1,000 Singaporeans gave up their citizenship every year

last SG · 2008-06-18T10:59:57+00:00

Not even sure if that number is accurate... The papers a few days ago also say 150,000 Singaporeans stayed abroad.If only 1000 a year, means 100+ years of mi...

maurizio13 SG

Wow! 5 figure salary! $150,000. UK! in Financial Mgt. Would engineering be the same, although you didnt say so, still 5 figures as you claimed?

But hang on a second! Let's work some figures.

$150,000 less 23% tax would be $115,500 balanced, or $9,625/mth.

Rental of one bedroom flat( don't even think to buy one! Beyond most working class reach!) = est $5,000

Less Municipal tax ( property tax) = est $ 500

Food ( steaks cost a bomb) = est $1,000

Sub total = est $6,500

Balance of salary = est $3,125/mth

Car, petrol, parking, electricity = ????

Without car, electricity, entertainment costs, you are already down to $3,125.

Let's compare a Spore engineer here - $6,000/mth

Tax 8.5% = balance of $65,880 or $5,490/mth

HDB 5 rm flat =$1,000/mth and ( own the flat for 99years)

Town council = $ 120

Food =$ 500

Sub total =$1,620

Balance of salary=$3,870/mth

The Spore engineer may earn lesser, but at the end of day, who is better off and have more money in the pocket? You claim to be an engineer, I dont wish to doubt you, but have you work your figures properly???

And to rub it in, paying taxes and contributing to UK as a PR is better than contributing to our society, who had offered you the opportunity since birth to excel?

Greetings, from Singapore.

xtreyier

1) Your tax rates are wrong!

2) UK = Steaks; Singapore = economical rice. Try comparing steaks for steaks.

3) Your rental rates for UK is wrong!

4) Also consider the other benefits like free healthcare.

5) Your salary for both countries are wrong, based on comparison with newly qualified accountants, UK is about 4.4 times that of Singapore.

An extremely bias comparison.

eagle SG

Digress...

Saddest news today.... Prof Ooi Ban Leong passed away on Tues due to traffic accident...

He was my tutor for 2 modules, and had greatly assisted me in one of my project modules :(

A happy and smiling man always, he's only 41 yrs old.... Sigh...

xtreyier SG

1) Your tax rates are wrong!

2) UK = Steaks; Singapore = economical rice. Try comparing steaks for steaks.

3) Your rental rates for UK is wrong!

4) Also consider the other benefits like free healthcare.

5) Your salary for both countries are wrong, based on comparison with newly qualified accountants, UK is about 4.4 times that of Singapore.

An extremely bias comparison.

I say you are wrong too.

PS: There! I said it too. No need for clarification. Simple one liners are cheap. I too can write it.

eagle SG

M13, copy your Aussie calculations last time?

maurizio13 SG

While the government throws away our hard earned money into frivolous acquisition of over-priced companies overseas. The commoners are left with having to pay the price with high levels of inflation, taxes, fees, charges and fines.

Ever wonder why our wages are so depressed, while citizens from other equivalent GDP per capita economies (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, etc) can better afford holidays overseas. Their average wages are at least 3-5 times of Singaporeans (e.g. waiters and retail assistant makes AUD 15 to AUD 25 per hour). Singaporeans can only contend with 3rd world standard of living in the future, given the government's policy on letting in more 3rd world workers to push down wages.

The explanation for low wages given by P4P was global competition, seems like competition only applies to Singapore ONLY. But not to countries such as Australia or New Zealand.

P4P lackeys here complain that some of these countries like Australia, New Zealand, etc have high tax structure. But given their wages, they still make more than the average Singaporeans and could afford more despite their high tax structure. Notwithstanding that they do not need to pay for healthcare and basic education.

***This comparison is based only on the after tax spending power of low wage earners of both countries. I do not think that we need to compare the after tax spending power of high income earners, because they are still extremely well off after taxes.***

Singapore:

Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]

Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)

Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]

An average waiter in Australia will have a spending power of AU$26,865, while a Singaporeans waiter will have only SG$11,160. Why do you think when we go for holidays overseas, we can afford less than an equivalent GDP per capita country like Australia or New Zealand.

You do the maths and tell me who is actually better off after personal taxes and GST.

Singaporeans or Australians???

Though Australia might have a higher personal tax structure, but their average wages are 3 to 5 times of Singaporeans. Even after deducting high taxes and GST, they still do end up with more money in the pocket than an average Singaporean. Moreover, they have no need to pay for healthcare and basic education.

Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)

maurizio13 SG

Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his PUBLIC Housing (99 year leasehold) 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 2.60% (fixed rate), he would need some 21.65 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay Property Tax + SG$110 (TV Licence)every year.

http://www.realestate.com.au/

Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent PRIVATE Landed House in Perth for AU$250,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 18.53 years to pay off his landed townhouse. An Australian citizen ends up in a 2 storey landed property with less than the number of years repayment, as compared to a Singaporean citizen buying a 2 bedroom HDB flat (99 year leasehold).

Present Amount of Ordinary Annuity Calculator.

!!! Remember this fundamental issue, the salary of workers in Australia (without exchange rate differential) is 3 times that of Singaporean workers !!!

maurizio13 SG

This comparison done in Dec 2007, so figures might have changed.

xtreyier SG

Look M13.

We can go on endless circles as you had gone throughout the years trying to prove that pastures outside of Spore is greener.

There can be no doubts that such perception is true. How can a small little red dot compare with resource and land rich countries like Australia?

How can our humane and equal, often necessary survival type immigration policies be equal to protectionistic rich nations?

The whole issue of losing our people is not about trying to hoodwink them to stay. Rather, it is to show and help them if the pastures outside Spore is indeed greener. At least they can make a better and intelligent informed decision. Comparisons are easy, i can simply put anything up, eg, comparing PM salaries( anyone capable can aspire towards it) or Tokyo housing rates, and disprove your figures immediately, resulting in endless cycle of debates, counter productive and a waste of time.

Abandoning ship is easy. There is no law to restrict it. But should one? More so after our previous generations, grovel like dogs to colonnial masters, forced to work for brutual japs at gunpoint, bullied by race supremacists, had done so much to provide for us all for our today?

No matter who rules, our allegience is to the flag, and each one of us is responsible to make Spore better. And who better then a citizen to initiate and make such changes?

jojobeach SG

Look M13.

We can go on endless circles as you had gone throughout the years trying to prove that pastures outside of Spore is greener.

There can be no doubts that such perception is true. How can a small little red dot compare with resource and land rich countries like Australia?

How can our humane and equal, often necessary survival type immigration policies be equal to protectionistic rich nations?

No matter who rules, our allegience is to the flag, and each one of us is responsible to make Spore better. And who better then a citizen to initiate and make such changes?

If every Singaporean thinks like you, Singapore will not improve any further than what we are now.

Government can give her people the shittiest housing.. the lousiest health care, the cheapest education, and the crappiest policies....and we the Singaporean will just slurp it all up.. without any complains.

Pledging our allegiance to the Singapore flag.. does not mean we must also give up our soul.

eagle SG

If every Singaporean thinks like you, Singapore will not improve any further than what we are now.

Pledging our allegiance to the Singapore flag.. does not mean we must also give up our soul.

And it does not mean remaining stagnant and not seek for improvements.

Anyway he changed tune so fast... First, he tells M13 that he can say M13 is wrong. Then when M13 took his post (from another thread) and put it here, he suddenly switched to saying he can disprove M13 by putting anything up.

fymk SG

No matter who rules, our allegience is to the flag, and each one of us is responsible to make Spore better. And who better then a citizen to initiate and make such changes?

Tell that to the ministers with first world pay whom can only secure developing nation type of wages for the commoners who have to pay first world prices.

Tell that to those who claim they have a mandate to rule Singapore by 66.6%.

Tell that to the elite classes who dare claim that NUS is number 1 and implied that overseas Singaporean students are wasting their parents' money in Australia yet the elite send their own children overseas. They are already stomping on Singaporeans with Australian degrees readily when they do not even look at their own backyard.

There is no empowerment for citizens unless they belong to the elite classes. Any dissent is squashed with full force of law or threats of how one can make singapore sink down by that idea.

Until empowerment is achieved, your statement is as worthless as used toilet paper. Most have to be robotic in order to survive in an semi automated environment.

will4 SG

Tell that to the ministers with first world pay whom can only secure developing nation type of wages for the commoners who have to pay first world prices.

Tell that to those who claim they have a mandate to rule Singapore by 66.6%.

There is no empowerment for citizens unless they belong to the elite classes. Any dissent is squashed with full force of law or threats of how one can make singapore sink down by that idea.

Until empowerment is achieved, your statement is as worthless as used toilet paper. Most have to be robotic in order to survive in an semi automated environment.

I read that the Minister of National development is a graduate of Australian university, health minister is also a gradute from Australia, the Spore ambasador to US n the

deputy speaker of parliament also graduated from Australian university.

wheelcamp SG

That is why I am in Australia. I contribute and pay taxes to a country which has given me alot of opportunities, scholarships and a better lifestyle.

Working oversea also allows one to explore the country like a tourist living as a local there. Weekends can go out, got new things to try out and see. After a few years bored, can move elsewhere. In Singapore, nothing much to see or do in weekends.

ulquiorra87 SG

No matter who rules, our allegience is to the flag, and each one of us is responsible to make Spore better. And who better then a citizen to initiate and make such changes?

Don't forget that the purpose of a government(hence a country) is to serve its people.. Not the other way round. No people = no country in the first place. Don't make the people the means to the soverignty of the government. You see in American movies speak of patriotism because America stands for the liberty of its people (though not consistently in practice) SG simply stands for PAP..

Dont expect much alliegences from the people to a country that has done nothing but enslave them for its reputation and justified pay rise and more bullcrap

renze SG

Sad.

4sg SG

Dont expect much alliegences from the people to a country that has done nothing but enslave them for its reputation and justified pay rise and more bullcrap

Well said. But our govt thinks differently wor...

"He made it clear that people should not take on those in authority as 'equals'."
The Straits Times 20th Feb 1994, George Yeo Yong Boon.

Genie99a SG

Based n ur reply, i remember visiting a pub n there is this chinese national waitress saying she been in this country for some years n never like this country.

Based on my own account and biases...

China nationals will always want to migrate out of the country especially the common people..... even the rich. If they don't like Singapore it's highly probable they can't make it to somewhere else better at that time and have no choice.

When asked that question however most will go into "defensive" mode and won't admit it. Face is very important to them.

I have a rich chinese national friend and he jokes with me at times.... If a chinese national chick seems to take on to you.... always ask yourself if she is after PR or $.

will4 SG

Based on my own account and biases...

When asked that question however most will go into "defensive" mode and won't admit it. Face is very important to them.

I have a rich chinese national friend and he jokes with me at times.... If a chinese national chick seems to take on to you.... always ask yourself if she is after PR or $.

I also read that Gong Li is sucessful in gaining local citizenship but she never turned up for the citizenship ceremony.

Chunseah SG

Did anyone know that Gongli still a critizen if she never turn up for the ceremony

jojobeach SG

Did anyone know that Gongli still a critizen if she never turn up for the ceremony

So what if she didn't turn up for ceremony.. she already got her passport and pink IC already.

She is super star.. ofcors the authorities have to exempt her .

Too much work managing kaypoh people stargazing ya know ?

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