Lackof traffic controllers leads to pilots talk to eachOther

lionnoisy SG

Shortage of traffic controllers leads to pilots in the air

(literally) in different aeroplanes talk to

each other for their positions , air speed and intentions!!

This is not a joke.This happened in

Seventeen flights between Sydney and Melbourne, and Sydney and Canberra were affected

I think if SG short of civil aviation traffic controllers to this situation,

the heads of SG CAAS management will form part of materials

for Changi East reclamation.

This was already reported in Jan 2008 in oz.

But this oz problems cant be solved so soon.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/out-of-control-17-flights-affected/2008/07/07/1215282712390.html

Paul Bibby
July 7, 2008 - 12:39PM

A spokeswoman for Air Services Australia said a similar incident had occurred in northern Australia sometime over the weekend of June 30 to July 1, but could not give the exact location.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/02/2130458.htm

Posted Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:00pm AEDT

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson says the problem is industry-wide.

"Aviation right around the world is short of pilots, short of controllers and short of maintainers - it's just a symptom of the boom in the industry," he said.

"Airservices Australia are recruiting more air traffic controllers at the moment, they've been talking to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority about this issue.

"We are satisfied they are managing this issue and there are no safety issues, but we'll keep a close watch on it."

Mr Gibson says the shortage has not affected safety, but it is having an impact on how Airservices Australia operates.

OMG!!---not affected safety!?

Dunt tell me it is a world wide problems.

Just get enough controllers on the seats,stupid!!

''This is ADF zero.Dunt block my flighting path,stupids!!

i alreday told u guys this is my flighting path!!

Get out of my way,now.Or i will crash into your ass!!''

PS i ask myself try not to post OZ threads.

But this one seem too much to ignore.

lionnoisy SG

I think if western pilots experience this in SG air space,

western medias would put this as big news.

I am wonder if international wire agency put this

as news.

If so,why does ST not report this news?

lionnoisy SG

I dunt think short of 2 % will make the situation so bad.

http://www.aviationnews.us/articles.php?art_id=5643&start=1

leaving air space north-west of Canberra unmonitored for two hours.

look at my first link.

This is damn good opportunity for pilots to revise their

skills talk to other pilots in other planes.

Next time if your planes delayed in oz air space.

u know why lah.

lionnoisy SG

3.Oh.The risk of Liability make controller not so keen

to help planes in distress!!This make me very worry:

http://www.natca.org/legislationcenter/australiaATC.msp

listen to what they says:

http://airtrafficcontroller.blogspot.com/

Well what can I say. It's been a while since my last post. We've also been running a six man roster with five people for god knows how long.

http://certifiedshafting.blogspot.com/2008/06/senator-mcguaran-union-hater-you-decide.html

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by noisylion:

oh lionnoisy been so q

let's see what Singapore aviation has been up to:

SIA pilot damages 274 million dollar aircraft and puts passengers at risk!

All this happened in OZ as well, damaging the reputation of Singapore Airlines right in the country lionnoisy talks so much about!

Safety investigation into incident described as "damming", SIA accepts blame for the incident:

"A SERIES of basic pilot errors led to a Singapore Airlines 747 dragging its tail about 500m along an Auckland Airport runway in March this year, a damning safety investigation has found.

The aircraft, flight SQ286 to Singapore, was forced to circle the airport on March 12 for about 20 minutes before making an emergency landing. None of the 369 passengers, 17 cabin crew, or three pilots was injured in the accident, but the tail of the plane was extensively damaged.

A Transport Accident Investigation Commission report, issued yesterday, says the aircraft's three pilots were almost completely to blame for the strike, which occurred when the captain tried to take off at too slow a speed.

It says the incident was the result of the first officer mistakenly entering an aircraft weight figure 100 tonnes lighter than that of the aircraft into his take-off speed calculations.

The captain then failed to pick up the error when he checked the calculation, the second officer did not check it and all three pilots failed to notice the difference between their own calculation and that of the flight management computer.

As a result, the captain "rotated" the plane to a takeoff angle at 123 knots (221km/h) rather than the correct 151 knots (272km/h).

With the plane failing to take off, it tilted 4 degrees more than normal, resulting in its tail striking the runway and dragging for 490m.

Singapore Airlines said yesterday that it accepted the report's findings in full and had demoted the captain. "

Dunt tell me that no. 1 airline in the world, so-called SIA well trained pilots

can drag tail of 274 million dollar aircraft and not know

putting everybody at risk

in world class airline is this acceptable?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by noisylion:

so called best airline SIA

pilots dunt want to fly!

till prime minister of Sg has to step in

pls read:

Singapore Airlines pilot reject compensation offer

Singapore Airlines pilots reportedly passed three resolutions on 16 August to reject the airline's offer of compensation for forcing pilots to take rest breaks in economy class seats.

From 1 August 2002, the carrier began earmarking all of its new bed-like first-class seats aboard its jumbo jet aircraft for paying passengers, thus forcing pilots to take their breaks in less expensive economy-class seats. A move which the pilots claim violates their 1998 contract.

Some 250 pilots voted to proceed with a secret ballot in three weeks to decide whether to pursue industrial action. The industrial action requires more than 50% of the votes to go ahead, reported Reuters.

Spartans SG

So what is your point?

To prove that Singapore has a better aviation struture compared to Australia? Singapore is better than Australia in everything? Is that your agenda?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by noisylion:

SIA spent millions on brand new B777s

but they broken and dunt can work!

cabin depressurization

A Singapore Airlines B777-200 aircraft en route to Beijing from Singapore reportedly lost cabin pressure approximately 90 minutes after departure, and had to return to Singapore's Changi Airport. The aircraft, which had 232 passengers and 13 crew on board, landed safely. There were no reports of injuries.

The incident occurred this past Saturday, February 2, 2008, while Singapore Airlines Flight SQ802 was at an altitude of 36,000 ft., say news reports. According to an article about the incident on Channel NewsAsia, the aircraft first made a rapid descent first to 32,000 ft, and then to 10,000 ft, at which point the situation stabilized. Cabin oxygen masks deployed during the descent.

Passengers were accommodated on other aircraft to continue their journey to Beijing.

fishbuff1 SG

all the better for traffic controller singaporeans to emigrate to australia to fill in the severe skilled labour shortages!

lionnoisy SG

STy,

I am just sharing unusual items.All are facts,as reported by

reliable sources and some SG pple may finds it interesting and useful.

No need to put bad sides of SG to counter my postings.

I ,as well as other,are fully aware of.

But i respect your rights to post anythings.

Other forumers will tell u off if they feel not ok.

I finds this news quiet disturbing.

How can foreigners flys blinds?But it is reality of life.

OZ outsources its traffic control to private company,

which will recruit 100 controllers,but it take 2 years to train.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23985670-601,00.html

Cameron Stewart | July 08, 2008

In online forums, one air traffic controller gives his version of an alleged mid-air incident last month between Thai Airways and British Airways jets over central Australia.

The controller wrote: "There was a clear conflict -- a few miles apart -- between a Thai Boeing 777 and a British Airways Boeing 777 crossing in (unmanned airspace). Personally, there is no way I would have flown on these aircraft if, as an innocent passenger, I knew what was going on.

"It was extremely scary to watch it on the screen ...

"I seriously doubt if any of the 250-odd paying passengers would have chosen to continue this flight in (unmanned airspace) had they known the ramifications and just how easily it all could have come undone. We have a massive duty of care here no matter what the circumstances, and to be honest the current published procedures for (unmanned airspace) is a disaster waiting to happen."

eagle SG

So Lionnoisy's point is everyone should take a cruise ship to Oz instead of flying there?

lionnoisy SG

So Lionnoisy's point is everyone should take a cruise ship to Oz instead of flying there?

Do at your own risks.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by noisylion:

hi lionnoisy,

i am noisylion dunt mistake me for STy

I am just sharing unusual items about SG.All are facts,as reported by

reliable sources and some Oz and SG pple may finds it interesting and useful.

No need to put bad sides of OZ to counter my postings.

I ,as well as other,are fully aware of.

But i respect your rights to post anythings even if your posts are always very nonsense like Gopalan blogs.

Other forumers have already tell u off if they feel not ok n even expose u for using clones.

but too bad u like Gopalan, never learn fro yr mistakes

I finds this news quiet disturbing.

How can SIA pilots threaten industral actions?But it is reality of life.

SIA opolicies not apparetly not world class to them all kinds of disputes arise over labour

how can 1st class airline have this?

u like unhappy pilots flying yr plane?

fly at your own risk, Oz air prolly safer

..... Singapore Airlines Group employed a total of 29,457 staff members at the end of the fiscal year on 31 March 2007.^[44] The parent airline itself employed 13,942 (47.3%), of which there are 2,174 pilots and 6,914 cabin crew. The group's employees are represented by five labour unions, namely the Singapore Airlines Staff Union (SIASU), the SIA Engineering Company Engineers and Executives Union (SEEU), the Singapore Airport Terminal Services Workers' Union (SATSWU), the Air Transport Executives Staff Union (AESU) and the Air Line Pilots' Association Singapore (ALPA-S).

Relations between the labour unions and the group management has been testy at times, particularly after wage cuts, retrenchments, and early retirement affected staff morale during and after difficult economic conditions such as the SARS outbreak in 2003.^[45] The ALPA-S alone has been involved in no less than 24 disputes with group management since its registration in May 1981 (itself formed after its predecessor, the Singapore Airlines Pilots Association had 15 EXCO members charged and convicted for initiating illegal industrial action in 1980 in the wake of disputes with management and the SIAPA was deregistered on 26 February 1981) up to 30 November 2003, when the Ministry of Manpower amended the Trade Unions Act to overule an item in ALPA-S's constitution requiring formal ratification from the general membership for negotiation agreements involving the executive committee

^.....

Disputes have also affected the unions, some so severe that they have attracted the intervention of the government. The internal feuding in ALPA-S which led to the ousting of the entire 22-member executive committee on 17 November 2003 was attributed to "internal politics" and theories that it may involve former pilots, including those involved in the deregistration of SIAPA.^[50] In January 2008, NTUC secretary-general Lim Swee Say spoke up against legal action by parties involved in an internal dispute in SIASU.^[51]

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

Do at your own risks.

Okay, since you like to crunch numbers so much, let's see what the risks really are using your kind of media-article reliant and selective number crunching logic:

Going by your logic, "do at your own risks" based on copy and pasting media articles one can conclude that SIA, despite being rated as a top airline is far less safe then Quantas.

In an airline accident rating on global airline safety history SIA ranked 76th out of 90 in the world and 15th out of 23 in the region, beaten by Malaysia Airlines and even Air China. It is also way behind Australia's Quantas Airways which ranked 17 out of 90 in the world and 3rd out of 23 in the same region as SIA.

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/rates.htm

^tamago^ SG

I think I love OZ more now.

^tamago^ SG

What a disgrace to Singaporeans…

lionnoisy SG

Okay, since you like to crunch numbers so much, let's see what the risks really are using your kind of media-article reliant and selective number crunching logic:

Going by your logic, "do at your own risks" based on copy and pasting media articles one can conclude that SIA, despite being rated as a top airline is far less safe then Quantas.

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/rates.htm

My Dear STy,

u better do a good deeds by distributing this info over the nets

to let all passengers know.u can save them.

but u also ask millions of SIA passenger who pays higher fares

travel on SIA iso other lines.Why are they so stupid?

Because they love LKY or PAP or HO CHING?

It seem SIA is the most profitable air line in the world,

in absolute terms.Tell me why?

Oh?I know---Temasek secretly hand out free SIA tickets to

pple all around the world.

Where can i get free SIA tickets,say to London?

While other lines,like Kangaroo one,have to cut routes or flights,

SIA still can run as normal.

redDUST SG

i agree, OZ is heading towards doomsday. they will obliterate from the face of the earth soon.

now, let's focus on singapore's issues at hand to make this the best ever place to live.

wonderamazement SG

shortage of around 200.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Originally posted by nosylion:

My Dear lionnoisy,

u better do a good deeds by helping others train their english better by seeing yr mistakes

to let all english learning people know.u can save them.

u want to know why SIA very profitible?

Son son, try to see big picture and not just small things

not means something is profitible is means its good

same reason why tabacco and bad things for health is also profitible

pple just dunt know

EA games bad labour policy, abuse employee

most profitible game company still what use?

NKF very profitible

end of day people still cheated and thoe exposing them sued

So what good profit? Good profit does not mean thing is good

Unless yr lifes all about money

ranking is from absolute numbers, lifes more important then money!

you only try to count moneys oh how sad!

SIA safe? guess they years behind OZ

can you tell me in absolute terms how come most profitible airline is only ranked 76th in safety?

Can you tell me in absolute terms how come Quantas makes more flights then SIA, but still got much better safety record?

How come you never answers safety questions when your this thread about air safety?

Oh dear, you talking about air safety suddent dunt can? Must talk about money?

My dear lionnoisy, how come you dunt dare to talk aout safety not talk about money?

Learning too much from Gopalan's blog, avoid questions and make up new and irrelevant argument?

SIA got industrial action and then govt. has to step in to make pilots obey

you dare fly SIA?

do at yr own risks

in our world class country, is ranking

remember this is about lives not money

but you talk like money more important then lives

surprising, you will support

you really for SG pple or are you just want to trade their money for lives?

have you heard of ethics?

pls read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics