Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On

last SG · 2009-01-02T21:30:00+00:00

Surely it is not the case that the more impressive the kill ratio, the more guilty a side should be?The sites targeted were those that were storing or operat...

oxford mushroom SG

Israel was created from the land that was already occupied by palestinian arabs in 1948. The muslims had rejected the 1947 UN partition plan for palestine as put forward by western nations but the UN went ahead anyway. What do you expect the arab muslims to do? They invaded Israel but lost the 1948 war. Israel expanded its territory beyond what was originally mapped out by the UN....victor's spoils...nothing new. Israel took the land of palestinians and drove 4 million of them out of their homes into neighboring arab nations as refugees. Despite UN resolutions requiring Israel to allow the rights of return for these refugees, Israel had refused.

What do you expect the palestinians to do? Israel has F16 and precision bombs, the palestinians have only home made pipe rockets. Western nations accuse the palestinians of terrorism because their crude rockets do not distinguish between military and civilian targets, unlike the Israelis with their F16 and laser guided precision bombs. You know how silly that sounds? Sure, give the palestinians some F16 and precision bombs too so they can target just the soldiers. Israel has the military power, the palestinians do not. They can only use their bodies and resort to suicide bombings to make life as difficult as possible for the Israelis.

But the palestinians will never be able to drive Israel to the sea, despite their rhetorics. And neither can Israel ever have peace so long as it will not allow the palestinians the right to return. This little war will not achieve anything. Israel must exterminate every single palestinian...every child and every woman along with the brick-hurling palestians...if they won't allow them to return home. Israel will not be able to bring about a palestinian holocaust even if they want to, and so the killing will go on and on.

freedomclub SG

Israel could just stop oppressing the "Palestinians" and stop this endless cycle of violence. On the other hand, if Israel stops and sues for peace like in the immediate period after the 1993 Oslo Accords, the "Palestinians" might again be roused by their Imans calling for the destruction of Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state. While Israel has offered a two state solution many times, the Palestinian representatives have always rejected it as a poor substitute for a Palestinian state built on the grave of Israel.

One might ask: Why aren't the Arab states willing to take in their 'Muslim brothers' which are being oppressed and surrounded by the Israelis? The thing is that they too, dont want to take in the "Palestinian" Arabs because it would drain their national resources. Meaning that they dont see the "Palestinians" as "brothers" in the first place. Also, it serves as a way to keep the conflict and to maintain a chaotic Middle-East.

Poh Ah Pak SG

Israel should end the occupation of Palestine and stop their killings.

googoomuck SG

Consider this, from a Jew but isn't a Zionist:

I maybe a jew but i am not Zionist for these 3 reasons
1. The land we took for Israel is Palestine, this was a muslim state, because we took the land from them, Zionism is actually causing more Antisemitsm, before the advent of Zionism, Jews and Muslims were living in peace and Muslims protected us in these occasions - During the time of the Crusades many muslims in power tried to protect us Jews in the Holy land (Now
Palestine) From the Crusaders atrocities against us.
In 1492 after the Spanish reconquest of the last Muslim Kingdom of Granada, The Spanish Inquisition
ordered the expulsion of all jews from Spain, When This News reached The Muslim Ottoman sultan Beyazid II, Heordered a fleet to save Jews and Muslims from spain and immigrat them to the Ottoman Empire. The sultan is said to have exclaimed thus at the Spanish monarch's lack of wisdom: "Ye call Ferdinand a wise king he who makes his land poor and ours rich!"

Also During the Time when Spain was muslim, Jews, Christian and Muslims lived in piece under the tolerant Muslim Leaders. Thios Ideology was called La Convivencia. before Zionism, it was natural for Muslim rulers to Jewish subjects to which this consideration did not apply, we have lost this trust because of Zionism, Many muslims who sound anti Semitic are not anti semitic, they are Anti Zionist, Anti Zionism is not anti-Semitism. In Iran, the Ideology of Convivencia lives today, Iran has one of the Largest communities in the Middle east, many Iranian Jews prefer to stay in Iran rather than living in the Illegimate state of Israel, Jews actually prosper in Iran, The Iranian Parliment even has a Jewish representative of the Jewish Community. the Iranian president Ahmednajad is not Anti Semitic, he is only anti Zionst. Jews also have Privelages what muslims do not have. Jews are allowed to produce there own alcohol and have mixed sex dances. taking land of what belongs to them is a really poor way to repay them for there protection of jews from persecution.

2. years After the holocaust, the pope made a pilgramige to aushwitz, this was an effort to bring christians and jews together after the persecution of the jews by christans (not al christians were oppressive) lead to the holocaust. many of the Jewish Holocust victims were devout christians, Hiter and the Nazis were very anti christian and anti-semitic. Christian were not like how they were in the past (Particularly during medieval times), now they are more reformed and place support to jews. the Nazi Antisemitism is now impotent, so why are we taking land from someone else, this is actually us asking for more antisemitism.

In conclusion, if we were to disband israel and return the land to Palestine, anti semitism would not really be a big issue any more, so Jews can live peacfully with muslims and christians like how it was in Muslim spain.

Who is this 'self-hating Jew' ?

oxford mushroom SG

The problem is that world affairs are ruled by the simple principle that might is right. Western nations decide that land should be taken away from Palestine to create the nation of Israel in 1948. The palestinians and many arab nations still regard the creation of Israel as unjustified and the result of a power balance that is overwhelmingly in favour of Israel and western nations. There is no doubt that if it is the palestinians who have nuclear weapons, the US will quickly pressure Israel to negotiate, give up land and allow the right of palestinian refugees to return.

It is a zero sum game. Might is right.

Poh Ah Pak SG

I don't support taking away palestinian territory to create a state for jews.

freedomclub SG

Who is this 'self-hating Jew' ?

I dont know what that term means. Why should someone be labelled for criticising the actions of its governments? When we criticise the PAP government, who is called a self-hating Chinese? Or a self-hating Malay or Indian, for that matter.

Poh Ah Pak SG

Who is this 'self-hating Jew' ?

That is an odd term.

What is the definition of the term?

googoomuck SG

I dont think Israel really have the intention of "Stopping rocket attacks".

That "stopping rocket attacks" is just a slogan, soundbyte, theme.

Usually for these kinds of political game or a warfare, the surface reason is always not the real reason.

I think the real reason is to weaken the whole cause of the Palestinian nation building.

Israel destroyed police stations, police training centers, killed UN workers (as usual), destroyed homes, apartments, roads, and everything that has to do with Hamas, all Hamas offices etc.

This reminds me back when they launched a war into Lebanon, and gave the reason as to "save 2 Israeli soldiers being held by Hezbollah".

Nobody would launch a big invasion just to save 2 lowly soldiers, and furthermore it was not a special-ops operation to find the 2 soldiers, but a real land war by mainstream troops.

Now, I think the situation is the same. They are saying they want to "stop rocket attacks" but I think these are just the theme being given out as talking points to their ambassadors and spokesmen to say. That is not the real reason.

It seems to me, from their continued settlement-building, playing Hamas vs Fatah, warring Lebanon and Palestine Gaza, they really have a goal of securing as long as possible their territory, and gaining upper hand and weaken the enemies and make any future negotiations or concession more beneficiary to them. They also wanted to weaken any Palestinian nation-building. That is why they choke off the economy, blockade the movement of goods and people (for years not just now), captured whole cabinets, and killed many leaders. They do not want to have a strong viable Palestinian nation-state, organized and solidified, contending the same land with them.

Why did the Herzbolla refuse to return 2 'lowly Israeli soldiers' to test whether Israel would honour her words to avoid the the conflict?

Is it too hard for Herzbollah to hand over 2 kidnapped soldiers?

googoomuck SG

This 'self-hating Jew' don't have a face and a name?

googoomuck SG

I don't support taking away palestinian territory to create a state for jews.

Is there a Palestian language or culture?

freedomclub SG

Why did the Herzbolla refuse to return 2 'lowly Israeli soldiers' to test whether Israel would honour her words to avoid the the conflict?

Is it too hard for Herzbollah to hand over 2 kidnapped soldiers?

Too bad the British didnt bomb the shit out of Iran when Iranian forces detained British sailors.

Poh Ah Pak SG

Why did the Herzbolla refuse to return 2 'lowly Israeli soldiers' to test whether Israel would honour her words to avoid the the conflict?

Bargaining chip.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17

freedomclub SG

This 'self-hating Jew' don't have a face and a name?

That doesnt make sense. I was asking why were you using the term "self-hating Jew". Obviously, this "self-hating Jew" is under the nickname NEWater just like you, [insert epithet], have the nickname "googoomuch". Just because he criticises Israel, he has to provide all his personal details?

Poh Ah Pak SG

Is there a Palestian language or culture?

http://www.palestine-net.com/culture/

freedomclub SG

Is there a Palestian language or culture?

I agree. "Palestinians" are just Arabs that the Arab countries dont care about.

Poh Ah Pak SG

Too bad the British didnt bomb the shit out of Iran when Iranian forces detained British sailors.

As the first glimmer of dawn lit the misty horizon on the morning of August 25, 1941, the HMS Shoreham trained her forward gun battery on the Iranian warship Palang, which was moored peacefully at an Abadan pier. A moment later, a shell slammed into the Palang, the explosion engulfing the vessel in a ball of fire and smoke. As the listing warship settled into the river mud, British and Soviet armies stormed across Iran's borders-commencing perhaps the most dramatic and controversial untold episode of World War II.

Attacked without provocation, neutral Iran suffered her own "Pearl Harbor" three months prior to the United States' more famous Day of Infamy.

Iran's army was crushed, her monarch was overthrown, the beleaguered Red Army was saved from defeat, a German conquest of the Persian Gulf oil fields was thwarted, and the conditions were created for the opening showdown of the Cold War... Few incidents of World War II relate more directly to the current crisis in the Persian Gulf than those described in this book. Sunrise at Abadan explains how -- more by accident than -- design the Anglo-Soviet invasion drew the United States deeply and inextricably into the affairs of Iran...

http://users.sedona.net/~sepa/sunrise.html

googoomuck SG

Too bad the British didnt bomb the shit out of Iran when Iranian forces detained British sailors.

The British rejoiced at the safe return of the sailors.

freedomclub SG

I was referring to the incident in 2007...

But since you're on the subject, Iran has always been a focus for imperial ambitions because of its geostrategic position. In fact, WWI didnt start in Europe, but in Iran where the British made her first move.

freedomclub SG

The British rejoiced at the safe return of the sailors.

The Israelis must have been calling them pussies. Resorting to diplomacy when they've got such big guns.

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