1st world country, 3rd world situation, Uniquely Singapore

last SG · 2008-07-19T17:15:21+00:00

Don't forget based on the last ERECTION result 66.6 % of SIngapore is happy with the garment.So I would really be shocked if the PAP keeps coming back strong...

eagle SG

Try the shipyard lor...

If u do not wanna do, and the job need to be taken, then FT has to come into the picture

If u r poor and needy in singapore, u do get welfare and cheap housing

Well it is having a job versus no job. If u have a choice, u will choose the more better paid and more comfortable job. If u do not have a choice, then u can only do it

Try the shipyard lor...

He's not engineer. That sentence wasn't against your engineer statement. A 2nd upper degree is social science.

If u do not wanna do, and the job need to be taken, then FT has to come into the picture

You still do not get the point. You are asking people to do more for less. So supposed your current job, you are paid $3k a month. Then a FT come along with comparable qualifications and experience, and come with a price tag of $2k. Your boss tells you that either you take a pay cut of 33% or you leave, how would you feel?

If u r poor and needy in singapore, u do get welfare and cheap housing

How is the poor and needy being judged? What welfare are there? Food and transport coupons? How is this being compared to welfare for all senior citizens in HK (only those born in HK are eligible)?

Well it is having a job versus no job. If u have a choice, u will choose the more better paid and more comfortable job. If u do not have a choice, then u can only do it

The point that everyone is trying to bring across to you is that the government is leaving almost everyone with no choice. Accept your lower pay or let FTs do the job.

will4 SG

In and out is very common.In fact,gross migration leaving SG

shall be more than 1000.Many came to SG,at least planned for short term.

Many become long term and settle here.

But our net gain is very high,if u trust CIA report.

I find wars torn countries also got very net gain.

UK saw 400,000 left in 2005.So,can u say UK

is a police state?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7096352.stm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html

Chee Soon Juan and his foreign buddy made big mistakes

in migration figures.

They think SG experienced net loss of population.But in fact

Spore was one ot the top net gain in migrations.What a fool

and egg head academic for his foreign buddy!!

What is the figures Spore gained from foreigner coming to this country?

stupidissmart SG

do you agree the floodgate is wide open here in singapore?

It seems to be a bit open to me as well

i say then he doesn't deserve to lead singapore because he has neither passion for the people and nation to leadnor the moral authority to do the right thing for singapore

I do not know about u but if u ask me, if i wanna get a pay reduction to work in politics where my life will be restricted forever

I say no....

Is the heart in the right place... I don't know but it seems to people tat politician must be like very virtuous and cannot be like normal people who just work for... well pay... As wat someone said before, everyone wanna do a job tat pays well. Nobody like to regress in their career path... And such pratical people may not be performing badly in their job. (Otherwise all CEOs r lousy)

will4 SG

It seems to be a bit open to me as well

I do not know about u but if u ask me, if i wanna get a pay reduction to work in politics where my life will be restricted forever

I say no....

With regards to foreign professional, there seemed to us that they do not like to stay long in this country.

redDUST SG

It seems to be a bit open to me as well

I do not know about u but if u ask me, if i wanna get a pay reduction to work in politics where my life will be restricted forever

I say no....

the perils of (absolute) meritocracy. the very thing the PAP has designed and manage to brainwash the majority of singaporeans.

sad you feel this way too, money talks.

all the more i gotta leave this place. i clearly don't fit in.

stupidissmart SG

He's not engineer. That sentence wasn't against your engineer statement. A 2nd upper degree is social science.

Maybe a teacher ?

I feel bad.But then u got to see the scenario in the big picture again. Suppose FT r stopped and then u retain your 3K job... for half a year before the company decide to go to china and invest and leave u retrenched. How would u feel then ?

If u r old and needy, the gov give u money and shelter. Tat is why there is no vangabond in singapore. Do u think we should give welfare to all senior citizens ? U think the old boss of CK Tang and banks deserve welfare money ?

The point that everyone is trying to bring across to you is that the government is leaving almost everyone with no choice. Accept your lower pay or let FTs do the job

As long as there is a high demand for jobs, the pay will not get to be too low. If the FT is good, they will not settle for low pay as well

stupidissmart SG

With regards to foreign professional, there seemed to us that they do not like to stay long in this country.

Some people want them to stay long, some want them to leave soon...

the perils of (absolute) meritocracy. the very thing the PAP has designed and manage to brainwash the majority of singaporeans.

sad you feel this way too, money talks.

....

if money is not an issue,

we wouldn't be talking about FT anyway...

whiskers SG

when i see things, i see them through logic and rationality and often think "If I am in their shoes, wat will i do" before I complain.

25yr old.... jus out frm uni.... cannot get honour(maybe cos i stupid, or...), went out find job.
Got wife got family, want eat want flat. Go interview, boss say nono nw market price is 2k for u, want it take it, dun want bye bye. We ate frozen meat, take bus, accept no pay rise, rise GST help me so happy, vote pap... Wa... but now....

My mum also cannot find job leh.... she want to wash plate in food court, but dunno why cannot find job, might as well the food court all move to China... doesnt make a pittance of a difference to us if they move.

P/S the above is my work of fiction... but nonetheless true in every sense

redDUST SG

Suppose FT r stopped and then u retain your 3K job... for half a year before the company decide to go to china and invest and leave u retrenched. How would u feel then ?

veil threat. has singapore no more competitive advantage anymore that can differentiate itself from china? will singapore not reinvent itself? are there not niches where singapore can still excel in? you really spout a lot of rubbish here. if that is really the case, then the question of $million dollar salary of the ministers come into the discussion (again). lowering salaries, that kind of solution ah tee ah kow also know.

As long as there is a high demand for jobs, the pay will not get to be too low. If the FT is good, they will not settle for low pay as well

duh, the FTs are not settling for low pay, they are getting 2-5x of what they are getting back home. in fatc, they will settle for less here since it is still significantly higher than their pay back home. singaporeans are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

redDUST SG

Some people want them to stay long, some want them to leave soon...

....

if money is not an issue,

we wouldn't be talking about FT anyway...

that's right. you nail it in the head. i think it is your head. meritocracy does not apply to the blue collar workers.

interviewee: i upgraded myself. don't i deserve $50more in this job? after all, the gahmen says training to constantly improve oneself to make oneself employable.

interviewer: are you dumb or what? meritocracy don't apply to `disposable' worker like you. after you, i got 10 pinoys waiting to do the same job as you for $100 less than MY asking pay. mind you, not yours. so, you keen or not? dun say i dun support singaporeans arg....

that sinking feeling.

eagle SG

Maybe a teacher ?

As long as there is a high demand for jobs, the pay will not get to be too low. If the FT is good, they will not settle for low pay as well

I mentioned this before too to the other forumers. But then, from your reply, it seems that you are one easily resigned by fate and circumstances. Either that or you must be easily satisfied, preferring to work till age 70, then go around collect metal can drinks during your twilight years for survival.

Well, that amount offered wouldn't even make them bat an eyelid, and I dare to say that they wouldn't even bother going to apply for and collect it. Even then, I would say they deserve the money too, because they have made gigantic contributions to Singapore. So yes, the old boss of CK Tang and banks do deserve the welfare money.

As long as there is a high demand for jobs, the pay will not get to be too low. If the FT is good, they will not settle for low pay as well

We had seen high demand for jobs matched by high (and easy) supply of FTs. That wouldn't equate to an increase in pay leh

stupidissmart SG

Lets put it tis way... developed countries r seeing a hollowing effect as well. Singapore has advantages but sad to say labour intensive market is not one of them.

Furthermore, current situation is not as if the pay of singaporean suddenly reduced

Well there r two kind, one of them is the lower value job such as labourer where they do get a higher pay. Another kind is the higher level such as engineers etc. If the FT can come to singapore to compete on high level job, they can go to other countries other than singapore. Tat is why they r leaving pretty fast as well

i upgraded myself. don't i deserve $50more in this job? after all, the gahmen says training to constantly improve oneself to make oneself employable.

I thought upgrading is a change in profession. If u upgrade from a lorry driver to become, lets say, a clerk.

Then your pay is gonna increase as well as your life

redDUST SG

I thought upgrading is a change in profession. If u upgrade from a lorry driver to become, lets say, a clerk.

Then your pay is gonna increase as well as your life

i am glad i can help you broaden your horizon here. upgrading doesn't mean just a change of profession. it can also mean moving up the food chain on the type of job you are currently on.

stupidissmart SG

Actually u r pretty right on me being resigned by fate and circumstances

My motto is to do things using the "best course of action" approach...

As said long time ago. Life is just gonna get harder and harder... The problems of the other develop economies is high unemployment rate and stagnant pay as well...

I don't know.. maybe I just see the problem too analytically and not emotionally

The amount is enough for some to survive solely on it. And tis money should be given to the needy and not to the rich. Giving to the rich is giving less to the poor

We had seen high demand for jobs matched by high (and easy) supply of FTs. That wouldn't equate to an increase in pay leh

Believe it or not, the number of FT r not free flow. There is a quota for number of local to number of foreigner in a company

stupidissmart SG

i am glad i can help you broaden your horizon here. upgrading doesn't mean just a change of profession. it can also mean moving up the food chain on the type of job you are currently on.

So it is still good isn't it ?

On FT, I must say I do not know all the things because of the obvious fact I am not from the gov service. I can only offer is my point of view. As said before, a lot of developed countries have problem with immigration as well and it is a source of complaints and a reason to swging votes for their country.

IMO, however one thing tat is always mixed up is tat people feel tat because of FT their lives has become worse. To me, it is actually the life had become worse and tat is why FT has to come in.

eagle SG

Actually u r pretty right on me being resigned by fate and circumstances

My motto is to do things using the "best course of action" approach...

As said long time ago. Life is just gonna get harder and harder... The problems of the other develop economies is high unemployment rate and stagnant pay as well...

I don't know.. may I just see the problem too analytically and not emotionally

The amount is enough for some to survive solely on it. And tis money should be given to the needy and not to the rich. Giving to the rich is giving less to the poor

Believe it or not, the number of FT r not free flow. There is a quota for number of local to number of foreigner in a company

Actually u r pretty right on me being resigned by fate and circumstances

My motto is to do things using the "best course of action" approach...

As said long time ago. Life is just gonna get harder and harder... The problems of the other develop economies is high unemployment rate and stagnant pay as well...

I don't know.. may I just see the problem too analytically and not emotionally

Actually I don't see how analytical you really were, other than saying we should all accept life as that

The amount is enough for some to survive solely on it. And tis money should be given to the needy and not to the rich. Giving to the rich is giving less to the poor

Which is why they should just give. How many percentages of the senior citizens we have here are rich enough? Do you really think it is more efficient to sieve out the really needy than to give every senior citizen?

Believe it or not, the number of FT r not free flow. There is a quota for number of local to number of foreigner in a company

Believe me, there's a way to circumvent that quota (more of a ratio) easily. I have mentioned it before somewhere else in this forum. One method: employ someone else (maybe a housewife) by name, and pay that person CPF, but no salary. Then you can employ even more foreigners already, because on paper, you have employed another Singaporean. The amount paid to the CPF is much less than what a boss could have paid if he had really employed one more Singaporean.

redDUST SG

So it is still good isn't it ?

what is good?

Fantagf SG

So it is still good isn't it ?

IMO, however one thing tat is always mixed up is tat people feel tat because of FT their lives has become worse. To me, it is actually the life had become worse and tat is why FT has to come in.

To me, it is actually the life had become worse and tat is why FT has to come in.

Care to explain why life has become worse?

stupidissmart SG

Actually I don't see how analytical you really were, other than saying we should all accept life as that

Hmm... well then wat do u think should be done ?

I do not agree with tis point of view. Most senior citizens r not needy and if we just give, we r reducing the amount of money the needy can get. Lets say only 20% r needy and instead of channeling money to tis group of people, we r giving to the insanely rich people as well. Tat is not right

We should talk about legal means and not illegal means. If u wanna talk about illegal means, then u can frankly do a lot of bad things with or without FT.

what is good?

From a factory worker to a supervisor. Tat is also inproving his life isn't it ?

stupidissmart SG

Care to explain why life has become worse?

A globalised world means everybody is going to the cheap sites to do business. A globalised world is where companies have to fight tooth and nail over competition and profit of companies r not increasing.

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