New HDB flat prices based on market prices of resale flats

maurizio13 SG

Obviously you have no understanding of company structure in groups.

You are correct in stating that if your surname is D|ck, your father, mother, brothers, sisters and cousins have no entitlement to your wife. But this is company structure we are dealing in, not personal structure. A company is a legal entity with the right to own properties and other companies. Whereas you as Mr. Dick cannot own another person.

Mr. Green

Gazelle SG

Can a Singtel staffs get free flight on SIA ?
Can you SIA get free office space from Capitaland?
Can HDB office get free power supply from Singapore Power?

Over to you dick!!

Seant7 SG

It simply a matter of transferring money from the left pocket to the right pocket. Left pocket is incurring a deficit but right pocket is making the mother of all profit. But ultimately those are still my money.

We look at the government who are doing the transaction with us and not how they transfer the money between different government departments.

For as long as we sees fail to see outside the scope of HDB account, we will never get the bigger pictures.

Gazelle SG

it is indeed a left and right pocket transaction however I would rather the money goes into state fund rather than HDB buying plasma TV, leather sofa etc

maurizio13 SG

Frankly, I don't expect you to understand all these, because you have limited knowledge about accounting, you have limited intelligence and you only support the government's view.

First of all, we are talking about company structures, not about staffs working in the company. Your question about staffs getting free flights on SIA is totally ludicrous. So are you telling me that since a person works in the Ministry of Home Affairs, he/she would be given special discount if he/she committed a crime? Company structure! Don't distort the picture, that's what P4P politicians are good at doing, which I am sure you will never be.

Does SIA have control over CapitaLand? Does SIA own more than 50% of the voting shares? Whereas, HDB is 100% owned by the government.

Same with HDB and Singapore Power, though Singapore Power is partially owned by the Government. Finally, if the government has to produce a Balance Sheet and Income & Expenditure statement, they will need to take out intra company accounts. Else the accounts would make no sense in the ultimate holding company (which is the government).

If there are two companies (Co. A & Co. B), Co. A sells $100 of goods to Co. B, then Co. B sells back the same goods back to Co. A for $1,000.

At the end of the day.

Co. A
Sales $100
Cost of Sales (say) ($50)
Profit = $50

Co. B
Sales $1,000
Cost of Sales ($100)
Profit $ 900

When all that has happened here is goods have only changed hands, but profits have sky rocketed.

This time around seems like you have started name calling early, even when we have only started the discussion. Is it a preamble that you would lose this discussion again?

Mr. Green

maurizio13 SG

The government's main account is never consolidated or disclosed. Even if consolidated, by whom is it verified by.

Thus, ordinary Singaporean citizens will never know or understand the ultimate behind these inter-departmental movement of funds.

We don't even have a strong opposition to check on the application of funds.

Gazelle SG

M13,

all the above companies are GLCs and their major shareholder is the government. If you consider HDB and government as the same, SIA, Capitaland, Singtel should all be the same isnt it?

What about Singapore Power, they are 100% government, hence should Temasek MOE, MOM offices get free power supply because they are the same?

maurizio13 SG

So who is the ultimate holding company?

The government.

So does the government produce a consolidated financial statement?

If the government does produce a consolidated financial statement, they would need to take out intra-company transactions. Because in a group context, all the subsidiaries are treated as within the group and only transactions outside of the group would count as a transaction.

So in a group context, the loans given by the government with interest expense of $1.5 billions paid by HDB to the government would need to be contra out.

It would make no sense to give a loan to yourself and charge yourself interest and show others what you made from yourself.

I could be wrong, maybe you make loan to yourself and charge yourself interest and tell your friends that you made $100 from loaning yourself some money.

Mr. Green

Gazelle SG

Do you know why people say that chinese family business usually doesnt last 3 generations?

tzr79 SG

haha........ keep on dreaming

Seant7 SG

That not the issue but what we oppose is the government is in actual fact trying to mislead people to believe in their so called "subsidy" when in actual fact they are not spending a single cent here.

The proper term to use is "discount" and not "subsidy".

Gazelle SG

it depends how you look at it. From the government point of view, they would want to extract the maximum "fair" value from the land sales to HDB. "fair" would mean what the market could afford and that will depend on the state of the economy. As long as HDB price it below resale price, that is subsidy.

Everybody would want to buy cheap and sell high, but that sort of "free lunch" or windfall is not going to happen.

maurizio13 SG

No more contentions from the savannah animals?

So HDB payment of interest charges to government is similar, to a person taking a loan from himself, paying interest to himself, so that he can show a loss in one hand while hiding the profits in another hand?

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