Are you able to tell me who took up the 172,400 jobs created

qlqq9 SG

hey I am not into all these figures from them. FRankly, if they want to mislead Singaporeans, you think they will be truthful to publish real accurate figures? Don't need figures, just go round companies in Singapore, you will be able to see there are getting more and more FTs and FWs to replace Singaporeans. Not too long ago, I went to a company and among the 20 staff there, only 3 locals are working there. So pathetic! They even get a Indian FW to do the job of a tea lady cum cleaner. I shake my head.

eagle SG

This is something inevitable in every country whose economy is growing faster than its neighbours. The only hope is that there are extra jobs that will spill over to Singaporeans.

qlqq9 SG

You need to be working and be affected to see the reality and facts of life created by the leegime in Singapore. Problem is many people are just interested in statistics, figures, theory and refuse and ignore the reality and facts. People can create false figures, theory, statistics but reality is reality. Reality and facts tell it all.

eagle SG

so... point out any fact that none of the jobs created were spilled over to Singaporeans...?

Problem is, many people are quick to generalise and point out any mistakes or wrongs before deeper analysis and thinking. There are certainly bad points in our system, but there are also good points.

I myself believe that the statistics we get is most likely true, thus having a direct correlation with reality. It is the interpretation and analysis of these figures that can be subjected to questioning. It is up to us whether we want to embark on a critical thinking to analyse whether the selective conclusions given to us by the media can be totally correct.

So what is reality to you? What have you seen that you can share with us so that we can agree with your point?

reddressman SG

What is true is one thing.

What is the TRUTH is another.

What is true is the basic minimun of all expectations that needs to be met.

What is the TRUTH is what the PEOPLE should expect.

A box of chocolate has chocolates. This statement can be true.
But what is the TRUTH do you know?
The TRUTH can be , i stress, can be, that of these chocolates some are fouled.

What is to be expected is the TRUTH and not just some trues. Even if all revealed are true, 1 serious truth can still not be revealed.

What is going on PEOPLE?
What have you done today?

caleb_chiang SG

human beings lor... then what? alien ah? Rolling Eyes

qlqq9 SG

YOu need to get to the working world to know what reality is. I share life experience, reality and facts. I believe in facts and reality more than theory and statistics. There is nothing to do with generalisation, it is reality and facts. Think it is just "dui niu dan qing" to talk to you about the working life. I have already shared and if you don't accept the fact and reality of the happening, there is nothing I can do. REality is what is happening in the real world. To me if one base on theory to analyse on the present happening (reality) it is just not completely appropriate. That is all I wanna say. You need to be working and face with problems then you will know. I hope I don't need to keep communicating with you about the reality and facts of working life, work/job employment problems/figures, for I can see that it is going to be in vain.

qlqq9 SG

This guy just can't accept the reality and facts. There is no point explaining to him. He "bu jian kuan cai bu liu lei". Didn't the leegime said that there are no destitutes in Singapore, but we see so many people picking up cans from the rubbish bins to sell, people sleeping in the void deck. So which is the truth? What the leegime said is the truth or people picking cans from rubbish bins to sell and people sleeping in the void deck is the truth? So I wonder, must one analyse on these to decide which is the truth.

oxford mushroom SG

The truth is that there are hardworking folks who rise from poverty to become millionnaires. The truth is that there are foreigners who have come penniless and work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for $600 a month before their contribution is recognized by their employers. The truth is that with equal access to educational opportunities, the son of a vegetable seller and a toilet cleaner is able to gain a doctorate from Oxford University.

And the truth is that there are losers who just sit on their butts and rant against foreigners who are more talented, more hardworking and more appreciative of the opportunities they have been given.

qlqq9 SG

The truth is there are some people who have one track mind and are quick to jump at people. The truth is there are people who are selective to accept the truth according to their belief and one track mind. The truth is someone out of no where comes back here again and blah blah blah. What you said make sense but you are too selective to accept and reject the truth and reality. I doubt your credibility.

eagle SG

I shall quote soul_rage from another thread to reiterate my point:

My main point is, figures and statistics are most likely not faked.

You also know I have only worked for a short while... Which is why I want to garner more information from you. Rolling Eyes I want to know what you have faced in reality that make you think this way mah... I just wonder how many companies have you really seen that behaves the way you have described... 2? 3? Because from what I have seen in my intern company, an American MNC, most of the workers are Singaporeans, with a number from Malaysia, some from Vietnam/Indonesia...

FireAndHell SG

Have several middle aged friends who have been retrenced and am looking for jobs.......Even NTUC did'nt want them.....they're fit and strong but sadly......cannot land a job to feed their families. Wonder who these jobs will go to?? Cool

qlqq9 SG

Take these two months for eg, I have been to 3 companies - All the heavy weight in these companies are FTs, there are quite a number of foreigners in the file and rank level. The most ridiculous one is the one which employs a FW to do a cleaner cum tea lady's job. This company employs the least locals, 3 locals among the total staff strength of 20. Pathetic! REally, these ministers earn millions and millions but just simply, conveniently, may be intentionally ignore the employment needs of the locals are not fit to be our govt. I have never come across any gahmen so mean to their own people in the country to ignore the basic need for the employment of the people.

reddressman SG

People from the Indian Ocean
are everywhere here now.

1 thing you need to take note is no matter if they do not know each other,
these people originated from there will always unite among themselves.

contrast this to people from the China Town area.

When it comes to hiring,

I have a colleague who also lamented that they will always prefer their own kind.

locals have no chance. as simple as that. Its called the hard truth. the ocean people fully aware of this as well. locals are generally not as united.

Money runs this town. self preservation and hello kitty syndrome. kia' ism.

We are F&^%K$D!

I like to sing u a sang:

HK liao !
HK liao !!
HK ALL THE WAY !!!

I am not just lamenting, I am packing and getting ready. I dont wanna be slowly steamed to death.

eagle SG

Oh, that's the difference.

You are talking about 3 companies, with one of it only with a staff strength of 20?

And I'm talking about an American MNC (I can pm you the company name upon request), with around 50+ pple in that one department I'm working in? (I know the figure because I helped organize inter department games). And in that air-con area I worked in, there are 4 departments, so a total of 200 odd employees. In addition, this is only a portion of the total staff by the company. There are still other floors and buildings (manufacturing, packaging, etc). And what I have observed is, there are a large number of Singaporeans and Malaysians, and with a larger number of Singaporeans as compared to Malaysians.

So as compared to the total staff strength of your 3 companies, my question would be, did the American MNC which I have been working at employed more staff?

qlqq9 SG

hello, I am just quoting you companies I have been to in these recent months excluding the past. I know what you are driving at. Most MNCs big or small I come across have so many foreign employees. What you mention is only the miserable minority of MNCs who employ more locals that is all. So what else you want to compare. Is there any end?

eagle SG

The thing is, the total number of staff you have saw is only a minor percentage.

In another thread I have answered, I have calculated an estimation of 1.25 million Citizen workers in the labour force, of which at least 96% is employed, assuming foreign workers have 100% employment. Does that sort of gives you an idea on how many locals are actually employed?

Again, according to statistics, total labour force is 2.7 mil (rounded up). This means that more than half of the total workers in Singapore are not citizens, which may well explain the fact you have raised.

The problem with both of us originally is, we are discussing based on what we see, which is only a tiny window of the big picture in Singapore

qlqq9 SG

YOu don't have enough experience working or even visiting companies, you are just talking figures and numbers. It is dui niu dan qing to talk to you on this. You sound very much like a typical NUS undergrad or grad.

weiqimun SG

....... I dont wanna be slowly steamed to death. [/b]

er...hope u r not a frog...

eagle SG

So when you cannot explain yourself in the face of calculations, you decide to say I have not enough experience? What difference is that from Gazelle? Do you mean to say that a view of 3 small companies is more accurate than the labour survey/statistic of the whole Singapore labour force?

Even if there are 200 employees in the company you saw, how much percentage is that with regards to the 2.7 million labour force? Doesn't this prove my point about generalisation?

I may not have enough experience working or visiting companies as an individual, but how about the combined and mutually shared experiences of all my friends who has done at least 6 months intern each? That will surely be more companies than you have worked with in total right?

Please think and analyse further before talking la. Your observations may be correct, but it can be already be explained by the figures I have raised with some deeper thoughts and analysis. As I have already pointed out, the ratio of foreign workers/PRs to Singapore Citizen workers is about 1.16 to 1

Let's explore this deeper. We will need to bear in mind that the largest employer in Singapore is the government service, of which a extreme large proportion of Singaporeans are employed, eg DSTA/DSA. There are just many sensitive issues in the different agencies that only Singaporeans can handle. One example would be the SAF, who has already 100k regulars.

In addition, there are companies/MNCs like the one I have been to who employ a higher percentage of Singaporeans.

Thus, considering the above factors, the companies you have been to will thus have to employ more non-citizens. Hence your observations.

So in conclusion, nothing is wrong with both of our observations. The only problem is that both of our observations are just an extreme small sample size of the total labour force. Therefore, we should not make any generalisations.

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