Sg Locals flowing Out

last SG · 2008-09-11T21:15:57+00:00

I am completely and totally opposed to PAP regime's plans to increase population to 6.5 million by 2030.SDP, please raise this issue up for discussion, mains...

googoomuck SG

Googoomuck,

I can assure you that most of the Singaporeans in the UK work for international companies that are well recognised in the world. I had qualified to enter NUS but chose to pursue my education abroad anyways. This is also similar to the Singaporeans I have met here and we are lucky to have study abroad because either we are on full scholarship or our parents saved money for us to study abroad.

I now work for one of the leading aircraft manufacturer (OEM) in the world. My salary is almost 3 times the salary of an aerospace engineer in ST Aerospace in Singapore. I think your comment about overseas Singaporeans is unfair and unjust.

Cheers

Danny

A typo error may have caused a misunderstanding. It should be "there", not "they"

Fantagf is right. I'm saying some of those who emigrated are 'mediocre' ones who made it good overseas because these are ordinary people who can do extraordinary things if they are given the opportunities. In Singapore, It's The End for these ITE grads who could not make it to Polys, JCs or Uni.

<Some may think that those who emigrated are the better educated ones.

However, they are those who had 'mediocre' exam results based on Singapore's meritocracy system. They couldn't go further after their ITE education but they are accepted by colleges and universities in other countries. They found jobs after graduation and eventually decided to settled overseas.

Had they stayed on in Singapore, they would have been branded as losers.>

HyperFocal SG

... it doesn't take an opposition party, nor is it affirmative that an opposition party will ruin SIngapore in 5 years... because the FAP, is doing exactly just that - progressively ruining Singapore in untold numbers of years...

skythewood SG

A typo error may have caused a misunderstanding. It should be "there", not "they"

<Some may think that those who emigrated are the better educated ones.

Had they stayed on in Singapore, they would have been branded as losers.>

well, in most countries, there are urban area where the rat race is on, and there are rural area, where the cost of living is low and the way of life is relaxed. The people who can't stay competitive in the urban area will than have an option to live in the rural area, and provide their service which is essential to a small town community. Having a degree in law wouldn't be very useful in the rural area, as compared to a mechanic.

For Singapore, there aren't really any rural area though...

Fantagf SG

REad : http://business.theage.com.au/business/doubt-lingers-for-abc-and-d-for-debt-20080911-4er7.html one of the ways to ruin.

stupidissmart SG

So we got PHANTOM JOBS being created for the local workforce and got VIRTUAL improvements in unemployment figures

So u r saying the "phantom jobs" can be so statistically significant tat it can adjust the percentage of unemployment rate completely ?

Seemed to be assuming?

What's wrong with asking for views by using an "if" scenario?

Then I am right u r assuming since the word "if" is already stating assumptions. Furthermore, your scenario tat EVERYONE moves out of singapore is really far fetched and completely un-realistic

eagle SG

So u r saying the "phantom jobs" can be so statistically significant tat it can adjust the percentage of unemployment rate completely ?

Then I am right u r assuming since the word "if" is already stating assumptions. Furthermore, your scenario tat EVERYONE moves out of singapore is really far fetched and completely un-realistic

So u r saying the "phantom jobs" can be so statistically significant tat it can adjust the percentage of unemployment rate completely ?

That's not what I said. That's what I quoted from another forum. Don't put words into my mouth saying that I said it. You really have a tendency for such things.

And with ~3 mil labour force in Sg, 0.1% is about 3000 pple hor. And assuming half must be locals and half foreigners, that is about 1500 pple... With so many SMEs and small companies in Singapore, reaching 1500 is not hard at all.

Then I am right u r assuming since the word "if" is already stating assumptions. Furthermore, your scenario tat EVERYONE moves out of singapore is really far fetched and completely un-realistic

Did I say you are wrong? Duh... You are of course right... (Yeah, go celebrate)

And where in the world can you find a rule that an "if" scenario cannot be far fetched???

stupidissmart SG

That's not what I said. That's what I quoted from another forum. Don't put words into my mouth saying that I said it. You really have a tendency for such things.

Then wat r u trying to say ? First u pull in foreign to local ratio, then u pull in phantom employees tat change the figure then u tell me u r not talking about these things. SO wat is your point in pulling these 2 issues into the picture ?

Wat r u trying to say here ? If 3 million people r in singapore labour force and if suddenly the 1 million foreigner disappear, who r gonna take over these 1 million jobs ? Even if everyone, including 12 years - 70 years r working, they probably cannot cover up such numbers.

eagle SG

I'm wondering why this is affecting your mental state so much when I merely quoted a post from elsewhere.

You mean I need to give reasons why I post something? Who gives you the right and authority to request so?

Anyway, the main reason has been stated by another forumer who understood.

I'm doing some calculations. Again, does this affect you mentally again?

Why suddenly ask me what if 1 million foreigners suddenly disappear? Did my post above in anyway says that they should????

Or are you (yet again) trying to quote my post, and refer to something else in another thread?

redDUST SG

short answer, nothing. singapore will not sink if 1m leaves. in fact, it takes the weight off the island. what a reprieve!

i won't want to go into lengths explaining myself, but just mentioning the below to explain me saying so:

there are as many variables as fixed factors that will mold the nation to sustain itself. you are assuming everything is transfixed in the present infrastructure that will cause singapore to fall thru' the cracks.

if you earns $3.5k/mth now and next month, your pay is halved. would you die?

angel7030 SG

One thing for sure, when i was studying and doing a project on the GDP of singapore, i found that in the 70s, 80s and 90s the GDP are all double digits except for oil crisis, financial crisis and 85' crisis, and at that time we dun much foreigner here, except our tradition Malaysians helping us out, we dun even have FTs to churn us up, but today, which is my generation, we see a drop in GDP to single digits even with high tech industry and a full force of over a million foreigners (not malaysians), so what are we looking at, do foreigners and FT really help us???

There is a saying goes, if your stomach cannot take so much food, take it light, you will be strong and healthy, but if you eat and eat, you become unhealthy with a fat belly stomach and other problems.

I would say that our govt are over aggressive in their pursue of economy excellent, and the backlash side effect are begining to show as economy become bearish.

sgdiehard SG

So it is not right to state "There has always been one identity, Singaporean, in four different versions, the Chinese, the Malays, the Indians and the Others." Identity is more than just looks. Include accent, cultural level, mindset etc. Many similarities developed and unique and part of Singapore identity.

If I understand what you are saying, then NO, there will never be a uniquely Singaporean identity. There never was (so there is no back to square 1) and there will never be.

simply because we are a multi racial multi religious society. culturally we are different and we respect and accept such difference. In our early history we had Chinese (mostly accestor worshippers) married local Malay and then became Peranakan (don't know why then they did not have to be converted to Muslim). There is still some interracial marriages, but I can't see how a new race could be evolved in the future called Singaporean.

We will only have Singaporean who would identify themselves as Singaporean. The day they migrate to Australia, they become Australian, what Singapore identity can you find in them?

When we talk about developing Singaporean identity, we are talking about those identified by place of birth alone.

If you were born in Singapore, what Singaporean identity comes with you?

sgdiehard SG

short answer, nothing. singapore will not sink if 1m leaves. in fact, it takes the weight off the island. what a reprieve!

i won't want to go into lengths explaining myself, but just mentioning the below to explain me saying so:

if you earns $3.5k/mth now and next month, your pay is halved. would you die?

depends on whether you have taken any loan, how many people you have to support, how long is this "halved" going to last, what is the chance of you earning $3.5K/mth again?

if 1 million foreign workers disappear from Singapore today, will Singaporeans fill in the gap and provide the services? these 1 millions aren't tourists here having fund leh. hehehe....

eagle SG

If I understand what you are saying, then NO, there will never be a uniquely Singaporean identity. There never was (so there is no back to square 1) and there will never be.

We will only have Singaporean who would identify themselves as Singaporean. The day they migrate to Australia, they become Australian, what Singapore identity can you find in them?

When we talk about developing Singaporean identity, we are talking about those identified by place of birth alone.

If you were born in Singapore, what Singaporean identity comes with you?

I'm thinking now... I should have came here to source for information when I did my politics SS module 2 years ago... on the part of identity and culture

eagle SG

if you earns $3.5k/mth now and next month, your pay is halved. would you die?

depends on whether you have taken any loan, how many people you have to support, how long is this "halved" going to last, what is the chance of you earning $3.5K/mth again?

if 1 million foreign workers disappear from Singapore today, will Singaporeans fill in the gap and provide the services? these 1 millions aren't tourists here having fund leh. hehehe....

There are just too many factors to talk about these.

True, some FWs and FTs are definitely needed and required. But all 100% of them??? Question would then be... how many of these 1 million can we not do without?

Anyway, there are still good and friendly FWs around, and these are definitely very welcomed, as least to me. Eg yesterday at Boon Keng KFC, there was this PRC lady serving us at the counter. Somehow, I can see her enthusiasm in serving, and her quick smile and everything you can expect of from a service staff. This is someone indeed better than quite a number of local service staff.

sgdiehard SG

I would say that our govt are over aggressive in their pursue of economy excellent, and the backlash side effect are begining to show as economy become bearish.

While I agree with you that the govt may be a little too agressive in their pursue of excellence, there are some points you need to note.

1. GDP was growing at double digits in the beginning, but the bases were low. From 1896 billion US in 1970 to 11,730 billion US in 1980, the increase of 9834 billion was 6 fold! but from 36,843 billion US in 1990 to 92,720 billion US in 2000, the increase was a hefty 55,886 billion, but in terms of percentage, but it was 2.5 times.

2. Last time Singaporeans have many children, and their parents worked as hawkers, cashiers, teachers...that time O level already can become government officers, U grad really big thing. Now our generation, dont want to have many children, even with incentives, running hawkers stall is very time consuming, I understand every years there are over 2000 A levels with 3 to 4 As. Our generation, or rather your generation, are more highly qualified, more choices of higher levels jobs.....times have changed.

As long as the foreign workers are here to do what we don't want or can't do, I have no complain, even malaysia is getting in over 2 millions foreign workers otherwise their rubber and palm oil plantations would be left to the monkey.

stupidissmart SG

I'm wondering why this is affecting your mental state so much when I merely quoted a post from elsewhere.

You mean I need to give reasons why I post something? Who gives you the right and authority to request so?

If tat is the case then I can also post why do u write something totally out of point int he discussion and if u fail to substantiate, then u just proved to others u r a troll and disrupting the flow of the argument

Why suddenly ask me what if 1 million foreigners suddenly disappear? Did my post above in anyway says that they should????

No, but why can't I repeat a point which i had said before which is relevant to the discussion ? Who gives u the right and authority of u to request I give reasons for posting something ?

short answer, nothing. singapore will not sink if 1m leaves. in fact, it takes the weight off the island. what a reprieve!

i won't want to go into lengths explaining myself, but just mentioning the below to explain me saying so:

if you earns $3.5k/mth now and next month, your pay is halved. would you die?

I appreciate u giving out a short answer but it is too optimistic to think tat 1 million job holder dissappear and business will be as usual for singapore in the long run. If there r too little job holder, growth is stiffened and businesses r affected. Cost spiralled out of control, constructions r halted project r postponed and probably relocated. Then u will see singapore really sinking in economy after a period of time. If u talk about your pay, lets say your pay is reduced halved in the long run. Wat will happened to u ? U will probably go out lesser, enjoy a lesser quality of life.

developing countries get a high rate of growth easier. The more developed u r the less u can grow. If u realy wanna see the rate of growth it is really relatively about the same level except at crisis period

http://indexmundi.com/singapore/gdp_real_growth_rate.html

Why don't we ask the following... if too little job holder in singapore, will it cause the companies to move out. Yes because the cost is gonna be much more expensive. If there r no foreign workers will we be forcing singaporean to do jobs they do not like ? Yes because someone has to built buildings etc

Put it tis way... economist put us as no unemployment rate and any lower it is bad for economy. The balance can be striked by controlling flow of foreigners. Should we follow academics or not in employment rate ?

sgdiehard SG

There are just too many factors to talk about these.

True, some FWs and FTs are definitely needed and required. But all 100% of them??? Question would then be... how many of these 1 million can we not do without?

I will say that we need FWs, but the FTs need to be carefully qualified. Maids, construction workers, those doing jobs such as rubbish collectors, cleaners..and now even the copi ah soh are those I have no problem with.

But those in the office, the none expats (meaning they are not senior enough even in their own organisation to be given housing), or foreigners here on local term, are the ones I really have problem with. Some Australians are here on local term, live in HDB. Some PRC here on tourist visa, got job on local term and squeezed in some HDB to reduce costs, some local companies, recruited philippino architect as cheap assistant, but 4 to 5 into one small condo ....all these people, regardless of whether they come from....are called FT and not much of a talent to me.

eagle SG

Somehow, only you fail to notice the reason.

Any reason why in your quote above, you failed to quote too that I mentioned some other forumer has already given the reason? Selective quoting and reading from you for some unknown purposes it seems.

No, but why can't I repeat a point which i had said before which is relevant to the discussion ? Who gives u the right and authority of u to request I give reasons for posting something ?

Of course. You have all the right to quote my post, and post something totally not related to my post at all.

Go ahead. It's not the first time you done it anyway. I presume you are quoting my post but not asking me anything at all.

Rock^Star SG

Nobody's asking the 1 million foreigners to leave en bloc. Now that the economy depends on them, it's quite redundant to ask such a qn right. This is like a chicken and egg issue. Why even have so many foreigners in the first place if most jobs created have gone to them? The answer is so as to maintain Sg's vibrant economy. More companies, more economy growth, more tax revenue in the coffers and Sg looks gd still.

Ever wondered why the govt only releases unemployment rate for residents (prs included)? Because the stats for the no. of Singaporeans unemployed would be too embarassing. The unemployment percentage is also reduced by the massive numbers of new PRs employed.

Foreigners are here to depress wages so that Singapore remains a popular destination for foreign investment. The tax collected from such FDIs contribute greatly to govt revenue. Such a strategy is only for developing countries like Msia. The idea was to receive the expertise and stand on our own but Sg has hardly ever done so. The rote learning environment due to our education system has hardly helped entrepreneurship either. We will forever remain a hunting ground for cheap labour if this strategy continues. Rich poor divide can only widen.

Vote wisely the next election and blood a new generation...very slowly but surely in the next 10 years to form the next govt.

wheelcamp SG

If I understand what you are saying, then NO, there will never be a uniquely Singaporean identity. There never was (so there is no back to square 1) and there will never be.

What is considered your unique Singaporean identity then?

We are different in some ways but we are also similiar in other ways.

In our early history we had Chinese (mostly accestor worshippers) married local Malay and then became Peranakan (don't know why then they did not have to be converted to Muslim). There is still some interracial marriages, but I can't see how a new race could be evolved in the future called Singaporean.

Why is a new race then called Singaporean and not a person having shared similarities with locals called Singaporean? Singapore identity is more than just looks. Include accent, cultural level, mindset etc.

We will only have Singaporean who would identify themselves as Singaporean. The day they migrate to Australia, they become Australian, what Singapore identity can you find in them?

What makes you so sure that oversea Singaporeans do not retain their accent, culture and mindset?

When we talk about developing Singaporean identity, we are talking about those identified by place of birth alone.

So identity is more than just "There has always been one identity, Singaporean, in four different versions, the Chinese, the Malays, the Indians and the Others."

If you were born in Singapore, what Singaporean identity comes with you?

Accent, cultural level, mindset, food etc.

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