Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders

last SG · 2007-11-06T15:52:04+00:00

Yes, good or bad sometimes depend on the situations.But there are obective standards for an act too. Drinking bear can be considered good because the drink...

stupidissmart SG

Ban what? Ban their right to live?

Ban them to have a right to have sex. Tat is already very serious itself isn't it ?

Yup, I talking about 377A - there are good reasons to let it remain in our penal code

Like ?

Actually medicines are also natural in origins. Just that humans go one step further and combine the chemicals inside and manufacture pills and syrups.

If you want to quote something unnatural, at least quote ICSI.

Then why is homosexual not nature when it is found in many species of animals unnature while manmade medicine combining manmade chemicals using manmade method tat cannot be found in nature, nature ? Is surgery nature ? Don't tell me men will develop arm inside his body and cut itself.

Icemoon SG

Not sure about that. Maybe all gays are actually bisexuals. Laughing

Duh !
U know there is a policeman who get charged whil doing oral sex privately. His girlfriend is the one tat do the complaining.

I forgotten the details liao .. can describe? That Malay policeman right? Why did gf complain?

I suppose we should limit the discussion to acts between consenting adults. The law is ammo for the State. Unfortunately it is ammo for certain individuals as well. For example, we all applause when a rape offender is given maximum sentence (for that, prosecution can bring in rape law, incest law, even oral sex law). However we sympathesize with guys whose girlfriends shout rape or oral sex on them. Well, I don't think we should repeal rape law because of that, right?

stupidissmart SG

Not sure about that. Maybe all gays are actually bisexuals

Check wiki and dictionary. I have talked about tis before

Homosexuality can refer to both attraction or sexual behavior between organisms of the same sex, or to a sexual orientation.

..

Homosexuality is contrasted with heterosexuality (attraction, behavior, or orientation between opposite sexes), bisexuality (both sexes), and asexuality (neither sex).

Homosexual is not equal to bisexual.

If u want to say "maybe", then prove it. Prove homosexual does not exist.

I forgotten the details liao .. can describe? That Malay policeman right? Why did gf complain?

They broke up

I suppose we should limit the discussion to acts between consenting adults. The law is ammo for the State. Unfortunately it is ammo for certain individuals as well. For example, we all applause when a rape offender is given maximum sentence (for that, prosecution can bring in rape law, incest law, even oral sex law). However we sympathesize with guys whose girlfriends shout rape or oral sex on them. Well, I don't think we should repeal rape law because of that, right?

They r consenting adults. But the law is worded such a way tat it is illegal even if they r consenting.

Icemoon SG

*shrug* .. I look at situations pragmatically. If you enact a law that looks good on paper but cant be enforced .. so what? Similary, I believe there are good reasons to keep the status quo on 377A.

While legally their right is banned, on the ground .. who cares? Just like oral sex was still rampant last time.

If you ask me, I believe there are more important things to fight for than 377A. For example, discrimination laws against gays in the civil service, if they still exist.

Like ?

The govt has stated her position. You, as the more well read person, know better than me.

I asked last time how is 'nature' defined. It is surely not darwinian in nature, since the role of sex is to pass down your genes. However it is nature in the sense we can find it in nature.

stupidissmart SG

*shrug* .. I look at situations pragmatically. If you enact a law that looks good on paper but cant be enforced .. so what? Similary, I believe there are good reasons to keep the status quo on 377A.

Why force such a law to be present ?

While legally their right is banned, on the ground .. who cares? Just like oral sex was still rampant last time.

Only u and anti gay don't care don't care ba.

If you ask me, I believe there are more important things to fight for than 377A. For example, discrimination laws against gays in the civil service, if they still exist.

We start from 377A

The govt has stated her position. You, as the more well read person, know better than me

The reason they give, IMO is just tat there r bigots around in singapore and tat is why it stay. To me it is an absurb reason, not tat I blame the gov but i blame the bigots

I asked last time how is 'nature' defined. It is surely not darwinian in nature, since the role of sex is to pass down your genes. However it is nature in the sense we can find it in nature.

Then ? I just show tat saying homosexual sex is unnatural is the same rational as saying medicine and surgery is unnatural and not darwanian. People who get diesease easily should die and leave the healthier population reproducing.

Icemoon SG

I mean if sexual orientation can be switched, then conceivably one can alternate between, hetero, bi and homo states. Laughing

Well, there is no evidence to suggest sexual orientation cannot be switched.

They r consenting adults. But the law is worded such a way tat it is illegal even if they r consenting.

Yup, have to be or else we can throw the law out.

Icemoon SG

This is a big mistake.

The way to repeal 377A is to start from public perception. And discrimination laws stem from public perception.

The reason they give, IMO is just tat there r bigots around in singapore and tat is why it stay. To me it is an absurb reason, not tat I blame the gov but i blame the bigots

The main reason they give is the majority still doesn't approve of it.

Then ? I just show tat saying homosexual sex is unnatural is the same rational as saying medicine and surgery is unnatural. Wat does it matter anyway ?

*shrugs*

Using the nature argument can get pretty dangerous. I read some animals kill their spouse .. like praying mantis? You wouldn't want your wife to do the same to you. Laughing

stupidissmart SG

I mean if sexual orientation can be switched, then conceivably one can alternate between, hetero, bi and homo states.

Well, there is no evidence to suggest sexual orientation cannot be switched.

Well, I and most people in the world don't switch sexual orientation. U say people do. Prove it

Yup, have to be or else we can throw the law out.

377 is thrown out. Surprisingly 377A is not

stupidissmart SG

This is a big mistake.

The way to repeal 377A is to start from public perception. And discrimination laws stem from public perception.

The main reason they give is the majority still doesn't approve of it.

There is actually no evidence tat states majority do not approve it. I believe the majority is silent. Furthermore, it does not means it is the right thing to do. It shows the tyranny of the masses.

*shrugs*

Using the nature argument can get pretty dangerous. I read some animals kill their spouse .. like praying mantis? You wouldn't want your wife to do the same to you

Tat is right. It is the anti gay people who uses tis argument frequently isn't it ?

Icemoon SG

Hard to say lah.

Maybe our sexual orientation is like spectrum, after some super bad experience your orientation can be switched.

stupidissmart SG

Hard to say lah.

Maybe our sexual orientation is like spectrum, after some super bad experience your orientation can be switched.

Prove it la. U say I thought who confirm ?

Icemoon SG

There are statistics.

http://www.spug.sg/forums/showthread.php?t=89718

A survey by Today this year showed that people here are still conservative.

Asked if homosexuality should be made legal, 62.3 per cent of 300 respondents disagreed 25.3 per cent strongly so.

Only 11.6 per cent thought it should be legalised while interestingly, 26 per cent had no views either way.

No leh .. the anti gay people do not use the nature argument. They use the religious or moral argument. Laughing

Icemoon SG

You cant prove a negative .. that is the problem.

If I find 1 million people who successfully switch orientation .. you can always say they are bisexuals to begin with.

You must find a straight to begin with, prove that this straight will forever remain a straight. But this is circular reasoning? 'cos we haven't prove whether straight-only exists in this world. Wink

stupidissmart SG

There are statistics

Where ? I don't remember me or anyone I knew being asked. 300 is too little isn't it ? 4,500,000 compared with 300 ? Where do they get their sample ? From the church ?

No leh .. the anti gay people do not use the nature argument. They use the religious or moral argument

They do. Tell tat to PRP. And religious arguments also bring in nature to verify their position because otherwise they r guilty of shoving their belief down other people throat

You cant prove a negative .. that is the problem.

If I find 1 million people who successfully switch orientation .. you can always say they are bisexuals to begin with.

Then let me show u a statement first

The American Psychological Association (APA) states that homosexuality "is not changeable", and that attempts at eliminating same-sex attractions are not effective and are potentially harmful.[74] More generally, the APA states, "psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed",[74] and in 2001 United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report maintaining that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed".[

U know wat, I check tat throughout the world, almost only african and muslim countries banned homosexual. Check figure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_homosexuality_laws.svg

Icemoon SG

I said statistics .. not census.

They do. Tell tat to PRP. And religious arguments also bring in nature to verify their position because otherwise they r guilty of shoving their belief down other people throat

You guys use the term 'nature' differently.

You can say homosexuality is rampant in the animal world. PRP can say homosexuality is not natural in darwinian terms.

Ouch .. the mention of APA rings the alarm bell.

OT a little, actually sexual orientation can indeed be changed, using innovative means.

If you are interested - http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nn2019.html

stupidissmart SG

You guys use the term 'nature' differently.

You can say homosexuality is rampant in the animal world. PRP can say homosexuality is not natural in darwinian terms.

Medicine is not notaural in darwanian terms ?

U mean injecting something into homosexual ? First, it is not proven to work in human. Second, no one know wat is the effect of injecting somehting into human. Third, it prove homosexual is physical/biological in nature

Icemoon SG

It is .. you are increasing your chance of survivial.

Just a thought. Only time will tell.

happieman SG

December 19, 2007

IT giant IBM to host LGBTI workforce issues session at melbourne outgames conference

By News Editor

Icemoon SG

What is the I?

PRP SG

I doubt SIS can be convinced to change his stand.So no point to debate with him?

I don't know his stand is no right & wrong about homo or homo is not wrong.Would he please state his stand.I think just debate about this point should be good enough.Otherwise the debates become unfocus.

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