All out to defame our governement

last SG · 2007-06-07T10:34:23+00:00

Not in biomed business, but believe such hubs exist in many places besides Australia and Singapore. not interested in disputing what the australians have est...

Jontst78 SG

Do you understand poverty or how its measured?

Taken from Singapore Department of Statistics (which is run by PAP) on
COUNTRY PAPER ON POVERTY MEASUREMENT

Relative Poverty
In many developed countries, the low- or lower-income groups are defined in relation to other (higher) income groups according to the prevailing standards of living in the society. This approach focuses on the gap between the haves and the have-nots or income distribution and inequality.

www.singstat.gov.sg/papers/op/op-s5.pdf

bigmouthjoe SG

I should now bring into discussion the topic of the infamous T.T Durai.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Kidney_Foundation_Singapore_scandal

In August 1997 and December 1998, NKF volunteer Archie Ong and aero-modelling instructor Piragasam Singaravelu respectively were hauled to court separately for defamation when both said that T.T. Durai had been flying first class.

The former mentioned in April 1997 that the NKF "squandered monies" in a casual conversation with former chairman of NKF's finance committee Alwyn Lim, while the latter has claimed that he had personally seen Mr Durai in Singapore Airlines' first-class cabin. Both paid an undisclosed amount of damages to the NKF, and apologised.

...

In 1999, NKF tracked down and again took legal action against Tan Kiat Noi, who allegedly circulated an e-mail from her company e-mail on 5 April, claiming that "the NKF did not help the poor and needy, paid its staff unrealistically high bonuses" and discouraged members of the public from donating. She later published a public apology on local broadsheets The Straits Times and Lianhe Zaobao, and paid a total of S$50,000 in damages. 48 additional workers who forwarded the same e-mail were also sued by the organisation, but the suit was later dropped in consideration that they would face possible financial hardships.

They were successfully sued for defamation, but it was unfair for them due to the lack of transparency regarding NKF. The onus it seems, was on the accused to prove that they are innocent, INSTEAD of the prosecution to prove that the accused is guilty of libel.

The same can be said of most libel cases involving certain bodies in Singapore.

countdracula SG

10 years ago becoming a millionaire was a major achievement...now earning that in a year is too much of a sacrifice, there's a special group of 'servants' who are whining about the low wages, must be at least $2mil...

there's a certain disquiet among the populace....that's how the french revolution boiled over....

kilua SG

I am sure you have studied mean median mode in "O" levels. A rise in average could mean the top 10% wage are rising rising and pulling up the average while the general populations wage stays stagnant. Could please produce data for median please, Cool

Gazelle SG

Before anyone accuse the government of doing something I think it is important that he or she is able to support his claim by facts and proof instead of creating all that cock and bull stories, or base on historical events or rumour.

e.g. To support his claim about Sentosa IR, he has actually said that PM Badawi actually visited Singapore 2 months before or 2 months after the Sentosa IR annoucement (oct 2006) to pressure and thanks Singapore government respectively. Did PM Badawi flew into Singapore in a stealth plane and flew off without anybody knowing accept him?

Rock^Star SG

Let me quote you an example of my friend:

Mr A's profile:

University graduate
IT professional
Worked for 4 years
Take home salary: $2,300/mth

Monthly expenses:

Parents - $800
Food - $400
Transport - $250
Insurance - $300
Leisure (includes gf) - $500
Savings - $50

How is he going to start his own family anytime soon?

What if his parents fall sick and are admitted into hospital?

Now contrast that with:

- raising the GST to "help the poor" and the government raking in millions a year
- means testing in hospitals
- low COEs, raising the supply of cars on the roads and more negative equity for the individual
- high HDB prices which ensure that you pay till retirement
- encouragement of Singaporeans to have more babies
- loose usage of CPF which means that the average Singaporean may have little in his/her CPF when retirement beckons

We are not asking for a change in govt but only for the govt to rule with a good degree of self-respectability.

We are not asking for opposition to seize power but for them to participate in parliament in larger numbers so as to keep a check on the govt.

We are not asking for a crutch but for the govt to make life as smooth as possible simply because not everyone can make it rich.

bigmouthjoe SG

Those statistics are based on Singapore $ Per Employee.

Meaning that if our dear ministers who are recieving million dollar pay raise is going to contribute significantly to the projected figure.

The statistics should be shown in a more transparent manner. Namely a breakdown in terms of the top 20%, 60% and lastly the bottom most 20%.

Jontst78 SG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile

Household income distribution by Signapore Dept of Statistics.

At the 60% mark, its about 4k per household. Think most of us agree that almost all households in that range have more than one breadwinner.

bigmouthjoe SG

You can and should refute his points based on what he is saying, however similarly you cannot refute his points because you have no prove that it did not happen. I am not aware of this discussion regarding the IR so I cannot comment further on this issue.

Gazelle SG

You dont question someone with another question because that only shows that you are question that someone just for the sake of questioning.

"Could" is a speculative word that has no meaning unless you could provide facts to support it.

robertteh SG

Metaphorical wrote:
Kan ni nia I thought only taiwan want learn from we all, now Russia also want learn from sg!

yesterday Lky in moscow time, reporters also ask how russia can learn from we all sg. Lky give them some advise how improve & how stop corruption.

Kan ni nia nowday be sg citizens also proud & shiok, go anywhere also got other country people respect we all!

Read "The Little Red Dot" and "20 Major Government Policy Errors".

As posted in the above-stated two threads, there are too many problems being caused by past autocratic system of running the country unreported by our government controlled media.

If Taiwan and Russia wanted to jack up their costs of living with double-taxations and fullest cost recovering through GLCs and HDB practising all kinds of profiteering schemes which do not even show up in Parliament Annual Budgets, against their own citizens, until their standard of living has dropped back to the 3rd world and the rich people and elites are happily being helped by the government to extract benefits from such a system, then it is true in what you said, Singapore way is the best way to do it.

Rock^Star SG

How true.

Has Gazelle noticed that statistics on percentage of population per income group is ostensibly missing from the MOM website?

If MOM can use CPF contributions to calculate the mean income of Singaporeans, why not the classification of the population by income levels?

Or is MOM afraid to show that it is the rich getting richer and the poor remaining poor?

Rock^Star SG

It's a valid question and is vital to whether you can sustain your argument a not.

Just answer his question for goodness sake.

spinsugar SG

Originally posted by Gazelle:

Why isit that those who speakers against the those who create false information about our government are being labelled as pro-PAP? It doesnt make sense for you to start labelling people in this forum since.

1) it will not encourage discussion
2) You know nuts about each individual
3) You are not the TS

Before we discuss this further, I think it will be important to have a common understanding of what is the definition of defamation.

Originally posted by Gazelle:

If some di.cks can call Singapore silllypore and sinkapore, what is wrong to call these Singapore born dic.ks head white pri.ck sucker living in pussieland?

Loser? Nah...only loser will start a thread solely to start a flame war.
Want to know who?

Clue : Someone with big mouth and small joe.

You're a walking contradiction... you could do well to heed your own advice, in fact you just replied to your own self up there! Rolling Eyes

Be logical. If you truly feel strongly against any particular argument here, why don't you offer your own counter explanation instead of trying to explain away how and why the other person is stupid, or trying to divert the conversation?

Whatever u're doing, it's not working. Please evolve.

bigmouthjoe SG

Yes unfortunately informations have been skewered to put the government in a good light, as will be the case with most government press releases.

It only serves to earn the distrust of the general population, especially those that knows that vital information is missing and deliberately hidden.

Jontst78 SG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile

The statistics are in the link, and done by the PAP government.

The lower 20% suffer constants drops, while highest 10% get increases. Facts endorsed by the Singapore Dept of Statistics...

spinsugar SG

What I don't like is the way only one view ('good') is allowed to get good press / coverage, while the "alternate" views ('bad') are downplayed/under-represented. Examples were aplenty in the last GE. Things are never so black & white, and should never be.

Before people start mumbling and nodding away when they get the message that opposition is bad, remember that LKY would never step up if it were not for a strong opposition, fair elections and freedom of speech.

bigmouthjoe SG

I may not be well versed along the lines of economics, but can I say that the rate of inflation is higher than the increase in wages?

Rock^Star SG

Gazelle, many of us here have given you our reasoning and statistics.

Come on, prove ndmmxiaomayi wrong. Answer kilua's question too. Answering the question is vital to you sustaining your argument.

Jontst78 SG

Not only that. The median income is estimated to be at around the 70-80% mark.
The poor earning less, the rich earning more over time.

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