Chee Soon Juan cheated Wall Street Journal

last SG · 2008-11-28T09:48:06+00:00

Suddenly,Dr Chee were a good fren of JBJ.This is a site controlled by Chee.u can read that Central committee of SDP have not expressed theircollective conse...

AndrewPKYap SG

Even the US Jury systems are fallible. Mafia heads get acquitted all the time and for what reason?

No system is perfect lar.

...and with that, the people must coddle dishonorable despots and never try to improve the system?

Confused

Atobe SG

my example is quite simple, but was somehow skewed by you. big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout. good enough example for you? it cannot defy gravity, which is your words, not mine. my words was affect the economy. Singapore obviously cannot match the 700 billion bailouts..

Was your example so simple when it was inconclusive in the statement made ?

like i posted, if a country is powerful, it can still affect the economy. an example will be US.

but to think that Singapore can be that powerful... not very likely.

Now that you have clarified your statement that a "big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout" - you have at least been encouraged to give a clearer explanation to what was stuck in your mind, which you seem to be unable to express in simple ways, and resulted in your thoughts being skewed by your inconclusive statement.

Not so clever to blame others for skewing an incomprehensible simple statement.

Do you seriously think that the 700 billion bailout will turn the US economy around - by this amount alone ?

Big countries are like small countries - economic fundamentals need to be managed at the right time and with the right dose of direct or indirect governmental supervision.

Many reviews have already stated that the present situation in the USA is due to the complete removal of regulations that allowed the Financial System to run amok by creating all kinds of financial programs.

The present US Government was at fault for the false assumption that pump priming home ownership program alone will help to boost the US economy, without any consideration that proper long term job permanence is required to support the repaymemnt to the freely available loans.

Towards this end, the US Government had removed regulations and allowed banks to offer loans to all and sundry - which the banks eagerly accepted to meet bottom line performance demands without considering the recoverable status of the loans.

As matters stand, the 700 billion bailout was not sufficient, as the recent concluded studies made by the US Congress stated that another 500 billion is required; while Obama and his new team has stated that structural changes will need to be made to the way the USA is being "managed".

Big country alone may not necessarily be "financially" powerful - if by big country you will mean population size or even in terms of territorial square kilometers.

For the USA, her territorial or population size has nothing to do with her wealth, as her wealth is due largely to her political system and the acceptane of a political ideology by both major political parties that support the liberties of the individual.

In terms of population size, the USA is smaller than China; and in terms of territorial size, the USA is smaller than Russia.

Yet it has more then trillions of dollar in private wealth within the USA - even as the country and the government is deep in debt.

Can Singapore be realistically compared to any country given the politial ideology that shackle Singaporeans ?

Atobe SG

ah, since you specifically want to discuss jury, not judiciary system, i will discuss with you. to pass judgement, the US need the jury to be seperated from home and housed in a hotel to discuss the decision, and the trial may last for weeks. ==> economically

Is "Justice" less important than "Economics" ?

Is one's "societal responsibilities" less important than "Economics" ?

unfriendly and the jury are not professional judges and their judgement will obviously not be as sound as that of a judge. they can cock up more easily, sending innocent people to jail or letting guilty people free. ==> quality of judgement

Your views reflect the lack of knowledge of a Judiciary System, and your adopted position is due largely to your own experience in a local system that has been promoted by the present government's preference of dispensing speedy justice for both economic and political reasons.

In a Jury System - there are checks and balances to prevent the kinds of faults that you claimed, and which is promoted by those government against such a system.

Before the Jury retire to consider their decision of a verdict, the Judge is in the Court to guide the Jury in the deliberations of the evidences presented by both sides in a trial.

The Judge is trained to determine if a mistrial has occurred, or if a verdict is flawed due to some reasons. Ultimately, the Prosecution can appeal to a Higher Court for retrial. Instances of retrial has occurred.

they are also easier to bribe, and more difficult to choose... if you choose a fucked up jury to give fucked up judgement, they are just doing their job to their best understanding, and cannot blame them for being fucked up ==> accountability

Is your arguments from watching too much serial movies ?

Did you not mention in your opening statement that it was not economical to isolate the jury from their surrounding ?

Skewed judgements have been known to be aborted, and mistrial can be ruled, while the appeal process is available to both the prosecutors and the defense counsels.

Everyone is accountable for their actions, and trial by jury is a trial by one's peers who share common societal experiences, while trial by the Judiciary has clearly shown that the Judiciary is far removed from society, and can just as easily be controlled and manipulated by the State to serve their own agenda.

Without an independent Judiciary, the citizen has no avenue for fair justice.

In such a circumstance, what accountability are you referring to ?

before you come up with some bullshit of how LKY manipulate the courts, go wiki and find out how the judiciary system in singapore works. if you suspect some judge to be corrupt, go read their judgement, and court transcript, like the one about CSJ, and imagine how you would judge.

Why will you depend on wiki to find out how the judiciary system in Singapore works ?

Why do you not use google and find out how the previous Solicitor-General of Singapore actually give you FIRST HAND ACCOUNT of how the Singapore Judiciary ACTUALLY WORK ?

It will benefit you if you try to read The Politics of Judicial Institutions in Singapore without any blinkers or shades that filter out the light.

Atobe SG

Even the US Jury systems are fallible. Mafia heads get acquitted all the time and for what reason?

No system is perfect lar.

Did anyone suggest that any system is perfect ?

At least in the USA and in UK - which our Judiciary System was supposed to have been modelled but had taken on a "frankenstein" evolution - both of these countries have a Judiciary System that is independent and accountable to the Citizens.

The tenure of the judges are permanent, and not subjected to contractural renewal to be determined either by the Prime Mnister's Office, or by the Secretary-General of the Ruling Political Party, or even by Parliament.

In the USA, the judges can be impeached by Congress and removed from Office, as the President is also subject to impeachment process by Congress.

A Jury System is a system where a citizen's criminal offense is judged by his own peers forming the Jury; and although the members of the Jury are not legalistically trained - every right minded human do have common sense of justice, of what is right and wrong; quirks are removed during jury selection.

In any case, the Judge is present to guide the Jury in the perimeters of their deliberation of evidences presented by both the Prosecution and the Defense; and if a verdict is arrived at against all acceptable reasons - it is the duty of the judge to investigate and call for a retrial.

Quick dispensation is no justice, neither is delayed justice.

Worst is when a system is subject to the control of a Strong Man - and everyone is held to ransom by the threat of trial in a system controlled by ONE Man.

freedomclub SG

....

Do you seriously think that the 700 billion bailout will turn the US economy around - by this amount alone ?

Big countries are like small countries - economic fundamentals need to be managed at the right time and with the right dose of direct or indirect governmental supervision.

Well, according to Bloomberg recently, the $7.2 trillion has already been spent. More recent estimates range at around $8.5 trillion to the corporate-financial sector. Try to understand this, you cant fix a problem that is the result of debt induced by monopolised money creation with more money creation. Thats like trying to fix corruption with more corruption. The Fed is a private corporation that has a monopoly of money creation over the US. When it loans money (which it created out of air) to banks, who in turn loans it to consumers (I mean human beings), the debt includes the principle (money created out of nothing) and the interest (money which doesnt exist). In the long run, it is clear that the system is only sustained by more money being created, which is why inflation is a constant. And when one component of this system goes bankrupt (an event built into this system of fiat money), the rest is history. The system has to keep pumping out money to cover up the existing debt and in the process, creates more debt. Crazy? Well, thats called our beautiful fractional reserve banking system which serves to consolidate power and wealth in the hands of a small elite.

likedatosocan SG

news from WSJ :

http://online.wsj.com/article/

skythewood SG