Education: SG vs Commonwealth system

Poh Ah Pak SG

ou sounds like SM Goh, who onces said to Catherine Lim, "if you haven't been in politics, don't talk to me about it."

That is very arrogant talk from Goh Chok Tong.

Very cocky.

eagle SG

This is true. Electronic and Electrical Engineering, mechanical engineering graduates will not find, or will find little relevance in the Singapore industries. Friends of mine landed in jobs as Bullion Traders, with degree in mechanical. But those doing chemical engineering are having good times in Singapore, many do internship in many of the petroleum and petro chemicals plants in Jurong island. Can't tell about their skills but Exxon Mobil, Shell are recruiting fresh graduates in chemical engineering to groom them, or nurture them....like the government scholars.

Electronic and Electrical Engineering, mechanical engineering graduates will not find, or will find little relevance in the Singapore industries.

Are you very very sure?

Melbournite SG

Hi Melbournite

Did U watch ABC channel last nite.....was on Education being the 3rd biggest industry in Oz.... abt how they charge high fees for foreigners to study in Oz.... Just wondering if the Unis here are run to generate revenue, then would they be world class standard....or would the standard be compromise so as to award degrees to more high fee paing foreigners....

I was told it is easier for a foreigner than a local to get into Oz Unis 'cos foreigner is a full fee paying student.

whether foreigner or local, u still need to meet the desired standard of performance for admssion from the tertiary institutions in Aus. They have a classiifcation of levels of various countries for international students for eg. Singapore and US are considered level 1 and pretty assured they meet the required standard in AUs. And they usualy give priority to locals first and the leftover places which are not filled from the local population are given to foreigners who can generate revenue who dont matter at all to their country. it is Australia u are talking about no messing around in that place.

No one told u foreigner is a full fee paying student and thus getting a place easier. its becuae australia has more Unis than singapore and they have lots of places available. That does not mean any tom, dick joe and harry can get a place so easily.

But in Singapore, although all the places can be 100% filled with the local population alone, places are still given to international studens and all these done under a system called meritocracy..Now this is what we call revenue generating for what is obviously a profit oriented institution. Now u tell me poly grads who succesfully graduated from poly passing all requirements , why are they still refused a place in NUS and NTU?

IBut isnt that the same scenario in singapore too?...Foreigners getting into local Uni when someone who studied his whole life locally cant get in even though passing the requirements?

Melbournite SG

It is immigration policy for the 5 years working experience if one holds a relevant foreign degree. It has absolutely nothing to do with NUS being a lesser Uni than Aussie Unis.

And if you are holding a relevant Aussie degree, why would u need 1 year working experience to get a PR. Is it because your degree is not a "Occupation in demand" degree like accountacy? Do you know what is Skills in Demand?

Aussie Unis also emphasize on grades. Then why do they have a grading system (HD, D, Credits, Pass, Fail). Why are those who graduates with honours and HD immediately offered jobs by big Corporations in Oz?

Personally having underwent 2 different educational systems, I do not think NUS is lacking as compared to Aussie Unis. I am so very grateful for having the chance to experiece the world class education I received from NUS, 'cos it makes my postgraduate studies in Melbourne a breeze....

Given the chance to choose again, I will still want to take my Bachelor in NUS. (I was only a mediocre student in NUS.) WHY? Because it gave me a very strong Foundation (including analytical thinking) that I can relate to the working world, be it in Singapore or Australia.

think first before u talk. because occupations in demand get a PR instantly? I dont think so now with the current rules u still ned to work 900 hours to get that PR, do u know that?,,,

The reason why u need 1 year of expereince if u studied in their local Uni is because unlike singapore uni, their are tied in to t e workplace and u learn a lot more staff about law and legislation regarding the country.

sgdiehard SG

Are you very very sure?

I am sure from the few engineering undergrads' complaints about the lack of opportunities for internship, I know it for sure in the petrochemical industries that Chemical engineers are much preferred over mechanical and electrical engineers. But that is from the few I know, and the petrochemical industries only.

I can be wrong. I don't know about all the other industries.

Tammiemeow SG

IBut isnt that the same scenario in singapore too?...Foreigners getting into local Uni when someone who studied his whole life locally cant get in even though passing the requirements?

Referring to your statement, R u not contradicting yourself....Only the best from the polys were offered places in NUS and NTU. Personally, I have known of a few TOP 5% in polys who were offered places in our local Unis.

Just like, not all JC students who pass 3 "A" levels were offered places in NUS, NTU or SMU.

U yourself stated S'pore system is called meritocracy, so you have technically answered what is the difference. There is no need for me to first think, then talk, 'cos your contradictorty arguments shows all....

Tammiemeow SG

i guess it is just the regulation aussie imposed on non-aus grad. i think a bit protectionist as well.

i am just reinforcing robert's point, partly in fun because what he said is the truth, not necessarily sensible. do you need to show your kangoo-phile uglyhead and defend australia uni at all costs? the world is big enuf for all to co-exist.

`nus grad is close to nothing' another strong statement from you that you will never be able to justify.

To Melbournite,

I fully agreed with redDust's opinions.

I feel that it is extremely rude to tell another to first think, then talk, especially if you are trying so hard to paint the impression that you come from an Aussie Uni that makes NUS looks like close to nothing...

Is this the attitude that one pick up at Aussie Unis.... Strange...Never notice this among my classmates in Mel. Maybe they are more gracious people who can indulge in a healthy discussion where everyone is entitled to their own opinions, without coming across as condescending.

I rest my case.

Melbournite SG

Just like, not all JC students who pass 3 "A" levels were offered places in NUS, NTU or SMU.

U said TOP 5%, let me tell u its top 5 % , get it? ..why all these selection criteria? it because there are not enough places and enough Unis , get that?...

But in AUS, recognition is given to prior learning and work expereince because this i believe is not meritocracy. Its true u need to meet certain requirements like English Language ect... thats basic, but what AUS does not really do is full meritocracy based on grades alone

Melbournite SG

To Melbournite,

I fully agreed with redDust's opinions.

I rest my case.

I am talking about the straight facts that are in my face and your face as well.. Facts are already presented to why and what is happening as a situation. But people , giving opinions , just opinions are not stating facts. ok

I still maintain that our education is still modelled after AUS, UK and US education. I dont thinkwithin 49 years we had our own system so suddenly without the help of our outside world. Get it?

So NUS did not came up living a 100 year old life like Adelaide Uni. NUS is just replicating the education industry in the world which is coming from the commonwealth system

Melbournite SG

It is immigration policy for the 5 years working experience if one holds a relevant foreign degree. It has absolutely nothing to do with NUS being a lesser Uni than Aussie Unis.

Refer to ReD: so what if NUS grad gets all HD grades and when he applies for PR , why isnt Immi recognise him since he is from best UNI , NUS?

Big corporations of course will hire those grads but not all corporations. It depends on what field the graduate studied especially if its an occupation like IT, nursing or Enginnering where specialisation is needed. I believe grades are not all everything. But in this case in AUS, those who got the grades are able to get jobs easily because the employers knew that they excelled in the field needing specialisation which i said earlier is tied in to the workplace. But that doesnt mean average grades are lousy in AUS, get it?

That average grade graduate student may have a higher level of EQ than IQ of the HD grade graduate.

we dont want certain "graduate" who is paranoid, and say conspiracies to do us all in ect ect..

Melbournite SG

Enough already... US education is the best! Singapore Uni are for bookworms and aristocrat wannabes; Aussie Uni are for lazy bump-arounds who wants a short-cut to a tertiary education

In my years of interviewing and hiring, except of the very few bright ones (mostly NUS; NTU students are geeks), most local graduates think that just because they have a local degree, the world owes them a living.

Beside US graduates, those who did their degree part-time usually turn out better too and probably why SMU students are catching my attention and preferred over NUS and NTU grads. Aussies? They come in and tell you they know everything but expect others to do their work for them. I’ve hired a few and fired just as many.

For me.. US is first choice, follow-by SMU, then part-timers and then probably UK graduates. Local grads have to try really, really hard to get my attention and trust.

But that’s just my view as an hiring manager…

If i am the employer i will not hire certain people who got all high marks in certain fields that have lot of rote learning. its because i know that these were done coughing out facts during exams. Excemption is accounting degree grads.

But business grads getting Distinctions and high grades are different altogether, its because unless other fields of study, business needs a broad level of thinking and involves a lot of presentatory and research material. So obviously these high flyer graders did it impressing their lecturers and somehow their work stood out among the rest of them.

eagle SG

I can be wrong. I don't know about all the other industries.

Internship is different, because mostly, interns do not contribute a lot to the company; rather, the company contributes the training and interns might not even return to the company after their internship period ends, thus in some cases, companies are rather reluctant to hire interns.

From what I know, the industries that electrical engineers are relevant and applicable are far and many. This includes the manufacturing industries, the research areas (IME, ASTAR), the military defence (DSO, DSTA, CSIT, ST Kinetics), system engineers and maintenance, etc. So I believe it is not right to say that these engineers will find little relevance in Sg industries.

However, chemical engineering graduates might find it easier to find a job perhaps because their numbers are far less than electrical/mechanical engineering graduates; that's the only reason I can think of if that's what you have observed.

eagle SG

That's what I told my friend when he was demoralised for getting quite a bad CAP, with only year 4 (1 year) left.

I told him that he should work very hard for an A for his final year project, because that shows that he can do work well, and the A is achieved by impressing his professors.

He did get an A for his Final Year Project in the end, and I'm happy for him.

pigsticker SG

never had good experience working with caucasians.... generally they take one week to respond to requests and when they finally do it, they tend to do it wrong and then it takes another week for us to get them to do the right thing...

maybe they had a well-rounded education but their working attitude leaves a lot to be desired for..

Melbournite SG

maybe they had a well-rounded education but their working attitude leaves a lot to be decired for..

because in their countries, things are did more slowly and carefully planned

pigsticker SG

because in their countries, things are did more slowly and carefully planned

slowly and carefully planned but still wrong?? if ypu cannot hand up in the desired timeframe, then at least do a good job.. not hand up a piece of shitty work when you are already past the deadline...

Melbournite SG

I dont think all caucasians are slow, some of them are pretty good...its not fair to generalise all...

Mostwanted5125 SG

I dont think all caucasians are slow, some of them are pretty good...its not fair to generalise all...

AND it is not fair to generalise our education system.... As far as I know, our system produces the most effective workforce.....

The engineers we have here are hardworking and fast in their work....they dont give lame excuses such as "u are restrictng my creativity" and tons of SH!TS....

Many of the locally produced students are equally creative-----see SMU students for urself!!!

They are hardworking and focused----see NUS students urself

They are innovative and motivated---see NTU students urself

Mostwanted5125 SG

IF NUS is best, why does AUs ask for work expereince of 5 years to apply for PR?

Let me tell u the story, unlike AUS Uni, they dont want graduate who vomit facts during exam and not know anything about real life working...

And NUS grad get job offer before graduatiion is because foreign MNC can only tap into the local market due to the grads familiarity with the country.. Now that the floodgates are opened for FT, NUS grad is close to nothing ..

I am amazed at ur level of stupidity......

AUS ask for work experience of 5 years not because NUS degree is inferior...rather it is to protect the aussies grads from foreign grads in job competition.

NUS is in the same league if not better than the melbourne uni of yours!!!

Fyi, MNCs come to spore because they trusted the level of education here....that is why they tap our local graduates!!! Which MNCs goes into a nation with stupid graduates and expect to produce hi-tech goods??? NONE.....This means our ppl are so well educated that they, the MNCS trust our talent pools and hence set up their companies here....

Stop ur nonsense of "oversea moon is rounder". I have exchange programmes b4 and went to the USA. I was so amazed when I got A* for quantum mechanics level 3. They only touches very basic mathematical aspect in Quantum mechanics unlike NUS.

So are u saying all NUS students are only good at vomiting facts??? Tell me how to vomit mathematics skills and reasoning and I will "prove" mathematically to you , that oversea Moon is indeed rounder!!!

Melbournite SG

I am amazed at ur level of stupidity......

AUS ask for work experience of 5 years not because NUS degree is inferior...rather it is to protect the aussies grads from foreign grads in job competition.

NUS is in the same league if not better than the melbourne uni of yours!!!

Yeah i am stupid, and Aussie education is inferior rite?...Listen to this NUS is nothing when compared to 100 year old Unis . So where did out template for education come from?..Its from those western countries lamer...

And local MNCs tapping into local educated population now is no longer valid since the floodgate for FTs has been opened. So if yr argument hold true, why are they not hiring local grads if NUS is so good over foreign grads in singapore. Go and have a reality check on why. A guy in a backyard in the US can have invented a car which runs entirely using water as fuel and your NUS grads did sh&t after graduating. What happened to their superior mathematical and reasoning skills. The only thing when u learn this in singapore very well is during Primary and secondary school. And thats about it.

On FYI, about yr argument on the US quantum physics thing, Let me tell u why they let u touch on the surface of that topic is because u are clearly so "best" compared to their own scholars who sent men to the moon in 1969, invented electricity, invented Windows operating system and invented all other things which your NUS now runs on.. U are "right", the US are lousier than Singapore's NUS. And so are inferior degrees from India and China who are chief engineers in Asus and Microsoft. Lamer.

Yeah is indeed true, overseas moon is indeed more rounder, and more intelligent as well...

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