My company is full of F.T! Common jobs also need F.T???

last SG · 2007-05-21T00:31:17+00:00

Shutterbug, You are quite right about the need to pass laws to correct their own policy errors. The ministers were the ones in the 1980s who started the di...

ditzy SG

Me too me too, where I work the only singaporeans excluding me are the admin officer and the safety officer who comes in like only twice a week. Laughing

rane SG

Yeah, so look what has globalization done to the ordinary employees!! It is such a big and nice word which benefits the companies and the government of the countries. It is definitely beneficial and profitable at our expense. We in turn gotta be in competition with the people from other countries like China, India and so on. Sigh!!

The only thing our dear gahmen said is to ask us to upgrade. So what if we upgrade, they still give the jobs to the foreigners. Government is also to be blamed as in the case of Singapore where gahmen refuse to protect the rice bowls of their very own locals who were born and bred in Singapore. Shame on them!!

TooFree SG

It depends on the type of industry you are referring to, unless you specifically referring to certain industry. In most technological-driven industry, acquiring cheaper labour cost benefits the company in the long run. The trade-off is only the routinise task faced by the production workers and may have adverse impact on their performance in the long run.

Safety matters and quality of workers cannot be lump together if the company has a good safety culture in place and abide by law and regulation in practice.

Last but not the least have it occured to you that if the most qualified workers in a developed society are willingly to do the job for a minimum sum then there is no need for company to relocate their manufacturing plant to China or India.

Neutral

the_fallen SG

True, but try looking from their point of view too.
They at times have communication barrier with us Singaporeans too, thus they have to work double hard to catch up with us.

If they are living in Singapore while they are working, how much can they save anyway? Don't they have to pay their rental too?
Don't they need to buy meals everyday to eat?
How much can they send back after cutting away the expenses?
For them (for what I know) they (example China friends) come Singapore study, and work part time, they can save money no doubt, but once a year they go back, it cost a bomb, and thus their savings for the past 1 yr, gone in just a trip usually between CNY.

Over doing it, perhaps, that's the way things are, and I'm supporting it.
I rather they come in, or we will suffer even more.
If they don't come in, our Taxes will SKY ROCKET till I don't even want to imagine.

Whatever tax the govt collected, partially goes to giving the elders as part of their benefits. More discounts here and there etc..

Do you want to pay more tax?
If you don't want, than learn to accept the FT.

Cost of living is high no doubt, this is the price that we have to pay for being in a 1st World Country where it's save to walk around without having to worry about sexual harassment when you walk in the streets. (Try walking in western countries - feedback from my female friends who flew there)

You don't need to worry about snatch thief also.
Unless it's during Holiday celebration in crowded area than different thing.

There's no perfect country, we have to learn to give and take.

THis is what will happen to us when we don't act now!
They are the typical example of Sit and Wait for Doomsday.
They refuse to change, to upgrade, and learn new things to earn a living, instead they accept the fact that Singapore is too progressing too fast, they can't catch up.

But hey, if we were to think back, how many times has govt hinted and gave us promotions and post advertisments to encourage us to upgrade?

Did we heed their advice?
Majority of us didn't, thus who can we blame?

If govt encourage freeloaders than Singapore will go bankrupt in no time.

Health, thousands of times, govt encourage us to lead a healthy life style, but how many of us really heed their advice?
In fact it should be we taking charge of our own health, govt don't even need to care nor help us, nor are they even obliged to help us in any way, since it's none of their business in the first place.

If we derserve to be help, than look around our surroundings, how many people are smoking despite govt keep increasing the cost of it?

How many really make it an effort to go exercise and keep a healthy life-style.
Don't give me the excuse of hectic work-life.
It's just a matter of we want to, or we must exercise.

It's just a mindset, there's always 2 sides to looking at every issue, just that I choose to look at the positive side.

As I myself see no gain in looking at the negative side, we don't earn anything, neither will our problems go away, thus when we look positive at least our life can be better.

what's LPPL?

soulwinner SG

what is there to complain???

rane SG

what no need to worry about sexual harassment? you living in your own world is it? sexual harassment, hey look here, I am harassed every now and then here in Singapore, so what are you talking?

Please go and get your facts right before coming here to discuss. Mr. Green

rane SG

From: the_fallen
Member

Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 803

True, but try looking from their point of view too.
They at times have communication barrier with us Singaporeans too, thus they have to work double hard to catch up with us.

If they are living in Singapore while they are working, how much can they save anyway? Don't they have to pay their rental too?
Don't they need to buy meals everyday to eat?
How much can they send back after cutting away the expenses?
For them (for what I know) they (example China friends) come Singapore study, and work part time, they can save money no doubt, but once a year they go back, it cost a bomb, and thus their savings for the past 1 yr, gone in just a trip usually between CNY.

Over doing it, perhaps, that's the way things are, and I'm supporting it.
I rather they come in, or we will suffer even more.
If they don't come in, our Taxes will SKY ROCKET till I don't even want to imagine.

Whatever tax the govt collected, partially goes to giving the elders as part of their benefits. More discounts here and there etc..

Do you want to pay more tax?
If you don't want, than learn to accept the FT.

Cost of living is high no doubt, this is the price that we have to pay for being in a 1st World Country where it's save to walk around without having to worry about sexual harassment when you walk in the streets. (Try walking in western countries - feedback from my female friends who flew there)

You don't need to worry about snatch thief also.
Unless it's during Holiday celebration in crowded area than different thing.

There's no perfect country, we have to learn to give and take.

_________

Hey, the_fallen, please come down to earth don't talk rod here. You are living in your own world. If you can't empathise and you live in your own world without putting yourself in other people's shoes, shut up. Get your facts right before coming here to pinpoint at people. Mr. Green

googoomuck SG

I agree that the wages have to be lowered to compete with cheaper labours elsewhere but the wages must also be realistic so that the bare cost of living can be met. How can a Singaporean sustain the cost of living in Singapore with forerign workers wages? Prices of every other essential things are going up. Especially leasing of HDB flats.
Safety is definitely compromised when certain risky jobs are outsourced. I remembered a recent mishap where a worker pruning a tree fell and died. The basket at the end of the crane boom was tilted because of the crane operators carelessness.
This worker need not die if the employer has issued safety belt to him and ensure that he used it. I also wonder if the crane operator is certified to operate the crane.
Some cheapskate employers dont invest in safety equipment, safety shoes or even issue disposible gloves to the workers.
Of cause there are other factors such as time pressure or reduced headcounts which contributed to industrial accidents. All for what? Their bottom line is save costs, increase profits, no budget for the wellbeing of the staff.

Arapahoe SG

i believe there are foreign Talent and there are foreigners lookin for jobs.

asdfzhao SG

Originally posted by the_fallen:
True, but try looking from their point of view too.
They at times have communication barrier with us Singaporeans too, thus they have to work double hard to catch up with us.

If they are living in Singapore while they are working, how much can they save anyway? Don't they have to pay their rental too?
Don't they need to buy meals everyday to eat?
How much can they send back after cutting away the expenses?
For them (for what I know) they (example China friends) come Singapore study, and work part time, they can save money no doubt, but once a year they go back, it cost a bomb, and thus their savings for the past 1 yr, gone in just a trip usually between CNY.

lets b realistic here... who cares how much they save? who cares what they eat? we, or rather i, care about how much i earn, what i eat! we didnt vote THEM to make our lives more difficult, we voted them to make our lives easier!

Originally posted by the_fallen:
Over doing it, perhaps, that's the way things are, and I'm supporting it.
I rather they come in, or we will suffer even more.
If they don't come in, our Taxes will SKY ROCKET till I don't even want to imagine.

Whatever tax the govt collected, partially goes to giving the elders as part of their benefits. More discounts here and there etc..

Do you want to pay more tax?
If you don't want, than learn to accept the FT.

O RLY?
taxes will rise?
are they not already rising? (hint GST)
part of the taxes go to elders as part of their benifits? more discount? where does the rest go?

y not subsidise even more? hospital bills especially. elders are prone to illnesses and injuries, and mediwhatever cant even cover the entire cost.
The money we earn is for us to spend and enjoy.

Originally posted by the_fallen:
Cost of living is high no doubt, this is the price that we have to pay for being in a 1st World Country where it's save to walk around without having to worry about sexual harassment when you walk in the streets. (Try walking in western countries - feedback from my female friends who flew there)

You don't need to worry about snatch thief also.
Unless it's during Holiday celebration in crowded area than different thing.

There's no perfect country, we have to learn to give and take.

yup, there every country is far from perfect, but
1St world country? (we are far from this, no wait... are you talking about the cost of living? if u are, we are pretty near here)
no sexual harassment?
no need to worry about snatch theives?
u've got to be joking!

Originally posted by the_fallen:
THis is what will happen to us when we don't act now!
They are the typical example of Sit and Wait for Doomsday.
They refuse to change, to upgrade, and learn new things to earn a living, instead they accept the fact that Singapore is too progressing too fast, they can't catch up.

But hey, if we were to think back, how many times has govt hinted and gave us promotions and post advertisments to encourage us to upgrade?

Did we heed their advice?
Majority of us didn't, thus who can we blame?

so what happened to those who upgraded? they got a job that lets them have 3 meals?
Sit and Wait? if u cant find a job, what else can u do except sit and wait? are upgrading courses free? if u are cash strapped, and having 3 meals is almost becoming a problem, would upgrading be the 1st thing on your mind?

Originally posted by the_fallen:
If govt encourage freeloaders than Singapore will go bankrupt in no time.

the govt can dont encourage freeloaders, but pls, have laws or regulations that protect the rights of the workers, instead of favoring the employers!

Originally posted by the_fallen:
Health, thousands of times, govt encourage us to lead a healthy life style, but how many of us really heed their advice?
In fact it should be we taking charge of our own health, govt don't even need to care nor help us, nor are they even obliged to help us in any way, since it's none of their business in the first place.

If we derserve to be help, than look around our surroundings, how many people are smoking despite govt keep increasing the cost of it?

How many really make it an effort to go exercise and keep a healthy life-style.
Don't give me the excuse of hectic work-life.
It's just a matter of we want to, or we must exercise.

healthy lifestyle? lol
how much time do we have to exercise?
govt not obliged to help us? den govt 4 wat 1? help themselves? or employers?
none of their business? if it was, they wouldnt even bother telling people to have a healthy lifestyle right?
the amount of people smoking despite rising costs? if the government really wanted to stop smoking, they could ban it, like what they did to chewing gum. is chewing gum detrimental to health in the 1st place? and you know y some people smoke? look cool? i think not, more like get out from their cubicle and relieve stress.

Originally posted by the_fallen:
It's just a mindset, there's always 2 sides to looking at every issue, just that I choose to look at the positive side.

As I myself see no gain in looking at the negative side, we don't earn anything, neither will our problems go away, thus when we look positive at least our life can be better.

really? looking in the negative side will cause 1 to improve, as he/she will find faults and try to make them disappear.
while looking on the positive side, he/she will be content and even if he/she does'nt become complacent, he.she can only sustain his/her results, cos he/she cant find areas to improve on.
lolppl

walesa SG

I think the dual issues of this regime's FT policy and globalisation are, while intrinsically linked to some extent, two seperate entities.

As someone has indicated in another thread on wage index, this regime's FT policy cannot be explained by the market forces of globalisation alone when what you've is an open policy of wooing foreigners on two fronts - the skilled ones whose expertise cannot be compensated for by the limited supply of such professionals locally and the unskilled ones willing to do a job at a price cheaper than the locals. Honestly, it's not the issue of the skilled professionals which many Singaporeans find hard to come to terms with (afterall, there're capable Singaporeans working in other parts of the world too). It is ultimately the latter that's the source of much gripe amongst locals here for it explains why the poorer educated locals (who, in turn, have more limited job options) remain the most marginalised in the process.

If anything, " globalisation " is nothing more than a smokescreen used to justify the inadequate safeguards this regime has in place for those marginalised Singaporeans who are feeling the effects of such engineered "globalisation" policies...

oxford mushroom SG

Whining will not reverse globalisation. If foreigners are can do the same job and are willing to do so at lower pay, the job will go to them.

For the hypocrites who talk about protecting jobs for locals, let me ask you: "Will you be willing to pay more to the restaurant owner who employs local workers?" Mr. Green

walesa SG

Just as idiots will never understand globalisation in its entirety... Laughing

lordofdarkness SG

What exactly is globalisation and what does it entail in its entirety?

I think OM put it quite simply and succintly, albeit not entirely sensitive to the greater majority of people. But nonetheless, in my humble opinion, he is right.

walesa SG

Perhaps, you'd like to go over this or this and ask those folks with gripes on why they find it hard to come to terms with the idea the 17th most expensive city in the world actually commands wages, which on an index after accomodating taxes, that is ranked the 36th most competitive?

If that's exclusively the result of globalisation, perhaps you could try explaining how Switzerland (whose immigration population expressed as a proportion of its total population is approximately half that of Singapore's) actually has 2 of its cities (Geneva is ranked 2nd on the wage index and the 7th most expensive city; Zurich is ranked 1st on the wage index and the 9th most expensive city) ranked as having the highest wage indexes while the gap between Singapore's cost of living and wage index remains disproportionately large?

If everything could be attributed to globalisation without the need for social responsibility, we shouldn't be seeing legislations to provide minimum wage (in many parts of the western world) or outlaw child labour (as is the case with many parts of the developing world), should we?

WHATODO SG

SCARED OF FT Ah??

This will become of you:

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering

<Precious> SG

Clearly, companies are taking advantage of labour law inadequacies to hire cheaper so-called f.t.s than locals Screw the top dogs who only know how to sit pretty up there looking through rose-tinted glasses and having absolutely no idea wat goes on the ground and yet still dare to demand an increase in salary! Wonder how those guys can sleep at night….......

the_fallen SG

Perhaps this is the way you feel.

I do understand how it feels like in fact.

Coz I'm also a singaporean myself.

I can only blame myself for not being useful to employers to secure at least a stable job.

I just lost a high paying part time job last month only. Don't I know how it hurts to lose income?

Lol.

I'm young, yet I already got 'early retrencement'
If I can get it so soon, I afraid there will be many others will will get such sudden notice of last min retrencement.

I work there for 2 months, than within just a short notice of 1 hr, i gtg leave the office in 2 hrs time. Is this the life that all of us are going to face too when we all work?

You may be right to a certain extent that I'm living in my own world, but I'm living in a world of being holding myself responsible for things which I can control, and not to complain this and that when we don't gain anything out of complaining.

I choose to be happy rather than to be sad via complaining this and that, only gain from complaining = additional wrinkles on face and grumpy face. Neutral

sourketchup SG

Simplistic logic again, eh?

Ignoring the NS that males (and their sons and grandsons) have to serve, the high cost of retirement here, the high cost of accomodation here and the high cost of education here.

Foreigners are NOT retiring here, they are NOT serving NS (with all the attendant sacrifices) and they will certainly NOT give a hoot if disaster befalls us, whereas our males would (willingly or unwillingly) have to bear arms in case that day comes.

Stop acting like Wee Shu-min.

rane SG

Hey, such is the cruelty of the employment market. There is no doubt that things are getting worse for the employees as the employers are getting more and more harsh in the way they treat employees especially for those who are seeking employment.

Yes, I do understand companies are careful to get the right people to work for them, but do they need to treat candidates and job seekers like criminals? Let's face it, companies and employers - not all people are lucky to work for many years in the companies. So why don't you companies and employers be human enough to be understanding while you exercise your wisdom to identify who are the real job hoppers. Be fair to us who are not job hoppers who are looking for employment. Mad

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