The Rich and Poor Gap

last SG · 2008-11-27T16:33:33+00:00

got your point. just my sick sense of humour....

starhawk SG

hi all i'm quite new here.. but after looking at some very interesting threads started by many of u here.. i kinda wanna give a try too lol..

this topic tat i start has been around for many ages... many ppl in most countries wanna close the gap between the rich and the poor.. but is it possible?is the situation happening in Singapore?

how poor is poor actually? no $$ buy toto/4d/sportsbetting? no meals to eat? no place to live? no car to drive? is squeezing with many ppl in the bus or train = poor? many singaporeans complainted poor but when coe $2 the car market soar..

imagine there is a country with a very close income gaps between rich and poor..... so meaning lesser 'poor' ppl and lesser 'rich' ppl.. but i somehow couldn't explain the feeling tat i had... >> if there is no poor ppl... who willing to do those 'Hardcore' jobs? if no rich ppl who's gonna build up an economy? if all rich citizens = first world country then all poor ppl = third world country?

to say it bluntly.. the rich need the poor and the poor need the rich.. so means when there r rich ppl there will definitely have poor ppl...

how abt this scenario>> philipines and indonesia and our nearby southeast asia countries become developed countries... u think their citizens wan come work here in sg as maids, cleaners, pro, workers???? so then wad will happen??

how abt blagadesh become a nation something like singapore? then who's gonna build our buildings here in sg? can we the singaporeans with our golden hands do the work that they come here to help us do?

give some constructive comments pls

freedomclub SG

"From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations.... But it was also clear that an all-round increase in wealth threatened the destruction -- indeed, in some sense was the destruction -- of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motor-car or even an aeroplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction....For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance... Therefore, from the point of view of the new groups who were on the point of seizing power, human equality was no longer an ideal to be striven after, but a danger to be averted." -George Orwell, Nineteen Eight-Four

As a work of fiction, it is an excellent critique of society then, even today's society.

That is why globalisation has wrecked the economies of Third World countries and has worsened the income inequality between the First World and the Third. More pertinently, if the establishment wanted relieve human suffering (Yeah, right...and threaten their position), it could easily be done. There is a perpetual amount of energy in geothermal sources, information suppressed. The world has a surplus of food, again suppressed. And if we use our huge technological capability, manuel labour would be done by machines, eradicating the need for human labour. But then, that would mean the end of the monetary system, the end of political power, even though Humanity would have reached its zenith.

starhawk SG

as for now, we already can't stop globalisation.... and singapore better pray her neighbouring countries dun flourish.. haha

well.. i only know if u wanna be in the 'rich ppl' grp u have to strive hard and stop wanting to have easy life.. if wan easy life can go countries like new zealand etc.. get yurself a farm and start planting yur own food.. got meat everyday also.. good life

or if u guys wan earn big $$ can go Dubai.. the waiter/cleaner there earn around $20sgd/hr... but remember dun live in 'selangon galens' there cause the residents there will look down on u.. becos the foreign workers' dorm there make their property look cheaper.. haha oh ya they dun like foreigners smell either same as us too they like smell of money only..

Poh Ah Pak SG

as for now, we already can't stop globalisation

Some arguments against that:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/mar/05

http://www.opinionasia.org/Institutional

http://www.stwr.org/globalization/2008-the-demis

http://www.amazon.com/End-Globalization-Strate

There are arguments for everything you know.

starhawk SG

there will always be critiques and arguments and debates for each theories,model or ideas.. just like E=MC2 only until recently then they confirm its true.. lol

anyway i stating we can't stop globalisation in sg.. for our free trade ports and our massive imports and our advanced technology.. its hard to even stop all of these and go back our kampung days.. globalisation in sg already started even be4 our ah kong ah ma come here work liao.. during days of british coloney..

alamak this topic not abt globalisation lah.. off topic liao..

ok as bro freedomclub has posted the article... heirarchry will 'sibeh jia lat' if all ppl hold almost the same wealth lvl... then lets discuss>> who wans to be in the lower part of the heiarachy???

obviously noone lah... then wad factors will determine our role in our hierarchical society?

youyayu SG

as for now, we already can't stop globalisation.... and singapore better pray her neighbouring countries dun flourish.. haha

$20 dollar /hr?

minus their taxs, the cost of living

left at the most $2 per hour

freedomclub SG

No article. Merely quoting from Nineteen Eight-Four.

Obviously, the most prominent determinent of social status is wealth. Just think, what differentiates you from, for instance, LKY? Education, family name, morals (I assume, haha), the list can go on and on.

But my point was, Humanity has the means to abolish this hierarchy that breeds inequality and suffering, if people would only wake up and realise it.

starhawk SG

$20 dollar /hr?

minus their taxs, the cost of living

left at the most $2 per hour

ya lo ya lo...

imagine how cham our blangala frens earns here...

come here still get scold dirty

starhawk SG

No article. Merely quoting from Nineteen Eight-Four.

But my point was, Humanity has the means to abolish this hierarchy that breeds inequality and suffering, if people would only wake up and realise it.

ya~ yur point makes it clearer.. so now the qns is...>>>>> is this social hiearachry man-made? natural developed? or GOD's idea?

is it like the yin-yang thingy? or the balance of nature thingy?

if its meant to be there for balancing, wad consequences if we topple the balance?

if its not meant for balancing, y its there???

ChoCoChips SG

if everyone has the same lvl of wealth there'd still be people to do sai kang one la

nobody sweep floor = demand for cleaners up

then wages will go up ma

then one cleaner earning 1 mil per year is not impossible le leh

starhawk SG

then this social heiarachy is good or bad one???

if it's there.. there r ppl suffering

if it's not there.. also ppl suffering

dun say demand for cleaner lor... there wun be demand cos the govt also earning same level of pay.. who can afford cleaners?? -.-

ChoCoChips SG

me dun wan to pay so much for cleaner

so me thinks this hierachy thingy is good

hurhur

but

those at the bottom de shud not be living way below the poverty standard la

过得去 liddat can le

Ourhealth SG

empty pockets never held anyone back.

Only empty hearts & empty heads can do that.

starhawk SG

so wad is consider 过得去??

my fren say he very poor.no $$ change his comp.. his comp damn slow and his d/ling speed also slow so cannot watch his porn..

my next door neighbour auntie keep gossiping with my mum.. say everything price rise she not enough $$ buy groceries and toto and 4D and play mahjong.....

my cousin thinks char siew rice is a low class meal -.- ... my poor uncle

i'm sure there r some ppl who dun have internet or comp or tv but have a house to live in and 3 meals(chu cha dan fan) daily to eat >> r they consider under poor?

no aircon at home = poor?

my neighbour have maids, i dun have = inequality?

i squeeze in bus and mrt while my fren drives to work = suffering?

ppl fighting to live comfortably = poor?

ppl fighting to survive = poor?

so far i haven't hear news abt ppl dying of hunger in singapore... means singapore no poverty?

is the rich poor gap in sg smaller than other countries?

lai lai give constructive comments :)

freedomclub SG

if everyone has the same lvl of wealth there'd still be people to do sai kang one la

nobody sweep floor = demand for cleaners up

then wages will go up ma

then one cleaner earning 1 mil per year is not impossible le leh

The reason you say that is because you cannot imagine a world without a monetary system that abolishes all present forms of hierarchy and a world where Humanity's technology is used for the social good instead of being used by the military-industrial complex. Would there even be a need for manual labour if machines to do? If money didn't exist, then the enormous resources of the world could be distributed to everyone without consideration to cost (because it wouldnt exist), and be geared towards human need.

Poh Ah Pak SG

You follower of Communism?

starhawk SG

hmm.. this topic like not hot thread...

later i go start another thread on the mumbai and thailand protest killings..

catch me there~~

ChoCoChips SG

cannot exist one la

if all got same amount of wealth,

then eberione will sure fight for other things which puts them higher than the rest one

maybe world leader/s or sth.

unless everybody dies. then no more hierarchy to speak of le.

and just to guai lan abit

who's gonna maintain the machines?

maybe there'll be maintenance machines to maintain them machines

but who maintains the maintenance machines?

so wad is consider 过得去??

my fren say he very poor.no $$ change his comp.. his comp damn slow and his d/ling speed also slow so cannot watch his porn..

my next door neighbour auntie keep gossiping with my mum.. say everything price rise she not enough $$ buy groceries and toto and 4D and play mahjong.....

my cousin thinks char siew rice is a low class meal -.- ... my poor uncle

i'm sure there r some ppl who dun have internet or comp or tv but have a house to live in and 3 meals(chu cha dan fan) daily to eat >> r they consider under poor?

no aircon at home = poor?

my neighbour have maids, i dun have = inequality?

i squeeze in bus and mrt while my fren drives to work = suffering?

ppl fighting to live comfortably = poor?

ppl fighting to survive = poor?

so far i haven't hear news abt ppl dying of hunger in singapore... means singapore no poverty?

is the rich poor gap in sg smaller than other countries?

lai lai give constructive comments :)

有瓦遮头

吃得饱 or at least 饿不死

that is the bare minimum to not be poor lo imo

simi char siew rice low class la

no aircon la

no new comp la

if u are worrying about that instead of where to find money so that u can pay ur rent or even settle tml's meals hor,

u are definitely not poor.

freedomclub SG

You follower of Communism?

Communism still maintained the monetary system and political hierarchy just like our great Democracy. This is totally different while using the earth's natural resources to further humane goals instead of corporate agendas of profit and power consolidation. For instance, if a community needs to build a geothermal energy reactor to work towards energy independence, instead of asking "How much does it cost?", we ask "Will it benefit the community?" and then "Do we have the necessary resources?". Rather than falling into divisive political labels that enable the establishment to divide and rule, why work to promote the social good (a humane-oriented society and worldview), instead of adopting the bullshitty and fraudulent left-right paradigm and consolidating the statist system.

freedomclub SG

cannot exist one la

if all got same amount of wealth,

then eberione will sure fight for other things which puts them higher than the rest one

maybe world leader/s or sth.

unless everybody dies. then no more hierarchy to speak of le.

and just to guai lan abit

who's gonna maintain the machines?

maybe there'll be maintenance machines to maintain them machines

but who maintains the maintenance machines?

Thats based on mentality in a monetary system where competition and self-preservation totally preoccupies people. When scarcity has been eradicated, peoples' mentality will change. In a society of abundance, abberant behaviour will mostly disappear because the drive for money that causes complex social neurosis is gone. Of course, in such a system, political power disappears and our elites, the world elites, wouldnt want that. Thats why the education system and society in general has been conditioned to think within this box, and to help the elite maintain their power. In other words, social engineering, which Edward Bernays, the person who coined "public opinion" wrote:

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organised habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democractic society"

On the technical issue of maintainance, I dont know. Neither do you, or anyone else for that matter. But given that supercomputers have breached the petaflop level and quantum computing is becoming a reality, it wouldnt be a problem. The real challenge that must be overcomed is the elites' resistance eroding their power and the psychological barrier that self-proclaimed defenders of the status quo has (for instance, your own mentality).