Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On

last SG · 2009-01-02T21:30:00+00:00

Surely it is not the case that the more impressive the kill ratio, the more guilty a side should be?The sites targeted were those that were storing or operat...

JJxJJ SG

so true

Poh Ah Pak SG

Hamas being dumbasses again.. not to excuse the Israelis from also being dumbasses..

Hamas didn't declare ceasefire, only Israel.

Shotgun SG

I accept that yes it is quite possible that if it was inaccurate there should be Arabic speakers pointing out the problem.

But we must considering the amount of internet usage in the Middle East ( 2.9%, 41,939,200). How many among these users even frequent English websites or know enough of it to navigate youtube to see the mentioned videos ? How many could even go into youtube (Iran, UAE, Turkey, Syria, Kuwait, Pakistan bans it, claiming to want to stop anti Muslim websites)

*corrected, UAE or Saudi Arabia does allow youtube. But apparently there are blocks in place for "objectable", "blasphemous material" content. What exactly does this entails i have no idea.

Considering the amount of hate on those videos, what would happen to a user that is not fluent in English and attempted to say those videos are false ? Hell we don't even know a lot about what Malaysians are saying about us.

I ask this because i have China friends and they spent much of their internet time on Chinese websites and rarely go into the English websites because even though they're schooled in English they're not fluent enough to fully understand what is being said.

I never said the children was Israelis nor did i say the subtitling was false. I'm merely skeptic about information in all forms and question the intention of those who posted the videos, who has a vested interest in not reporting truthfully. It's not like the Palestinians are internet literate and know English enough to provide counter arguments.

Our media tells us a lot of positive news about how good the PAP are and how good our leaders. Even i myself are skeptic about the information, i'm not arrogant enough to presume that the majority of Palestinians are stupid enough to believe everything their television tells them, you think their economic stituation allows them to sit like couch potatoes with nothing to do like the Americans?

Hell, i'm not even sure how much of them really believe in the 75 virgins bull the Western media say they are so obsessed about. People are so influenced by what the Western media tells them they can't even see people in the Middle East like a normal human being anymore.

Dude, you're forgetting that there are a lot of very modernized Arabs who live in the United States and UK. You're forgetting there are even Arabs living in Singapore.

There is also another big group; non-Arabs who are fluent in Arabic.

Throw all these people together, thats a whole lot of people who could be screaming blood for fraudulent translations don't you think? Or are is it also your claim that anyone who is well versed in Arabic don't surf youtube?

freedomclub SG

Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?

If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.

It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.

Anybody still cannot fathom why IDF casualties are always higher than the Israeli civilian casualties in a war?

Picture this

Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?

Have I made a point contrary to that? In fact, I acknowledged that Hamas' using of human shields has resulted in civilian deaths many times earlier on. Can you read? Can you answer a direct question? I'm just asking you to look at the war crimes the IDF has committed, the same war crimes that Hamas has committed. Yet you are willfully ignoring whatever question or content I post. Instead of condemning one side of committing war crimes, why can't you see that both parties do not, or cannot, respect human rights? Is it so antithetical to your conditioning that you cannot accept it and constantly evade the issue?

If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.

It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.

I've already posted information showing the contrary.

Picture this

Now that picture is an example of the "propaganda" that you like to condemn. Which armed force wouldnt produce something like that to try winning the support of its population? So you're saying that such a picture should be taken as fact, that the IDF is made up of noble and altruistic soldiers? Soldiers that would never commit the atrocities that the US Army or any occupying army would inflict on an enemy population? Again, I already presented information that demonstrates that the IDF, just like any army, is capable of committing violations of human rights, just like how Hamas uses human shields.

googoomuck SG

Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?

If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.

It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.

I've already posted information showing the contrary.

Picture this

This picture is the truth !

In a Newsweek article, UNWRA 's John Ging said: ....there may have been instances elsewhere where Hamas militants used civilians as human shields, but that still doesn't justify the level of destruction.

Journalist Christopher Dickey said: Its(IDF) attempt to stop Hamas from firing rockets onto its territory is justifiable, but the kind of urban warfare Israel is engaged in now is a hideous business. Soldiers move into and through a dense maze of ambushes and booby traps, constantly threatened by snipers and would-be martyrs making their last stands. Even the most disciplined troops are likely to shoot anything that moves. When you're doing this in one of the most densely populated places on earth—where half of the population is younger than 17—a lot of children will be cut to pieces in the crossfire. There's no way around it.

The rest of the article is predictable. Both acknowledged that Hamas used civilians as human shields but just like you, freedomclub, they condemned Israel and spared Hamas.

freedomclub SG

This picture is the truth !

The rest of the article is predictable. Both acknowledged that Hamas used civilians as human shields but just like you, freedomclub, they condemned Israel and spared Hamas.

I have acknowledged that Hamas is wrong for the war crimes it has committed and I condemn them for that. But as I have said MANY TIMES (which you have ignored), it is equally wrong to ignore similar war crimes which Israel have committed such as using Palestinians as human shields among others. Dont practice such double standards.

Shotgun SG

The world practices double standards. Hamas has also used Palestininan women and children as human shields.

A pretty ironic response don't you think?

zaxis SG

freedomclub SG

The world practices double standards. Hamas has also used Palestininan women and children as human shields.

A pretty ironic response don't you think?

That was the issue I was talking about in the first place. Hamas used civilians as human shields. I dont deny that and I feel that it is deplorable. But in the midst of condemning Hamas, we shouldnt forget that Israel also engages in the same practice. What's more, that also shouldnt prevent us from criticising the violations of human rights that the IDF has committed as well as those that Hamas has violated.

That is the double standards I was referring to. Even if the world practices double standards, it doesn't make it right (simple moral lessons that all children learn and you cant get it?).

googoomuck SG

You are the one who's blaming the IDF for the high civilian casualties, where the Hamas militants are the cause of the civilians' deaths.

Babelfish SG

Lets all face it people. For true peace in the middle east, and Gaza; either parties must disappear. Either the Israelis or the Palestinians.All this previous attempts at peace, they are pretty redundant and short lasting.

If you want peace, prepare for war

Shotgun SG

That is the double standards I was referring to. Even if the world practices double standards, it doesn't make it right (simple moral lessons that all children learn and you cant get it?).

Nobody's preventing you from criticising. In fact, you left quite a few posts that did that. Did anyone try to stop you? I think most offered their differing opinion, giving an Israeli angle about the whole affair.

So what if it's not right? What can you do about?

Why should Kosovo be allowed to declare independence and North Ossetia disallowed? Why not Taiwan as well?

Every country makes decisions to support their own interest, to enhance their own security. Sad to say, children don't run countries, else they might stick to those "simple" morals that you mentioned.

Stevenson101 SG

So what if it's not right? What can you do about?

Why should Kosovo be allowed to declare independence and North Ossetia disallowed? Why not Taiwan as well?

Given what i've seen of world news and the internet, i begining to think children ARE running countries.

freedomclub SG

You are the one who's blaming the IDF for the high civilian casualties, where the Hamas militants are the cause of the civilians' deaths.

Yes I am. After all, the IDF was doing most of the bombing, causing the high civilian casualties in addition to the IDF's past and present history of human rights violations.

But that's after I recognised that Hamas is also guilty for firing rockets into Israel.

You seem to be capable only of understanding the 2nd paragraph while my first point just disappears down the memory hole for you.

googoomuck SG

Yes I am. After all, the IDF was doing most of the bombing, causing the high civilian casualties in addition to the IDF's past and present history of human rights violations.

But that's after I recognised that Hamas is also guilty for firing rockets into Israel.

You seem to be capable only of understanding the 2nd paragraph while my first point just disappears down the memory hole for you.

You deliberately did not mention that Southern Israel have suffered 8 years of rocket fire from Gaza. Between 2001 and 2009, more than 7,000 rockets have hit Southern Israel.

Nearly all Israeli residents living within the rocket range have been traumatized by the frequent sound of air-raid sirens and explosions of incoming projectiles.

Hamas' rocket attacks violate the international humanitarian law prohibitions against attacks that target civilians or are indiscriminate. Hamas also fail to protect Gazan civilians under its control against the consequences of these rocket attacks.

freedomclub SG

You deliberately did not mention that Southern Israel have suffered 8 years of rocket fire from Gaza. Between 2001 and 2009, more than 7,000 rockets have hit Southern Israel.

Nearly all Israeli residents living within the rocket range have been traumatized by the frequent sound of air-raid sirens and explosions of incoming projectiles.

If you want to expand the scope of discussion, then we can also bring in the years of oppression that Gaza has experienced. How they frequently had their borders closed off by Israel, depriving them of food, fuel and medical supplies such that they had to resort to using tunnels to maintain a trickle of supplies.

googoomuck SG

You go first.

freedomclub SG

There isn't a need to in the first place. I know that I seem to symphatise with Hamas. But I acknowledge their wrong-doings. No matter what the reason, their actions are deplorable. Likewise, what the IDF has done, and is doing is also morally depraved and should be condemned. You, on the other hand seem to be wilfully ignoring the wrong-doings of the IDF in your blind support for Israel.

oldbreadstinks SG

i think he feels any casualties caused as a result of hamas' provocation is still hamas' fault.

frankly speaking i'm leaning somewhat in that direction. the whole world seems to think that the IDF are suppose to go in and avoid civilian casualties while taking out hamas at the same time. they're supposed to get hamas only despite hamas using people as human shields. despite gaza being so packed.

haha do you think thats possible?

since they're probably going to die anyway they could have resisted becoming human shields. hamas didn't care and you expect IDF to care?

oldbreadstinks SG

How they frequently had their borders closed off by Israel, depriving them of food, fuel and medical supplies such that they had to resort to using tunnels to maintain a trickle of supplies.

they didn't do it for fun you know. if the palestinians understood their own situations and acted accordingly would all this have happened?

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