to give up a corporate job for a public one. It really is simple logic. Let me ask you soul_rage how would you compare yourself to Barack Obama? Its as simple as if I offer US$400k, I get someone like Obama to run the nation. If i offer US$40k I would probably get someone like soul_rage. It is not about the politicians sitting there and setting their pay. It is precisely because of the pay and that their qualitifications command it that they are sitting there in the first place! Peopl are getting lost in the idea that people get into the cabinet and say ' okay this year we shall draw $2.7m'. It works in exactly the reverse manner and you all out that got to understand this logic. The jobs attract the people, not the people attract the jobs.

And honestly those who call our politicians or anyone money-minded for that matter are mere hypocrites.Go and ask yourself why you are even here criticizing politicians for their seemingly exhorbitant pays. It is precisely because you are money-minded yourself! It pinches you to see the money go to them! Do you think you would complain if you were in their shoes? Its okay to complain if Singapore's present economic state is like Malaysia, then they are not doing your job. Youth today and young adults are so comfortable with life, they have the luxury of sitting behind computers to criticize bout people who have made their environment they are sitting in possible. Yes our government is not infallible, but neither are many around the world. It is easy to sit here and say oh build casino who dont know. But are you recognizing the magnitude and impact of such a move? Have you done a thorough socio-economic analysis on the repurcussions? Have you asked yourself about the purpose and number of jobs created? What about the problem of gambling addicts? What is the optimal size of the casinos and what rules need to be in place to maintain the social fabric? You think the above are questions solvable by a chat over coffee?

lionnoisy SG

how can low pay of office bears can benefit the folks in the street

in short,middle and long run?

People need results,not politically correct polices.

can u guys spend the rest of today to read history of few neighbours

countries and come back here to talk.

u can talk to your maids her countries which have paid so little to their

Presidents from over 10 years to 30 years,after the ruling Families

fell.But wat improvements have they seen?

U can also read how are the lifes in western first world now,

from USA,UK and Israel,etc.

@@@@@@@@@@

Active corruptions (where office bears accept bribes) is a crime,

but passive corruptions are also,like the leaders in USA,UK who have allowed

the financial crisis to breed in the past 30 years.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/22825

soul_rage SG

To the many who have said that the government policies are undeserving of their pay, may I humbly enquire what kind of policies would be considered as justifying their wages?

You just don't get it, don't you? Going into a country's leadership is NOT A CAREER. It's just like a nonprofit organization, where its purpose is for a higher calling. The same goes for leaders of a nation. It's a calling for a higher purpose. If you can't even understand that, don't come here and give us stupid arguments.

In addition, your standards of writing and arguments are very poor, lacking in terms of direction, objectives and clarity of thought, which shows you are probably worth less than half of that US$40k you attempted to insult me with. Sad. I won't pay more than $2k a month for a person like you who cannot write properly and justify your arguments properly, and are completely blind to the other side of perspective.

So you are saying that we should not have market rates, and that people are free to name their price no matter how high that be? You realize that you are now making yourself look even more stupid by declaring that the standards of economics are all bulls**t, since market rates and competition is what drives the progress of people, organizations and nations. Don't tell me that our population is limited and we have no choice. OUTSOURCE. You just ignore those points you cannot address. OUTSOURCE our govt and bring in the New Zealanders, who are proven more ABLE, AND CHEAPER than our govt in running a country. After all, our Temasek is now run by a foreigner isn't it?

And kindly not insult those who see the true nature of our politicians. We are questioning their pay NOT because we are jealous of their pay, but because we are the SHAREHOLDERS of this country, and we PAY for their services. I pay my taxes (and probably I pay much more than you), so I have every right to ask for accountability. So stop your stupid and rude remarks to people who DARE to question, unlike you.

What is so great about the idea of building a casino, seriously? You just try to make an ant out of a molehill, and insult fellow citizens who have better ideas than those leaders up there (though our leaders would censure us for suggesting pro-citizen ideas, ideas that will even benefit silly people like you). Before you ask us to reflect, I think the person to reflect is you, you better think carefully whether you are nothing but just a product of the govt propaganda.

soul_rage SG

how can low pay of office bears can benefit the folks in the street

in short,middle and long run?

People need results,not politically correct polices.

can u guys spend the rest of today to read history of few neighbours

countries and come back here to talk.

u can talk to your maids her countries which have paid so little to their

Presidents from over 10 years to 30 years,after the ruling Families

fell.But wat improvements have they seen?

U can also read how are the lifes in western first world now,

from USA,UK and Israel,etc.

@@@@@@@@@@

Active corruptions (where office bears accept bribes) is a crime,

but passive corruptions are also,like the leaders in USA,UK who have allowed

the financial crisis to breed in the past 30 years.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/22825

I try not to waste my time debating with someone who cannot understand what is budget surplus and budget deficit.

But I will just clarify your statement by saying that we are not asking our office bearers to accept low pay, but we advocate REASONABLE MARKET PAY.

So please stop confusing people by being confused yourself.

soul_rage SG

To the many who have said that the government policies are undeserving of their pay, may I humbly enquire what kind of policies would be considered as justifying their wages?

And to the propaganda-controlled person who post the above, may I just bluntly enquire what policies you feel they have put up that are excellent and mind-blowing and therefore justifies their pay that is higher than the US president?

speakup- SG

Should you would prefer a scenario whereby only 5 people come forth to heed your 'higher calling' to undertake the role of governance? Is that your definition of democracy and something you believe would make Singapore succeed? Outsource politics? That must be the biggest joke a hear. Politics is like your army; you dont get others to do it for you!Temasek is afterall still strictly a corporate enterprise and different from the government itself. Can you trust a foreigner to make decisions in YOUR favour when you are insinuating that your OWN people ruling you are failing to do it?

And I thought you said politics should be a noble undertaking then where is there a need to say that its cheaper to employ new-zealanders? You are merely lowering the wage to attract the new-zealanders. There is no way you can divorce the lure of money from any occupation for that matter. Call it what you want, whatever charity you think the government out to be. Get a reality check. We are doing what we are doing for a living. And charity does NOT give you food on your table. Everyone is in it for the money, whether you wanna recognize it, or whether you like it or not.

Im not saying there shouldnt be a market rate but your definition of market rate is wrong to begin with. If the market equilibrium for government wages is at $2 milllion in Singapore then so be it. Are you going to make a big fuss out of a McDonald's meal costing 7 swiss francs in Switzerlands but SGD7 in SIngapore? The theory here is precisely the same. Different markets have different conditions and that accounts for the price discrepencies. Difference in prices is not a result of INEQUILIBRIUM. The reason why we have a field day comparing our politicians wages with other countries' is because people do not understand this simple logic. That is not the way you should be comparing.

And once again you missed the point that they are not the one NAMING THE PRICE. I repeated myself in my argument so many times that Im sick of it alreadyy. Jobs attract workers not the other way round for god's sake. People do not sit there and decide their pay. The pay decides if they sit there or not.You offer your employment but it is up to the employer whether to hire you or not.

You said Im narrow and product of propaganda but look at yourself. You are absorbed in the idea of a 'higher calling' and a 'noble cause' that you have lost sense of reality. Life as a politician is still a career whether you wanna treat it as one or not. Choosing to be a politician incurs opportunity costs in the form of giving up your alternative careers. Thus it is pertinent for a post in a government to be enticing enough for you to give up your alternative. Isnt this just simple logic?

charlize SG

Actually the government market wage rate in sg is actually a minimum wage since it is pegged as a % to top private earners.

Not determined by market demand and supply.

Really.

soul_rage SG

Why not? After all, our govt brings in lots of "Foreign Talents" who make decisions for Singapore employees on a daily basis, why is it any different on their level? So for yourself and us fellow citizens, you practise 1 standard, but for the leaders, they are special so they must not be judged on the same standards? How's that for double standards?

FYI, I was talking politics on YOUR sad level. Since you talk about it as a career, and liken it to a JOB (these are your own words, don't try to hide from it), then why not bring in even better talent that are at extremely affordable rates? They are PROVEN (ABLE in your words again) to be better than our leaders, and they cost MUCH LESSER. Businesses forever are always looking for the best deal. So I don't see why we cannot outsource our leadership jobs to foreigners?

Call it whatever you want, you just don't seem to get it. Temasek and the Govt are the same. You yourself said so. Govt is a JOB, Temasek is also a JOB, so they are the same. Stop kidding yourself and falling over your own claims

charlize SG

Newly registered poster in Mar 09.

Woohoo.

Party supporters to battle contrary online opinions.

4sg SG

Newly registered poster in Mar 09.

Woohoo.

Party supporters to battle contrary online opinions.

sign of coming election

charlize SG

sign of coming election

High likelihood.

If you look at the media news these days, there are articles about the good works of certain ministers, mayors, MPs etc being reported every few days.

Or maybe they just need to soften all the extremely bad press they have been getting from 8 month bonuses, JB old folks homes, limping guy escaping from toilet, first asian country to go into recession, to everything also "I don't know" .

« Previous Page Next Page »