Is singapore education system unrelated to working world?

last SG · 2007-05-01T13:24:54+00:00

All fields require some degree of qualifications. There is no such thing as a field that doesn't need it. Say asking an engineer who used to work in an elec...

kilua SG

I think you over generalize as though as you understand every single field in the world. As bear said.. not everyone is an engineer. And the funny thing is you can make such statement sounding like you are always right....

I think there are fields where you hire based or experiences and projects that you have done, e.g Advertising/ art design/modelling/acting/ IT etc...

Usually a good portfolio beats qualification anytime. The person who hires based on qualification for these fields are simply inexperienced and naive.

kilua SG

Sometimes it appears that we are making a "choice". For example, Singapore has the lowest percentage of smokers in the world, but the external environment plays a big role. If cigarette prices were low and advertisement for Tobacco are allowed, do you think there would more people making their "choice" to smoke?

Similarly, when the govt uses the state media to bombard messages on which industry is good, isnt that a similar form of influence like advertising for tobacco companies? Isnt policies like limiting Singapore's education to Maths and the Sciences (in the past) helping people to make their "choice" as an engineer?

I would believe that we do have some choice e.g. not to smoke or litter, but the environment and govt policies also plays a huge role.

LazerLordz SG

Singapore = Compromise Central.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

I won't agree with you on this.

There are many experts around who have no qualifications, with some even refusing to take any sort of exams to prove their expertise.

In the computer world, as long as you prove your capabilities, qualifications are not needed. I've seen companies hiring such people, and seen people with qualifications doing things that endanger the whole company or putting people's lives in danger. Those people with experience but no qualifications do things the proper way. Then there are those who have qualifications who do things the other way round. Manual says one, they do the other way round and can't get things to work, wasting time troubleshooting and sending them for repairs because an electricity surge killed the devices.

As long as what one studies and what one experiences is partially related, I don't see how they can't jump over to another sector. The biotechnology sector is huge, and is not just limited to biology alone.

As one goes up higher in education, the lines between the different subjects blur. Maths at primary school level is just Maths, but once they move up to polytechnic levels and study engineering or computers, it's no longer Maths, it's about Science, engineering and logic.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Bill Gates is never talented programmer and will never be. Laughing

He was a talented businessman, and most people would generally agree with it.

And I also drive this into the skull of yours: if qualifications means that it taught you how to think, analyze and work your way through a job the way your major wants you to be, you've failed as a human.

Social work is not a thankless job. If you aren't a social worker or have not ever been a volunteer, you better not comment on this issue. Helping people comes from the bottom of your heart, not your head.

Arapahoe SG

U see the guy that reply my notes thats how negative thought destroy creativity. Don't let anybody tell you what u should do or should not do.

In work force U r not going to always find the exact problems that you find in academic field. What is critical is to be able to transpose your knowledge to your work.

Academic Project is one area that you pick up some of your interest. Look at others people project see what they do? draw experience from them gain that perspective.

U assume too much right or wrong answer in career move. U still have work experience to pick up.

googoomuck SG

It is said that of all the things youve learned in school, youll discover that only 20% is useful in work.
Today, most peoples career decision is based on regconition and pay..and how many engineers want get their hands dirty? They prefer a desk bound job to hands on work.
In the push to get through school, get a job, many people set aside their true passions in life.Then, at some point later in life they find themselves not fulfilled, not satisfied.
Take a personality test on your own to find out your aptitude, to match your true interests, passions, and values to the type of work which is right for you. Then you address the education issue.
But then again, technology advancement is too swift.. With too many changes in a short period of time and you soon lose confidence and become disillusioned with your work.

vito_corleone SG

bill gates took the idea of browser windows from macintosh and went to patent it seeing that apple was more interested in making money from producing computers rather than software and left their software system unpatented. go read something then talk leh Laughing

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

When I meant qualification, I also included the training given to that person on how he is taught to think. The process of getting a qualification in a university includes being taught a skill set that he is meant to apply to any field he is given. A qualification isn't just a piece of paper from a university you know.

Besides, companies look first at qualification then experience, unless you have ridiculously good reputation that precedes you already. Even for managing positions, MBAs look good on the record. Lots of executives, say in the top US companies have MBAs for that sole reason. Job Ads for higher positions always list the minimum and they always include a degree. Experience and what not is just to add icing to the cake.

Besides, just because I used engineers as examples doesn't mean this is limited to engineering. I know of psychology majors who end up doing HR work and marketing since they are trained to know how humans think and look out for trends in human behaviour.

And by the way, a person trained in an acting school on average acts much better than the trash that Hollywood occasionally grabs. And even for advertising jobs, you are likely to get some arts major which specialises in drawing jobs unless you are some genius at art, which is hard to come by. As for modeling, that's a bit of ridiculous comparison isn't it? How many people are born with good looks?

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

I assume you also know that he wrote the his own Basic interpreter. Does that diminish his skills in any way? Not least he was involved in the some of the early mac development.

walesa SG

While you could technically make a case that knowledge could be acquired on one's own initiative, there's no denying that qualifications for professional degrees - medicine, law, dentistry, engineering and accountancy are some examples of professional degrees - are still required globally should one wish to practise in that field.

In that sense, interest and circumstances permitting, such professional degrees would still merit more relevance to its particular industry than say a literature degree for someone who wishes to teach literature in school.

walesa SG

Half the question centres around yourself if you've actually thought about it. What you choose to study at college and what you ultimately decide to do for a living are two seperate entities altogether - while you could choose to study something that prepares you for a career in that field, you're not obliged to do so. Herein lies the paradox : what happens if you choose to pursue a career in a field unrelated to your area of specialisation?

Truth be told, degrees in the relevant discipline really aren't that sought after if you were to consider the practices of many of the developed nations ( I must stress this approach does not extend to include industries requiring professional certification like law, medicine and engineering ). One of the reasons why the finance industry proves so appealing ( besides the financial lure ) to all and sundry stems from the fact that most of the world's top financial institutions would actually - and quite readily - hire graduates from across a vast array of disciplines for numerous positions.

In truth, I think that has served them pretty well considering what such firms need are human beings equipped with the skills to analyse, think and make rational decisions ( known to many in such industries as "life skills" ), rather than a machine with a photographic memory capable of regurgitating knowledge/facts. In that sense, successful applicants for such jobs are deemed - at least, in the eyes of the employer - to have acquired sufficient skills to make these decisions in school ( while one may further contend that it isn't realistic to restrict such employment opportunities to college graduates, they unfortunately have to use some sort of benchmark to determine if you've been schooled sufficiently and competently to have acquired a reasonable grasp of life skills ). At the end of the day, that's what most employers care about.

Of course the abovementioned wouldn't apply to someone without a degree in a relevant field wanting to work as a doctor/lawyer/engineer/accountant...

january SG

Originally posted by walesa:

While you could technically make a case that knowledge could be acquired on one's own initiative, there's no denying that qualifications for [b]professional degrees - medicine, law, dentistry, engineering and accountancy are some examples of professional degrees - are still required globally should one wish to practise in that field.

In that sense, interest and circumstances permitting, such professional degrees would still merit more relevance to its particular industry than say a literature degree for someone who wishes to teach literature in school.[/b]

to tell u y experience, what i have learnt in electrical engineering in NUS is mainly lecture notes, theory stuff. Hands on are lab session, progamming stuff, and project stuff also take up part of the learning.

This itheory nformation can be easily obtained. you can just ask a engineering friend to print all these things. There are also many breath modules and also quite theory based.

lab session, programming and software and project stuff do requires you to be in the school to use the facilities.

therefore the difference bewteen self learner and degree student is the inability to use lab session facilities, programming software and project related things.

i not stating any point here though.

walesa SG

I too am an Electrical Engineer by training, but I don't live by the trade I've been schooled in either.

What you've observed, in essence, was what I addressed earlier. While you could self-learn the rotes of the trade on your own, you can only practise as an engineer if you're certified/accredited by the body that governs your particular specialised profession (if applicable) - that, in truth, is how things work for every industry that requires professionals (ie.people without accreditation are not recognised in that industry). In our case (assuming you and I decide to become practising engineers in Singapore), we - through our degrees - are accredited by the PEB (Singapore) to do that job. That is what seperates us from those who aspire to be an engineer - and may even be more knowledgeable than us - but do not have the qualifications to allow them to practise the trade by PEB (http://www.peb.gov.sg/peb/html/index.html).

What I'm trying to say is, if your alternative career is not a job that requires professional qualifications and accreditations, you're absolutely not disadvantaged just because you decide to work in a field that is unrelated to your studies...

ndmmxiaomayi SG

He didn't wrote his own Basic interpreter. Period.

vito_corleone SG

so which idea is he so successfully selling and monopolising now? other programmes or the windows browser that made microsoft? Laughing

ndmmxiaomayi SG

therefore the difference bewteen self learner and degree student is the inability to use lab session facilities, programming software and project related things.

And the difference between a self learner and a degree student is the initiative.

I may not be an engineering student, but based on the softwares that my current engineering friends are using, I wouldn't say they are unobtainable. If you want to go the legal route, you have to pay for the softwares used. If you don't, go online and look for cracks or use open-sourced tools. I choose the latter.

Lab equipment wise, it will all depends on the type of engineering. I wouldn't expect someone doing biomedical engineering to have the money to buy those equipment, but those electrical engineering, to have the ability to pay for them. Even if they can't, there are lots of second hand stuff that can be bought and be used as learning materials. I have lots of second hand stuff at home, all have been repaired and is usable now. Nothing is really impossible if you are willing to take the initiative.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

PC... go and read his biography in Microsoft...

It's ironic if you think of it.

walesa SG

It is indeed ironic. All that before you discount the charm he had in life - Gates had actually offered to sell the rights of DOS to IBM, only for IBM to turn him down. What happened thereafter, as most would already know, is history...

january SG

After some thought i realized what i want to say abt singapore education system.

For primary and secondary school and JC, it does not charge alot so it is quite efficent thing.

For university and polytechnic, it charges alot for lecture fees. Lecture mainly teaches theory stuff and it brings alot of revenue to the university. Profits for university is good for university but bad for students becos if u calculate the lecture fees, it is going to cost a lot.

The point is this, lecture notes can be disseminated easily and people who are willing to read it will learn about it without the lecturer and save a lot of money.

Saving money is good news for students and it will leave us less debt when we enter the working world. This is precisely what i think the education system is not efficient enough.

The education system should allow self learning for theory part and hence allow students to save more money. This is not happening in singapore or other countries but lets leave out other countries for this discussion.

Usage of software and sophisticated computers, lab equipment, administration cost of setting test and project are hard to self learn so its fair that university charge student a certain amount of money.

As i have said, if my suggestion is implementated, the university/or polytechnic will has a great loss in revenue.

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