Pedra Branca D-Day is 6 Nov 07

CX SG

I do not doubt the strategic value of those rocks. But to illustrate the WORST case scenario: ICJ rules that Malaysia owns the rocks and we are only the light-house operator.

What then? Truth be told, its not the end of the world.

We're still the lighthouse operator.

We have to understand the substance of the Malaysian claim: to make the legal argument coherent, they have to agree to an interpretation of the colonial treaties and arrangements. Hence, it doesn't change the status quo much.

In sum, they do not dispute that SG "owns" the lighthouse on Pedra Branca.

At worst, we dismantle the "sensitive" facilities, or we explain what they're for and ask for permission to keep them.

Its not like we got a squadron of Gundams hidden under that rock.

We effectively "lose" nothing because we must respect the decisions of the ICJ. Such is the conduct of responsible and civilised countries.

BUT if ICJ rules that Singapore holds sovereignty over Pedra Pranca, then our strategic interests are protected, the status quo is maintained and our position is strengthened in our conduct of diplomacy with Malaysia in future.

In both scenarios, trade will flow. Right of innocent passage through the seas will be upheld and life will go on.

ICJ's decision will actually help us to move forward on many outstanding bilateral issues.

IaiCn SG

Just looking around. Nice to read the points raised. Juz wanna say kudos to CX for the manner of his reply. I saw at least 3 not-so-nice words from PKYap directed at CX - "idiotic, naive, fawning ...." but yet he chose to reply objectively (IMHO) to those comments.

thumbs-up!

AndrewPKYap SG

are you CX's clone? I could have also created a clone account and pointed out that CX was obnoxious first by saying things like... "u're a waste of time" instead of answering my points and then after he said I was a waste of time, he kept replying... so you think the words, "idiotic, naive, fawning ...." applies to CX or not? CX's clone? Laughing

IaiCn
Junior Member

Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1

Laughing

AndrewPKYap SG

but not a disputed territory....

and why didn't Malaysia object to the Pulau Tekong camps? Because it is not disputed...

...and the US objected to the Soviets building missile silos in Cuba and are you going to say that the US should not and could not object becuase Cuba is a sovereign state? Rolling Eyes

You can argue all you want, but until the Singapore side dispute the fact that they started the mess with their arrogant despotic behavior, by not conceding the point raise by Malaysia in the ICJ... it is ingenious of you to try to defend them and like I said, in supporting despotic arrogant self serving behavior of dictators, you are a traitor of the country.

AndrewPKYap SG

and let me preempt CX clone

[quote]IaiCn
Junior Member

Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1

's objections to my using the word "traitor" let me remind him that it was CX that first used the word...
Laughing

CX SG

Firstly, not my clone.

Secondly, your bully-boy tactics of insulting everyone that steps up in objection of your point is no difference from the "despot" and "dictators" that you claim to dissent against.

Wake up here... I'm not the only one here who thinks that your views are flawed.

CX SG

I could say the same of you. Quisling... betraying your own country and advocating capitulation rather than the defence of sovereignty.

The facts from the memorials filed by both sides are clear to me and your clumsy paraphrasing and utter ignorance is tiring and as I said before, a waste of time.

AndrewPKYap SG

It does not matter what you or others believe because I do not do beliefs but I base my arguments on evidence.... the evidence shows that Malaysia in court produced evidence that the mess started because the despotic arrogant dictators put military equipment on PD, a disputed territory... and Singapore conceded that point...

...you base your conclusions on beliefs? Very good, please continue with the delusions in yours and your fellow believers' heads.... Mr. Green

Short Ninja SG

Like waiting nine months for a baby to be born and then.... Shocked Shocked Shocked How come father Chinaman but Baby black??? I suggest its no point arguing over this but just wait for 9mths.

AndrewPKYap SG

The point is this... the despots, because of their ass-sniffing supporters that are willing to support them even when the do cronyism and take massive amounts of public money for their salaries... are traitors to this country...

... and in this case, where Malaysia had produce evidence in court that shows the despots started this no win mess (if Malaysia wins, Singapore lose massively, if Singapore wins, they win the ability to put military installations on PD, big deal... only despots think that they can win if they start a war) ...

... yet the ass-sniffing supporters refuse to acknowledge this proven fact based on evidence produce in the international court. That is why they are so despotic and arrogant and their ass-sniffing supporters are traitors to Singapore... putting their masters interest above the interests of the nation...

hloc SG

Lets hope the AngMor could work faster and do it 6mth.

I think today Indonesia KPPU is going to release the judgment on the Temasek telco saga...... Confused

AndrewPKYap SG

ERP, COE, exorbitant housing… medical… transport…. money taken away for their own benefits and to benefit foreigners and the traitors of the nation continue to blindly support them without question and without demanding accountability and transparency … sigh

CX SG

Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
It does not matter what you or others believe because I do not do beliefs ...

I think that sums up all your points quite concisely...

So everyone else is wrong but u're right.

...you base your conclusions on beliefs? Very good, please continue with the delusions in yours and your fellow believers' heads.... Mr. Green

I based my views on a proper reading of the memorials, the press reports (both past and present) and a sound understanding of international practices.

Your so-called "facts" are merely hyperbolic expressions of your own anti-government views.

There are no "conclusions" to this issue yet. As some have pointed out, there's still 6 to 9 mths before ICJ rules on the matter.

This is of course, something which cuts no ice with you because in your eagerness to "win" in this discussion, the case is already closed and everybody who disagrees with you is already wrong.

AndrewPKYap SG

and you conveniently choose to ignore evidence produced in court... sure, please continue with your delusions and ignore evidence produced in an international court of law... Rolling Eyes

CX SG

And SG has presented nothing during the first 4 days of the proceedings?

Both sides presented strong evidence to further their claim over the island.

I will be more interested to see how both sides attempt to reply to the claims forwarded by each other rather than to jump to any premature conclusions about who's "right" and who's "wrong".

AndrewPKYap SG

the point is, their arrogant and despotic behavior started this mess and you choose to ignore court evidence of this…

CX SG

As I objected to Atobe's take on the subject with regards to press coverage (although he had a much more balanced perspective than yourself) at the earlier part of this discussion, I will make a similar observation on your approach to your "so-called-facts".

They are based on an overly narrow and selective reading of press articles and have no bearing on the actual conduct of the case.

If you care to take a look, the conclusion of the Malaysian oral proceedings are already on the ICJ website and I would like to point out that the earlier points on military installations built by SG did not even appear in the conclusions.

So once again, what "court evidence"? If it was such a big deal, then it would be expected that it should be raised as often as possible, in as forceful a manner as possible in the ICJ.

But it was not. It was a mere one-off comment uttered on the first day of the presentation that was vigorously published by the Malaysian press.

And what you perceive as "arrogant and despotic behavior" is basically hyperbole reflecting your own anti-government stance.

Its normal for a country to vigorously defend its territorial sovereignty.

Short Ninja SG

Its the angmor job because they were the ones who went around dividing the globe ,naming countries like it was a Birthday Cake.A lot of people were short changed during colonial rule and Johor was one of them.So this is the mess the Angmor should have cleared up yesterday before they left.

hloc SG

Since the AngMor didn't do it..... we would have to do it ourselves.

IMHO..... much better that both S'pore & Malaysia is 'settling' this problem infront of the ICJ sooner than later. We will know the result in a few months time...... But my bet is on S'pore winning Mr. Green

AndrewPKYap SG

You doubt that the quote

What it took issue with was what Tan Sri Abdul Kadir called Singapore's 'military presence on one of Johor's islands'.

He was referring to Singapore's placing of military communications equipment on Pedra Branca, which Singapore had cited as one of the ways in which it had displayed its sovereignty over the disputed island.
Copyright, 2007, Singapore Press Holdings Limited

was not based on court evidence? That SPH was lying and it was not presented as court evidence? You are more delusional than I thought.

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