the PAP government

last SG · 2007-07-06T10:07:37+00:00

This is a sentence well said! Sadly, this is the point the PAP tries to drive across every election: "look at our portfolio blah blah blah"

unclebutcher SG

mm lee is not a all knowing person. HK has a system of government equal in efficiency to singapore's one. i did not say mm lee is totally responsible for singapore's progress, rather i said it was the pap govt.

will4 SG

I think Spore standard of living n freedom of speech should be compared with
these countries such as Korea n also the standard of living.

By asking the local to compare themselves with the neighbouring countries in a totally not a good benchmark. The ruling party is no doubt built up Spore
they cannot expect to use the same method to persuade voters to vote for them becasue for the past forty year of contribution. Look at the rate of migration among the local to other countries.

unclebutcher SG

Korea? which korea are you referring to?

will4 SG

South cause look at their companies well known in other countries.
HK people are known to be more creative n business minded which is

reason they migrate can set up duck rice shop in Canada or US.
Look at the Chinatown, so sucessful n they created by HK migrants.

laurence82 SG

would we necessarily become a communist nation without PAP? we dont have a parallel timeline to prove your hypothesis

and why indonesia or malaysia?

why whenever the government was pointed out wrong, we always go back to "at least we are not "

i like what the finance chief of Hong Kong said about his vision for HK as a global financial centre in the future, that they should look towards the world top centres as benchmark, like NY or London

why compare with Singapore, who is on par if not below their performance?

this means, why should we adopt a 'at least we are not so and so' kind of attitude?

why cant we go 'that nation is good, lets emulate or do better' or something

i dont understand this retrogressive attitude at all

laurence82 SG

easy

why do we need a government who could not keep costs down, especially in areas they could control

public transport is a good example, housing is another

competitive wages for workers and ministers have meant entirely two different directions, strange

sgdiehard SG

Dear unclebutcher,

Salute you for starting this thread here. If you can stand firm to discern what are one-sided arguments, what is propaganda, and what are simply expressions of dissatisfaction or dissent, you are not a minor anymore.

Singapore has come along way. Until 1980, the impact of cold war due to difference in ideologies affected and molded us in many different ways. The PAP then certainly deserved all the credits, as the party that led us to independence, from the Brits, and Malaysia. Yes, they had the support of the people, all our forefathers, who were right to elect the PAP as the government. What were the alternatives then: elected the Barisan Socialists, submited to UMNO and stayed as a state of Malaysia, or continued to stay under the Brit as a colony.

Would any of these alternatives be better than the PAP? I doubt so. The worse would be to stay under the Brits as a colony. HK Chinese never had the Brits passports; neither would Singaporeans ever become Brits citizens. The Brits would want a local government to run Singapore to ensure there were enough tax money to go back to the queen, and if LKY agrees, instead of Chris Patten, we would have a government under LKY, and the system of elitism remains, for the few who are willing to serve the masters. The running dogs of the colonial master vs. the dogs of PAP.. Today I remain a Singaporean where I were a PAP dog or not, under the Brits, if I were not a running dog, I would be nobody.

The passport of the Special Administrative Region of China, HK is still more valuable than the passport of the State of Singapore, a Colony of the UK.

Before 1980, I would say that we owe the progress of Singapore to PAP, together with all our forefathers for their sacrifices in founding and building Singapore. And in the PAP, all the old cadre, LKY, Goh Keng Swee, Toh Chin Chye, Rajaratnam, ..... deserve our respect.

..... to be continued.

sgdiehard SG

We entered the 80s, the 90s, into the millennium. The cold war is over, China has opened up, national security was not a big problem except to prepare for possible regional conflicts. The next phase of national building took place. In foreign relation we extended and enhanced our relationships with countries far and wide. Our economy were transformed to be competitive, labors are not cheap anymore, so we went high tech, we invested in the region, and riding on the growth of world and regional economic boom, our economy grew even stronger, until 1997. Everything positive, and I also welcome the incentives for more children rather than the previous penalty for more than two children policy.

But during this period, the educational system took a turn into a mess. The merging of Nantah with SU, the EM3, the normal express gifted streams, later the independent schools, .. and among these there are changes that are not part of the system, we had River Valley High School located in Ulu Pandan, and Tanglin School located at West Coast. All these confused the parents like hell. Nobody really knew coming or going. This was the result of Dr. Tony Tan, after visiting many schools in Europe and America. Still, there appears to be no end to such changes

This period would have been a perfect timing for growth and maturity in our political system. More people should come forth to participate in politics, to represent the voices of different segments of the society, the aging, and the growing up. unfortunately, with the booming economy, not many people were interested, besides, the ruling party make it very costly for any mistake made by opposition. We are even more unfortunate to have oppositions who were not disciplined enough and got sued for misappropriating governments postal services. Though we have more young faces in the parliament now, but all from the same camp. So one side get stronger and stronger with the other side weaker and weaker.

laurence82 SG

but these people have long gone

respecting these people, or respecting the current party?

we must be able to differentiate

sgdiehard SG

Our public housing went up and down, One minute we have couples queuing for years to get their HDB flats for marriage, the next minute we have in Ponggol thousands of units unoccupied. Upgrading of all flats is good, but it has become political because the ruling party used that as incentive for voters in election. This is when people are beginning to feel that what belong to Singapore belong to PAP, a step over the line.

I understand there is a problem with labor shortage, and the impact of globalization. I can accept more foreigners coming here to do what we cannot do. But when foreign companies in Singapore are replacing able Singaporeans with foreigners; when PR are enjoying the same benefits as Singaporeans, all with the blessing from the government, solely on lower cost basis, I begin to wonder if our government values us as citizens, or money comes first. Is the nation built for us, or are citizens expandable in building the nation?

When more and more people are retrenched at earlier age, with problem even finding money to live to 55, the government is extending the CPF withdrawal age to 62, you cant help but wonder if the government is concerned with the plight of those retrenched or simply afraid that they had to pay out CPF money earlier. After calling for Singaporean to be competitive in view of competition from rising China and India, the government announced their salary increment, and GST increase, I now believe what the Chinese says guan zi liang ge kou (Government officer has two mouth).

As aging problem become more imminent, with those born in the 50s, 60s, these old supporters of PAP in the building of Singapore entering their twilight years, the realization that Singaporean life expectancy is now increased to 79, and costs of medical care continue to go up, the government considers their job done after giving us Medisave and MediShield. It is not their responsibility anymore. This is when I question if there is any social morality in those involved in the management of medical services here.

Dont get me wrong, I am not - anti PAP. The city of Singapore makes me proud, with garden and cleanliness. I find MRT most convenient as in any world-class modern city, but the taxi service here still sux to the bottom. I am proud as a Singaporean, our SAF is strong, our passports allow me to pass to many countries without visa, Singapore name is known everywhere, we are multi racial, multi religious. But, there are things that Singaporeans need to improve, to change, in order to build on the foundations our forefather laid.

As a young man, be positive, to what is good and kind, for the people in Singapore; be alert, to gossip and policies that are against the interest of the people; be active, dont waste too much time on computer games; be responsible, dont just talk and scold; learn the right values in life, money is not everything; have the right perspective, Singapore is ruled by PAP but does not belong to PAP; take a longer perspective, many things take time to achieve, time is on your side; most importantly, be courageous, you are still young, just dont make big mistakes that have lasting consequences.

When you are out, observe the life of those around you, understand them. Read the newspapers and discuss with your parents how some policies affect them and your parents. Write to the press, improve the awareness of fellow Singaporean about our society, especially events that not normally reported. But most importantly, study hard, no guarantee what are the great things you can do for Singapore, but if you fail often in your exam, you can't even write to complain in this forums.

Have a good day and God bless your future.

P/S Migrating is not a solution to life and future of Singapore.

ShutterBug SG

living in the past, will not solve or change today's form or governance...

ShutterBug SG

Here's a thoughtful site, with lots of articles from thoughtful people...

>> http://www.thinkcentre.org/index.cfm

laurence82 SG

thats true

and we also have to differentiate a few issues

that giving respect to the Old Guards (because some people here keep quoting them) is different from giving respect to the current team

and that appreciating them should never take over our desire for improvement and progress in the society

in fact, i do question the purpose of this thread, that since people make such distinctions, why are we still hanging on to the past, or comparing ourselves to worse nations to make ourselves feel better?

zix1 SG

Originally posted by unclebutcher:

my intention for this thread is to ask fellow forumnites to think about what the PAP has done for us in the past. i am not saying that they will always be an infallible party. i'm just saying that this is the party that has brought Singapore thus far; at least accord them [b]some respect.[/b][/b]

It is been said that respect is earned not deserved.

leilan84 SG

Rolling Eyes
i only know that, everything is increasing ever since HL take charge.
yet i didn't see any service improvement.

eagle SG

service performance of service sector is not related to PAP, unless u r talking about service of the government sector... which has not been improving since way before HL took charge

leilan84 SG

is there any difference between the classes in sg?
well.. the gov seems to value the Prs more
to them, sillyporean when they turn old is nothing but just a burden!

walesa SG

Going by your line of reasoning, is there anything to suggest Singapore would not have attained the Swedish, Finnish or Swiss living standards if the fascists had not been in power?

robertteh SG

When there was a good opportunity for our own educated and enthusiastic entrepreneurs and the people to build a first world economy during the 1970s, and 1980s, because of suppressive policies aimed to ensuring superficial success of government and its own few elites, many true talents who could create jobs for citizens have by then already left the country.

Singapore missed a chance to restructure itself to another Finland, Switzerland because of wrong policies in the past that aimed at only taxing and building up leaders' own self-centred superficial success story of a few.

zix1 SG

Service from the govt sector has not been improving, some have become worst, for eg, service from the govt hospital. What else is improving since lhl took over, really I think of nothing, except his pay and everything that concerns $$$ is increasing, GST, utility bill, hospital fees/bills, ministers pay, and others you can add on the list. Base on these, cant blame people if we think that he lhl is in as PM just to make lots of $$$ and this probably takes priority over serving the people of Singapore.

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