Free Tibet!!!!

last SG · 2008-03-18T07:08:16+00:00

My esteem for the Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao went down a notch when he blatantly accuse the Dalai Lama of "orchestrating protests against Chinese rule in Tib...

Poh Ah Pak SG

Ya lor, so fucking cute, the fucking turtles.

They should eat ugly animals like pigs.

newcomer SG

pigs ugly meh? they taste good tho.

Poh Ah Pak SG

I like char siew rice.

newcomer SG

i like sao rou fan.

Arapahoe SG

Ya lor, smells like horseshit. We must beware of instigators, agitators, propagandists, provocateurs, zealots, charlatans and crackpots

Please read the news have your hear news about the protest from London, Paris, SFO. Did you see any government came out and supported any of these protest? The answer is NO. Chinese official had already warned every gov and states not to protest or set any legislature motion to boycot the Olypmic. Even California Gov came out against politising the Game. Consequences of such protest will be met with impunity from China.

Until you wake up and smell the air. You seriously think this is another Western Propagandists!!! The Protest are all by the people, civilians practice their Rights. A concept is hard to practice in SG. but that doesn't mean it is not practice around the globe.

Arapahoe SG

is freeing tibet freeing the buddhists?

Drepung Monastery in Lhasa, Tibet’s capital is currently under intense restrictions following a crackdown order issued by the “Tibet Autonomous Region” (“TAR”) government authorities on monks sitting on mass silent protest, according to confirmed information received by the Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy (TCHRD). Reportedly the situation is tense and the monastery put under tight control by the Chinese authorities.

Since the first week of October 2005, “work team” officials have been conducting the “patriotic education” campaign in the monastery. During the Campaign, on 23 November 2005, the monks were ordered to sign a document denouncing the Dalai Lama as a “separatist” and to pledge their loyalty to the Chinese government by accepting “Tibet as a part of China”. The monks showed their disagreement to the official directive and refused to sign the document. Among the monks, five showed strong reactions against the document and the officials. They were immediately expelled from the monastery and handed over to the Public Security Bureau (PSB) Detention Centres in their respective places of origin

When you expelled a monk from his own temple they become an outcast monk. When they are in huge numbers they became Rebel Monks.

Look at it this way, do you seriously think religion idea such as Buddhism can be manipulated without the abilities to freely pursue and question? the Classic Story. The Prince who is sheltered always from human suffering in his young adult, and at later life discovered the source of all human suffering? How do you fit “Patriotic education” into this enlightening process?

Meat Pao SG

Hi...

Firstly I dont totally blame the Western civillians holding placards and even waving Tibetan flags. I dont totally blame them. It is very human isnt it..?

They are also victims themselves. They dont know much but they have a certain belief or a picture in their mind, created by their media, the same media which conned them into supporting Iraq war afew years ago. It is not really their fault.

Maybe for me, I imagine, if I read CNN, watch American news, I will form a picture in my mind too. An example, now I have a picture in my mind that Zimbabwe is bad and Rubert Mugabe is bad, why, because I read CNN and they say about him cheating elections and that his party and his war veterans there took over white-owned farms.

So now in my mind I form a bad impression about Zimbabwe, without me really knowing the history of Zimbabwe, what is its racial relations, and what is the whole deal the land-reform is about. I have no idea about all these things, never talk to a Zimbabwean, never been to Zimbabwe, dont know anything. So what do u expect..?

Similarly those Western people, I even saw a young white woman painting her face in Tibetan flag pattern. I really wonder if she really knows what she is involving herself in.

But again, I dont totally blame her, I mean what do u expect..? Media is very powerful, people with some knowledge and familiarity can notice a few things, such as us in Asia, but what do u think someone like her in her place will think and behave...?

And if we make another important note, I think it's important not to assume all Tibetans want independence. Why I say so.....if we look at those Tibetan protestors on TV, they are the group of people who are Exile Tibetans. Actually they dont represent Tibetans. They are overseas Tibetans, living in foreign countries, and many are decendants of political Tibetans or fighters who fought and lost in the 1950s war funded by CIA. They are political opponents of China.

A similar example is Exile Cubans. In foreign country, in Miami now there are alot of Exile Cubans and they are decendants of political groups who opposed and fought Castro and helped by CIA in the past. Now they are still noisy and political, but do u think those Exile Cubans living in Miami represent the average Cuban people inside Cuba..?

Those Exile Cubans hate Castro and want to overthrow him, but in Cuba itself, how come Castro can make speeches attended by so many people..? So do they represent the average Cuban in Cuba..?

And those overseas Exile Tibetans....what do u think..? Do u really think they represent the average Tibetan in Tibet..? I think quite afew of them are actually born in those Western countries, and never even set foot in Tibet, or China. They are in their own orbit and still living in a time warp, while in Tibet, things are changing and the society is moving.

Nowadays, not only people from other provinces live in Tibet (and Dalai Lama making a rather racist statement of 'cultural genocide' and 'demographic aggresion', make ur own judgement) , but also many Tibetans live in other provinces too.

One or two more generations, and these political Exile Tibetans will just naturally vanish, their cause will be irrelevant and obsolete.

Meat Pao.

Poh Ah Pak SG

You have a broad outlook on international politics Meat Pao.

You don't have a narrow outlook.

We must examine facts and evidence to arrive at the truth.

We must never blindly follow propaganda.

I am wary of the anglo-american media and their bias.

Arapahoe SG

Firstly I dont totally blame the Western civillians holding placards and even waving Tibetan flags. I dont totally blame them

Do you honestly think that all these folks who protest against the action of the Chinese communist is because they watch TV? And news? How detact are you? There are plenty of Chinese stay across the world, the world is not ignorance of Chinese. Today environment is not like in the 80s where people watch TV and see tanks roll into Tianamen square. The protest is not a single event, these are cumulative event that stretch from Myanmar , Dafur, and continue to Tibet.

Look at what the Chinese gov are saying?

She said the relay would press on despite protests and demonstrations, Xinhua reported.

"We express our strong condemnation to the deliberate disruption of the Olympic torch relay by 'Tibetan independence' separatist forces regardless of the Olympic spirit and the law of Britain and France," Jiang said, according to Xinhua.

“Tibetan Independence separatist forces” What is that? The lama has been out for decade giving speeches meeting world leaders. It won the Noble Price. It has a voice. People from around the world Listen and are supporting his movement. The Communist continued to treat him as some kind of idiot dissident, totally ignorance of what supporters of tibets are saying?

One or two more generations, and these political Exile Tibetans will just naturally vanish, their cause will be irrelevant and obsolete.

This come straight from your mouth. Any wonder why would Tibet be struggling for their identity.

Read this quote:

In order to achieve both internal and external progresses appropriate for modern times, having modern education is extremely important. The reality of the situation in Tibet today is such that one has no choice but to rely on Chinese language if one is to become modern educated.

One thing that comes to my mind is this: Suppose there are a hundred Tibetan students. Seventy or eighty such students could study Tibetan language as their main subject and achieve excellence in projecting one's national identity and in preserving our cultural heritage. Twenty or thirty such students could study Chinese language as their main subject and make efforts to achieve professional qualifications in modern specialised subjects. I feel this to be important, do you understand?

So if you seriously think this is the end of it think again, cause there will be something else and China can continue to close your Eyes and Mind and point fingers just like Ah Pak. Blame it on Western Propaganda.

Poh Ah Pak SG

Suppose there are a hundred Tibetan students. Seventy or eighty such students could study Tibetan language as their main subject and achieve excellence in projecting one's national identity and in preserving our cultural heritage. Twenty or thirty such students could study Chinese language as their main subject and make efforts to achieve professional qualifications in modern specialised subjects. I feel this to be important, do you understand?

I agree with you. Protection of cultural values and identity is important.

So how do you think our education system in Singapore can be reformed to reflect this?

idiotbutcherer SG

So what I said previously was proven.....this whole Tibet thing is just a tool for some people who have issues with Sinophobia to throw things at China.

The turtle soup topic pop up because some chinese in this forum think that the WEST continue to be bias against china. And that Eating up the entire species is bias against china and china bashing. But of course why do you care to eat up another country species after all you perceived that we all live in a seperate planet.

Well Loo at the Olypmic torch it got extinct 3 times in Paris. China Bashing yes you r right but Reaction is usually a demonstration of displeasure of the people. A concept that you would be blind side by your own culture and nation hood.

For your info this is SG forum not China forum.

You have absolutely mis-represented my original argument. My argument was not that it is wrong for the West to criticize the eating habits of other races (although that in itself could be argued against ).

My argument is that in the article from Reuters I cited, the author fails to provide any justification for the claim that China is reponsible for the decline of Texas' turtle population and yet it did prevent the author of that article from putting the sole blame on China. What would the intention be?

Remember the external truth of the claim itself is immaterial in this case. If the author believed that her claim is true, she should have provided justification and substantiation. Then her criticism on China would be a fair one. The fact that she did not provide any substantiation for her claim means that she herself is uncertain with respect to the truth value of the claim. But that did not prevent her from asserting precisely this claim and censuring China based on it. What are the intentions, if other than slandering and black-washing China, I ask?

You cited another article which explicitly lists the statistics of turtles being exported to Hong Kong, Taiwan and China. That is immaterial, if you followed the logic of my argument. The truth remains that the author of the Reuters article was not able to produce or cite such statistics. Therefore, her allegations were not in good faith. I hope you are cognizant enough to follow the logic.

If somebody is making accusations against you without providing any evidence, what would that be called? Think about it.

The link to that article is provided here once again if someone is interested: http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1021710120070722

My point therefore is not about Western criticism per se. For instance, if they say that the Chinese government is suppressing freedom of speech, I would wholly agree because it is true.

It is about them lodging allegations against China often with no substantive evidence (as illustrated by the two examples I cited in my original post). In the height of this, some of them were quick to craft evidence to blackwash China as shown in the numerous Tibetan reports where Nepalese and Indian police brutality scenes were used in reports that censure China for cracking down on "peaceful protests". One of the numerous examples is provided below, which after almost one month, is still shamelessly existing on the Times online website with all the atrocious factual errors:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3538028.ece

For additional evidence from a neutral source, read this:

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20080326_1.htm

If one still thinks that I am making a big fuss over the Fair and Balanced Western media, I shall have nothing to say.

Poh Ah Pak SG

the Fair and Balanced Western media

Don't make me laugh. That is propaganda.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3315

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3303

sgdiehard SG

The Dalai Lama is the religious leader of the Tibetans and a holy man.
Over the years, he has gradually been doing his utmost to free himself from being the pawn of anti-China groupings.
The Dalai Lama has denounced publicly the use of violence by all concerned, including the anti-China elements of the Tibetan community. He condemned the current spate of violence and repeated what he told Jonathan Mirsky of the Observer newspaper, London, more than fifteen years ago, that if the majority of the Tibetans in Tibet resorted to violence in their freedom struggle, he would have no option but to resign as spokesperson of the Tibetan people.
He has also said that the Tibetans and the rest of China have to learn to live together in peace.

On the issue of independence, he reiterated that what he is seeking is meaningful autonomy for the Tibetan people.

See the official website of the Dalai Lama.

Do people from around the world Listen to the voice of Dalai Lama?

One thing that comes to my mind is this: Suppose there are a hundred Tibetan students. Seventy or eighty such students could study Tibetan language as their main subject and achieve excellence in projecting one's national identity and in preserving our cultural heritage. Twenty or thirty such students could study Chinese language as their main subject and make efforts to achieve professional qualifications in modern specialised subjects. I feel this to be important, do you understand?

This para really make me laugh. It reminded me of Singapore a generation ago. The reality of the situation in Singapore then was such that one had no choice but to rely on English language if one is to become modern educated. So we had a whole generation of Singaporean Chinese who can’t speak Chinese, don’t know their cultural heritage.

Then the government started streaming, so that the “twenty or thirty students could study to achieve professional qualifications in modern specialized subjects”, these are now called “Elite”. But the “Seventy or eighty such students” also want to be modern, who wants to preserve national identity and preserve cultural heritage. So the English speaking Singaporean Chinese thought they all can be “精英” , but then the world changed with China coming up, so everybody learn Chinese and the “精华” evolve, so the ““精英” run to Australia, and from there they shout for “FREE SINGAPORE”.

sgdiehard SG

Correction to my last post.

Last para line 7 should read "nobody want to preserve national identity and preserve cultural heritage."

Poh Ah Pak SG

PAP policies on cultural identity really make me laugh.

I sometimes don't know whether to laugh or cry with the PAP.

I usually laugh at them.

Tibetan cultural identity?

You don't have to go that far to protect cultural identity.

You can do that right HERE, right NOW.

idiotbutcherer SG

Let me briefly sum up what happened in the past few weeks:

A group of Tibetans , for whatever reason decided to go to the street with long knives and bricks and attacked and killed anybody that looked Chinese. In addition, they set fires on shops and looted banks and stores. They also burned some civilian han Chinese alive.

The Chinese anti-riot police intervened albeit with great constraint.

The Western media all report in one voice: Chinese troops are cracking down on peaceful Tibetan demonstrators. They had to use pictures from India and Nepal for effect.

World-wide anti-China sentiments are incited and the voice for boycotting Olympics is growing all the more shrill.

Chinese nationals pointed out the factual errors of Western media reports. They are summarily told that they have been brainwashed by the Chinese government, (although CNN actually bothered to issue a statement in its defense, which by the way we provided a robust rebuttal to). Chinese nationals are also told that the Chinese media is rotten and logically they have no right to criticize Western media which of course is fair and all-rounded with no agenda behind it.

Arapahoe SG

Last para line 7 should read "nobody want to preserve national identity and preserve cultural heritage."

That would be your own position. The number does sound silly but the point he was making was to create a balance of changed. Preservation of the cultured.

In any case how do you put SG with Tibet. in different part of History. Singapore took the decision to pick up English and that leads to development as it is today. Future change and SG will have to make changes, if today MY n Indo are the economics power we would be writting Bahasa.

Poh Ah Pak SG

PAP force us to study alien language.

CCP force tibetans to study alien language.

What's the difference?

idiotbutcherer SG

PAP force us to study alien language.

CCP force tibetans to study alien language.

What's the difference?

Let me tell you what the difference: it is because it is CCP.

Michael Parenti, renowned expert on Tibet in an interview published on YouTube says this: "...Dalai Lama was made into a hero because it was the Chinese communists who kind of unseated him. So he is seen as somebody to be much admired..."

You should understand the political under-currents in today's Western world.

The link to that Youtube clip is as follows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWGGjpJJCKE

Poh Ah Pak SG

The issue is not about Tibet.

That is not the motivation.

The main motivation is China's power.

That is the main motivation.

They want to weaken China's power and influence.

I won't allow USA to succeed.

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