All out to defame our governement

last SG · 2007-06-07T10:34:23+00:00

Not in biomed business, but believe such hubs exist in many places besides Australia and Singapore. not interested in disputing what the australians have est...

fymk SG

I am not getting personal Smile . Why are you so sensitive? Like the way you twist my words.

I just seem to recall that you liked to talk about your wife's audi so I wondered if you factor that into a "simple" life after all one must practice what one preaches.

I didn't say that just because I chose a different life meant that it is a coolest life. Read my definition of sillyporeans (Singaporeans who vote PAP in because of upgrading carrot). Like I said to soul rage - I empathise with those who feel stuck in Singapore.

If people want to stay in Singapore because they are millionaires there, it is fine by me - it is their millions and millions talk loud in Singapore. They are clever by staying in Singapore where business is easy to run and you can hire and fire workers without a care for unions coming down on your throat. Those people probably make up about 1-2% of the population.

I am not comparing Singapore to Australia - I am comparing possible lifestyles such as "a simple life" in Singapore - and the rest are mere illustrations - please note that I also quoted China as well.

Gazelle SG

You mean singaporeans who needed a lift upgrade and vote for PAP are consider sillyporeans? FYI, those who needed the upgrade the most are old and disable and i think it is wrong to call them silly just because you are young and mobile.

fymk SG

Love the way you play the moral game. Here is my retort.

The government has a moral responsibility to make facilities accessible to all in public housing .

According to what you said above , won't it be immoral to have a government who would threaten the accessibility of facilities or restrict the accessibility of all public areas , facilities and housing to the elderly and disabled just because they refuse to vote for a particular party? What gives a government the bloody right to such a ghastly thing as you implied in your above statement ?

Upgrading necessary facilities and amenities in public areas for all citizens to use , be it young/old and disabled, to use is a moral obligation.

The money used is taxpayer's money. The young old and disabled contribute someway to this money , be it income tax or buying things ( GST tax). Just because one area does not vote for the government doesn't give the government the right to deprive that populance of its right to accessible facilities.

The upgrading carrot I was thinking of - is the one where they add extra storage rooms and repaint or remodel the facade to increase face value, and I never thought that it would be linked to necessary upgrades as you have implied.

The necessary items should not and in fact NEVER be dangled in front of needy citizens. Everyone pay taxes even those in opposition areas - everyone has a right to have accessible essential facilities.

Gazelle SG

Originally posted by fymk:

Love the way you play the moral game. Here is my retort.

The government has a moral responsibility to make facilities accessible to all in public housing .

[b] According to what you said above , would it be immoral to have a government who would threaten the accessibility of facilities or restrict the accessibility of all public areas , facilities and housing to the elderly and disabled just because they refuse to vote for a particular party?

Upgrading necessary facilities and amenities in public areas for all citizens to use , be it young/old and disabled, to use is a moral obligation.

The money used is taxpayer's money. The young old and disabled contribute someway to this money , be it income tax or buying things ( GST tax). Just because one area does not vote for the government doesn't give the government the right to deprive that populance of its right to accessible facilities.

The upgrading carrot I was thinking of - is the one where they add extra storage rooms and repaint or remodel the facade to increase face value, and I never thought that it would be linked to necessary upgrades as you have implied.

The necessary items should not and in fact NEVER be dangled in front of needy citizens. Everyone pay taxes even those in opposition areas - everyone has a right to have accessible essential facilities. [/b]

Are you saying that the politicians in Australia and American doesnt use carrot to win votes? And Singapore government is the only government in this world that does that?

fymk SG

Wait. Didn't you say you want to talk about Singapore only and not to compare?

Now let's refocus on what you seem to be avoiding the issue that it is immoral for a government , in fact any government , to deprive their tax paying citizens the right to access essential facilities. I never knew until today from you that the carrot actually includes essential facilities .

Well if You want to talk Australian and American:
Politicians in Australia and America have opposition parties . If they ignore one community - they get a backlash through the election- so they give promises out. If they do not fulfil their promises , the community has a long memory and will vote them out in favor of the opposition. So the onus is on them to promise everything to every single electorate and carry out what they said to do - and that does not threaten the electorate.

To tell an electorate that you are not giving them the lifts they need for their elderly people and disabled because they did not vote for your party is akin to threatening their daily lives with inconvenience. There is a HUGE difference between promising something (promising carrot) and threatening something (threatening carrot). From what you had implied , it seems only Singapore uses the threatening carrot while the rest push the promising carrot.

maurizio13 SG

If both countries have the same environment and social values. I would still choose Australia in terms of government. I wonder how many would do so.

There are those who want to leave Singapore, but are not able to do so because they are not able to get PR or citizenship in another country.

soul_rage SG

why don't you cut the crap and answer your ridiculous statement that PAP = govt?

I quote this again, coward

Govt is the body that has the power to make and the authority to enforce rules, and within this body, are 2 members from the opposition parties

So you say PAP = Govt? By virtue of your statement above, you are implying that the 2 members from the opposition party are also PAP members?

Now is that true?

I was telling you that PAP CANNOT use govt's fund for their own selfish means, but you insist on reading it the other way, so be it.

soul_rage SG

or cowards whom hide behind a nickname on sgforums and whine that all of us are whiners.

A coward who cannot face up to the reality that he sucks being a human.

Even basic moral values are lacking. I think he lacks spiritual fulfillment, that's why he is so shallow in his thinking.

soul_rage SG

can you stop comparing apples to oranges?

The politicians in US use their own party funds to fight campaigns.

what is our PAP using?

Govt's funds.

But then again, you can't even distinguish btw PAP and Govt, so I guess you cannot even comprehend a single bit what the difference is.

Actually, based on your statement above, you have already mixed up govt and political parties. You are comparing politicians to Singapore govt. What a mix-up. Now it seems you are implying the following:
USA govt = Republican party

Can you get your definitions right before coming here and making a fool of yourself?

soul_rage SG

Originally posted by fymk:

Wait. Didn't you say you want to talk about Singapore only and not to compare?

Now let's refocus on what you seem to be avoiding the issue that it is immoral for a government , in fact any government , to deprive their tax paying citizens the right to access essential facilities. I never knew [b] until today from you that the carrot actually includes essential facilities

[/b]

I highlighted this to him previously already.
HDB upgrade is taxpayers' money, and cannot be used rightfully as a carrot since it implies that Hougang and Potong Pasir residents should pay less tax.

But he cannot understand (or refuse to understand).

fymk SG

He basically stabbed himself in the foot and probably committed himself to defamation of PAP in regards to what he had said .

Taxpayer's monies are not to be used for dangling essential items and should never be used that way.

Upgrade carrot which I always thought was more of an aethestic thing like repainting and extra rooms NOT essential items such as lifts but Gazelle seems keen to include lifts for the old and disabled into the carrot and it voids his whole statement about a good government.

soul_rage SG

Originally posted by fymk:

He basically stabbed himself in the foot and probably committed himself to defamation of PAP in regards to what he had said .

Taxpayer's monies are not to be used for dangling essential items and should never be used that way.

Upgrade carrot which I always thought [b] was more of an aethestic thing like repainting and extra rooms NOT essential items such as lifts but Gazelle seems keen to include lifts for the old and disabled into the carrot and it voids his whole statement about a good government.

[/b]

If LKY were to be in this thread, he would personally eradicate the confused Gazelle, because to LKY...

Gazelle is more a LIABILITY than an asset, becoz he causes more damage to the PAP in his attempts to defend them.

"There is no difference between a stupid person and a devious person, the only difference is that the stupid person causes damage unknowingly, while the devious person causes damage knowingly."

maurizio13 SG

Laughing

Think like all government establishment, he only works 5 day week. So today, won't get to see him around.

fymk SG

Actually I thought 5.5 week still? or maybe that is reserved for my relative who seems to be handling more and more work ...

Gazelle does not work for the government . Trust me - his type of style will get him sacked within a week.

will4 SG

What u mean different?

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

No, 5day week.

The resident fungus/parasite doesn't come on weekends either.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

I wonder if he lives in Hougang or Potong Pasir to say such big things, because I live in Hougang and experience first hand the effects of all this carrot play funded by our own taxes, no less.

Right across the road from my house is the area boundary, and one can see the tons of shelters and other upgrading projects they have put up while the chaps in our area (just across the road) cannot even walk to the nearest bus stop during the rain without shelter.

And of course we are told that this was because we didn't vote for them... okay, a very "endearing" reason. And I wonder why they are puzzled that they can't seem to win Hougang or Potong Pasir over every elections. Asking people to pay for their own carrots is basically a slap in the face, both to those in those areas and those outside of it.

At the end of the day, all Singaporeans are actually chipping in to pay for these "carrots". We have no choice about it and what they are saying to us is that if we don't bite, then well, too bad then.

We are duty bound by law to be taxed for your own carrot? Is there not something seriously wrong about that?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

With that kind of attitude, it is no surprise that Hougang and Potong Pasir remain in opposition hands and even had their margins increased in the last elections. Basically this whole stick and carrot thing is a slap in the face for the taxpayer, and this strategy is already wearing thin on the credibility of its users.

I am surprised that Gazelle has chosen to defend it, for frankly of all the political moves the ruling party has made, the stick and carrot method of dealing with opposition wards has been one of their less sound ones, as proven by it's repeated failure to yield results, not to mention is is morally questionable to begin with in the first place.

Indeed, all you need to do is to go to Hougang and look at the difference between the ward boundaries to understand the true effect it is having on the people in here. And these people are not being deprived because of the opposition's incompetence.

soul_rage SG

For a person (Gazelle) who can blatantly tell you:

Govt = PAP (even though Govt includes some opposition politicians)

He cannot understand what the fuss is all about.

Becoz to him, USA govt is also EQUAL to Republican political party.

He doesn't understand the difference between party funds and govt funds, and yet insists on making a fool of himself

snow leopard SG

sure, mean time keep up the good work

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