Income distribution?

last SG · 2007-04-26T12:07:47+00:00

I think many are already chi hen duo ku, what with the rising GST, high prices of PUBLIC housing, increasing transport costs etc.

CM06 SG

deleted. Not good enough to say anything.

AndrewPKYap SG

I met so many Singaporean businessmen overseas and they all tell me:

"The minute I make enough money, I am out of Singapore because the government is pro-big business and it seems *out to kill us small businesses* with *the high costs of doing business* and letting the *GLC using public money* to compete with us."

Gazelle SG

That is a very old thinking of the 90s when big conglomerate and GLCs were getting involved in alot of non-core businesses.

But today competitive world, most these big companies are actually divesting their non core business and assets.

Contrary to what you are saying, the Singapore government has initiated alot of program through Spring and IE Singapore to bring SME global. I have personally deal with the IE Singapore about overseas venture, and they have a program to subsidize the start-up cost such as overseas sales office the first year, which can cost to a few hundred thousands.

I think the businessmen you met have to be more proactive and resourceful in seeking help from the government instead wait for help to come to them.

AndrewPKYap SG

You know what wayang wayang is? As long as you do not want to solve the high costs of doing business because of sheer greed see:

Property Prices Rise at our expense

it is all simply wayang wayang...

Gazelle SG

a) Property speculation only started last year and it is concentrated in prime and downdown area close to the IR, not island wide.

b) There are many Singaporeans who have made huge "paper" losses in their property since the crash in that late 90s and early 2000. As such dont you think that a boom is property prices will give these people a life line?

c) The construction industry has been experience nagative growth for so many years, even when the economy is recovering. Hence dont you think that the boom in property market today will give a life line to fellow singaporeans working in the construction industry?

d) Inflation will exisit regardless if the property market in singapore is booming or not. Unless you are going to get yourself involve in buying prime property market or renting private apartments, if not I dont think this is going create addition cost burden to Singaporeans already living in HDB flat

e) Property price increase will benefit all existing home owners because they will have positive asset instead of negative ones. If they need the cash ugently, they can always cash in on their existing home by downgrading to smaller units.

f) The reason for the property boom is because Singapore property market has been lagging behind other major cities such as HK, Sydney London, and with Singapore IR, there willl be a surge in demand for properties. The effort by the government to turn singapore into a more vibrant city and the new income tax law have also attracted many foreigners to this country.

Is this bad news for Singapore? I dont think so.

g) A sudden crash is unlikely to hit singapore property market because majority of the buyers are people with high net worth and the boom is concentrated in the prime district or areas close to the IR, not island wide. If you are not in the market speculating, why should you worry about it. Furthermore recession is a cycle, no country in this world will be able to avoid it, you just have to be prepared and face it like a man.

soul_rage SG

Discontent will always exists, you are correct, but the level of discontent depends on the income gap. The wider the gap, the bigger the discontent, and there will come a threshold where the level of discontent is so high, that someone will be willing to do something about it, and you better hope that, that someone is not a revolutionary whom then will lead the poor to take down the rich.

You can also tell me that's not possible, that PAP will ensure no one can revolt, but its PRECISELY becoz of that fear of the possibility of it happening, that they are controlling it so tightly now. Reminds me of V for Vendetta

I can also assure you that come GST rise, I Believe the $2 will become $2.50 soon.

oxford mushroom SG

People talk about the pay gap within the country, but are completely oblivious to the income gap globally. Get real! In a globalised economy, you are competing with your counterparts all over the world. Those with specialized skills that are in demand will be paid better wages whilst those whose skills can be obtained from poorer economies will see their salaries slashed.

The pay gap will only widen with globalisation...that is true in London, it is true in New York and no reason why it should not be true in Singapore. If you want higher salaries, make sure your skills are in demand and that there are few people who possess that skill.

soul_rage SG

Does that mean we should be resigned to that fate, and not do something about it?

You are looking at things from a "self" angle, thus you believe (or you don't want to do anything about it) that things that are happening globally, we cannot change anything.

You are talking like that probably coz you are not the one suffering. There ARE people whom are caught in an unfortunate position, where they cannot keep up to the world.

Based on what you say, you don't care, and they can die for all you care. But what difference does that make you and an animal then?

ky13 SG

Dude, when was the last time you checked the property market in Singapore?
Last time I checked, which was like yesterday, the property price in Singapore is now on the rise regardless of the area.

Go and talk to any real-estate agents in Singapore if you don't believe me.

Coquitlam SG

hi soulrage & walesa

looks like this gazelle is spouting nonsense again...who is this african animal anyway

Gazelle SG

I think you have missed the point here. what we are talking is about property market booming not rising.

Gazelle SG

What the government can do is to prevent the poor from getting poorer and that is why the government has been encouraging and subsidizing Singaporeans to upgrade their skills inorder to move up the value chain.

I am not sure if there is any policy in this world that can actually prevent the rich from getting richer. Do you know of any that I dont know?

Instead of blaming our government, you should take some time to understand the effect of globalization, the supply from cheap labours in developing countries and effect of technology.

And what does GST has to do with the question I was asking you?

Gazelle SG

I dont think someone living in Australia has got anything to do with this discussion. Would appreciate if you could start a thread to look into the income distribution between australians

soul_rage SG

I am not answering your question on the cost of living in Japan, etc, coz I firmly believe your behavior is like the govt, always taking selective countries that show them in the best light, and then telling everyone how good we are.

Again I throw the statistics of us being only the 34th best standard of living country in the entire world. I note you have not answered anyone on this as well. With our cost of living, you would have thought that we could have done better.

And no, don't put words in my mouth, I did not say we should prevent rich from getting richer. And please, stop all the crap, that you know a lot of things. Globalization, I know, supply of cheap labour I know. As I said before, I am not far from what you earn, and so its wise not to assume I know nothing about globalisation

Let me ask you, you think Indians from India are cheaper than Singaporeans? Answer this first, then we talk.

Again, I have already mentioned, the govt can do more to help the poor, the rich we do not control, but its the govt's RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that the poor don't get left behind.

Gazelle SG

a) I am sorry, I dont compare singapore to a country, I compare Singapore to cities. Am I being selective? I dont think so, I am just trying to avoid comparing an apple to an orange.

b) Does income gap = standard of living? or are you trying to divert this discussion to something that is irrelevant?

c) You may claim you know about globalization, but I am not sure if you really understand globalization and its impact it is causing to lower skills workers, especially those in develop countries. And please it is not just about FT it is more than that.

d) So what do you think the government should do to ensure that the poor dont get left behind?

soul_rage SG

a) You are comparing to cities that are more expensive than Singapore. Isn't that selective?

b) Income gap does have impact on std of living. If the majority of your people are on the lower end of the income scale, and the cost of living is high, won't that cause to some extent a drop in std of living? And if many people are on the lower end, and only a few are ultra rich (even up to the 95 percentile, for eg, people are still earning miserable salary), then won't it cause a decline in the std of living?

c) Same lah, you look at yourself, and tell me if you think you know about globalization. A truly globalized person, someone who understands all the issues, and not just thinking he is the best in the world, will not openly insult others, and put other people down in this forum. Your behavior is very unbecoming of a 'globalized' person.

True enough, globalization doesn't just affect talents, but just tell me, you think Indians from India are cheaper than our local talent? Coz this is what our govt claims.

d) I have given my idea in another thread. Pls go and read if you are truly concerned with Singapore. Its in the consolidated thread. Thanks

Gazelle SG

a) I am just comparing a global city like Singapore to other global cities in Asia. Is that being selective? Should I include other global cities in Europe? Or do you think it is fairer to compare cost of living in Singapore to cities in developing countries?

b) Are you describing Singapore or talking about country like Myanmar? Do you know that Singapore is a devloped country? If yes, why make such irrelevant comparison about if this and if that? Plus why is it that widening income gap has got to do with majority poor minority rich. Cant it be minority poor and rich and majority middle class?

c) I think you would have to tell me, which indian you are talking about, because one of the riches man in the world Lakshmi Mittal is an indian. Plus, what Singapore talent are you talking about? Those who are making big bucks in financial institution or cobbler at Chinatown?

hisoka SG

do you propose kill them? or you have other means?

soul_rage SG

a) Are we a developed or developing country? I thought LKY said we were a developing country and is now applying for 1st world status. And why is it not correct to make comparison across different spectrums. You think that all cities in developing countries will be poorer than Singapore, or std of living lower than Singapore? How about Shanghai, isn't the std of living also good over there? And you can get some streetside snacks for a low low price.

b) Hello, you are a person with a 'globalized' view, don't tell me you don't understand the 80/20 rule, then the middle class is also in the 80%?

c) sigh... now I know why you are such a sad person, when I read this, you don't seem to understand that FT is a term for anyone coming here to work on a highly-educated job, and that there are Singaporeans in Singapore that can perform this sort of jobs as well. It is pretty sad that you seemed to view only the financial institutions as the talents, and all other professions as rubbish.

Gazelle SG

a) If you want to compare that way than why should singaporeans complain the widening income gap since their salary so much more than their counter part in china? plus, do you think that the cost of living in shanghai is actually lower than singapore, especially if you factor in the salary? And does shanghai or china have the same widening income gap problem? NO?

b) Are we talking about income distribution or wealth distribution here? Would appreciate if you could teach me how you apply 80/20 to analyze income distribution of a country.

c) "Stop focusing on me and get back to the topic of discussion",

Contrary to what you are saying, you dont need to be highly educated to be a talent. For example, a singer, a musician, a dancer, an artist, a photographer, and a cook in the kitchen. Sorry to say this but I suspect that you dont really understand what you are saying. Is that the reason why you are twisting my word? Didnt I say that a cobbler is a talent?

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