Emigrated Singaporeans

last SG · 2007-04-20T09:25:27+00:00

Indian oso people mah.You talk some more about karma ah wait you reborn as Roti Prata man then you know!>

soul_rage SG

This is addressed to singaporeans who have made the decision to emigrate. I am curious to hear some 1st hand accounts from you.
I am open to the idea of emigrating, becoz my profession is pretty mobile. But when I spoke of this, some of my friends raised a few questions (Actually they were questioning my loyalty Smile ):

1) Is it true that being a 2nd class citizen is really bad elsewhere as compared to being a 1st class citizen in Singapore?
2) How tough was it for you to emigrate, leaving behind friends, and probably family as well? How do you cope with parents still being here in Singapore?
3) How are Singaporeans regarded in the country you reside in? Do others hate us/like us?
4) How long did you take to adapt to a new country? Any severe problems?

Thanks, it would be really nice to have some 1st hand accounts

Short Ninja SG

Yes being second class citizen is bad anywhere but I dont remember being treated as first class citizen when I was a Singaporean either.Parents gone so its easier to cope with Migration,I miss eating the local food more than my friends.In Japan many people dont know anything about Singapore or where the rest of the World come from but it is ok cuz they dont even know their own Emperor's name.Still trying to adapt as a Japanese because we are treated as 'Gaijins' (outsiders) the same way you would treat your foreign talents.No severe problems,just the usual everyday remarks and irritating treatment we get as gaijins...........like the way you treat your PRC foreign talents.KNNCCB!!!

Arapahoe SG

Emigration means starting from scratch. Means impact on the next generation if new host country are different in value system. Mean u must learn the life style from scratch. superficially it is easy but once you put your roots down, get your own home or whatever, u are than into the system.

So u must be willing to learn and accept the life style that is where ever u wish to go. Having been moving back and fore i think some adaptation still require and u are not going to accept everything that your new host country gives.

2nd class citizens are people label on themselve. Penetrating into a new country could be difficult because of legal issue, Career be sure you take a job you already have experience in Singapore to reduce learning curve, cause you have to learn the local culture,system of work.

Communication with your family and friends are easy these days. Like i am working oversea right now talking to you.

The one thing about Being Singaporean is really Good because we are so small a population we are scattered so u don't find your kind u tend to be unique for most of the time. (For the record : I can't speak for individual who when to Australia.)

Adapting to host country. Usually initial shock and home sick would be 3 to 6 months after you settledown. You ask yourself what the heck am i doing here!!!! Or when things don't get alone as you expected.

Once you settled down it would be 1 year later.

Remember though when you are already old and have kids. It is usually the kids that you are working for rather than yourself, your kids will intergrate far better than you and once you get involved in school you most likely to get into the system.

The question of Royalty..., but my view in this :

First you must have Your own inner family in your home than you can have a country to defend.

Not the chinese proverb you must have a Country first latter home to defend.

If you find yourself unconsiously unable to put down roots in Singapore. You decide which idea to adopt?

But Just because you live in another country does not means you totally throw away Singapore. it doesn;t work this way you will always make your connection to Singapore. Because your mind n your psyche still bring you back to your childhood --- that is in Singapore!!!!

Coquitlam SG

Hi Soul RAge

First of all, I want you to congratulate you on taking that step to consider emigrating. I will state that emigrating is not for everyone and I will agree that only some of us will take that step and some will forever remain as loyal stayers of Sillypore.....then again, no one should question your loyalty if you want to quit.

Take a look around you and see what is going on in the world today, better yet if you have lived overseas to work and study, you will know what I mean and you can make a better informed choice. End of the day, whether you leave or not is your decision and yours only and let no one come and tell you that you are disloyal. Remember where all your ancestors come from. Sillypore is a land of immigrants too and so what is the big deal about emigrating. If you emigrate, some day your children will be citizens of another land and they may choose to emigrate or stay on in their land of birth to contribute, either way is good.

Anyway, look around and see where the economies of eastern europe, china, india and the US or russian is going, its getting globalized. Everyone is moving everywhere and those who tell you its bad to quit are narrow minded and so small in their outlook in life, we pity them. Best way to look at it is that its your own personal decision and they cannot influence you and neither should we influence stayers to leave.....take careful note that they proportion of people from PRC and India coming to settle in Sillypore will also grow...so what is the big deal...

In answering your questions.

Were we ever treated as 1st class citizens here in the first place. I feel more like a 3rd class citizens with FTs getting a better deal. I might as well become an FT somewhere else.

Of course its tough emigarting, leaving friends and parents behind, let no one kid you...its a tough decision and there are lots of adjustments to be made. Was it not tough on all the early immgirants to Sillypore in the early 1900s? I think our society has gotten soft, complaining about every little small damn thing instead of getting on in life.

I think if you want to do well eleswhere, you have to persevere, stand your ground and work very hard so that you will be respected. Of course a little help here and there helps and you need to be street smart.

Personally it took me about 2-3 years to adapt but oh boy once you adapt, you are really into it and gonna enjoy it. Don't forget you have to work hard too but you will enjoy all the intangibles that you would not have found in Sillypore....just read a little and find out what's going on around you and other parts of the world.......you will realize how small we are here and how we think....so narrow in scope...

Recommend that you read the book 'The world is flat' by Thomas L Friedman to see how fast the world is changing and if Sillypore is not careful, it will be overrun. Also go check out websites like webshots and pbase to see pics of how we lead lives overseas in Melbourne, Vancouver, SHanghai....beautiful man....also go read forums and discussion boards to ask around.....don't need to teach you all these man....you will know how to check it all out if you are street smart.....Now we are enjoying spring in Vancouver and we ex-Sillyporeans love it man.....

Ms me if you want to know more. I'm sure we have others here willing to contribute

walesa SG

I can't give you an account in terms of what emigration could entail as I've basically lived, studied and worked for sustained periods in various parts of the world - in essence, I'm more of a global citizen who trots the globe depending on where my job takes me (personally, I'm as at home at New York as I'm in Geneva - so I can't give you advice on that front). However, I hope I could shed some light on what it feels like to leave this place...

Seriously, worrying about your loyalty to this regime is the last thing you should have on your mind. Anyway, answer to your questions :
1) Let's be clear about it. You may be a 1st class citizen here, but is your lot better than those of the "foreign talents"? More importantly - and this may sound ironic, but I'm sure many of those who currently reside abroad can testify - do you still want to remain a 1st class citizen here if the treatment you get is actually worse than what you're subjected to as 2nd class citizens elsewhere? As someone I know aptly puts it, "why do you want to be the wife if the cocubine gets the better deal?"
2) This is an increasingly interconnected and globalised world - a phone call, video-conferencing session is just a button away. More importantly, you could always come back here to visit your family/friends regularly if you miss them. By the way, how old are you? Are you married? If you've got a family of your own, you could actually invite your parents/in-laws to move over with you.
3) No comments on Singaporeans specifically. In cosmopolitan cities like London and New York, you will be interacting with people from all over the globe - integrating shouldn't be a problem at all.
4) I didn't need much time to adapt at all.

Actually, if you have a particular city/country you'd like to go to. Why not try applying for a job in that specific city/country? You can decide if you want to emigrate there after having a stint there yourself...Hope it helps somewhat. Wink

soulwinner SG

My aunt just migrate to Austz

soul_rage SG

Thanks mate, your info is useful Smile
I just did my 1st job hop a few months back, and it caused me substantial pain coz I was previously finishing my bond with a singapore company for 4 years.
Suffice to say, the pain was necessary, coz my current job values me above the actual valuation on the market, and I feel more proud of what I do.

It was after this move, that I realised that moving to another thing isn't as painful as I thought (though it was still painful probably coz I was too comfortable in my previous env).

Now, I am contemplating moving overseas, coz now I know that my value is higher than the lies told by any of those scumbag Singapore companies, and that I probably can get a better living overseas.

It is also helped that during my time in NUS, my cohort was made up of Indonesians, Indians, westerners, Chinese, vietnamese, so I already was used to interacting with people from different cultures.

Would like to msg you on Vancouver, ok rite?

walesa SG

If you majored in IT/engineering, I believe Canada has a particular friendly immigration policy for people with such expertise (at least, that was the case when I attended Stanford some years back...)

soul_rage SG

Originally posted by walesa:

I can't give you an account in terms of what emigration could entail as I've basically lived, studied and worked for sustained periods in various parts of the world - in essence, I'm more of a global citizen who trots the globe depending on where my job takes me (personally, I'm as at home at New York as I'm in Geneva - so I can't give you advice on that front). However, I hope I could shed some light on what it feels like to leave this place...

Seriously, worrying about your loyalty to this regime is the last thing you should have on your mind. Anyway, answer to your questions :
1) Let's be clear about it. You may be a 1st class citizen here, but is your lot better than those of the "foreign talents"? More importantly - and this may sound ironic, but I'm sure many of those who currently reside abroad can testify - [b]do you still want to remain a 1st class citizen here if the treatment you get is actually worse than what you're subjected to as 2nd class citizens elsewhere? As someone I know aptly puts it, "why do you want to be the wife if the cocubine gets the better deal?"
2) This is an increasingly interconnected and globalised world - a phone call, video-conferencing session is just a button away. More importantly, you could always come back here to visit your family/friends regularly if you miss them. By the way, how old are you? Are you married? If you've got a family of your own, you could actually invite your parents/in-laws to move over with you.
3) No comments on Singaporeans specifically. In cosmopolitan cities like London and New York, you will be interacting with people from all over the globe - integrating shouldn't be a problem at all.
4) I didn't need much time to adapt at all.

Actually, if you have a particular city/country you'd like to go to. Why not try applying for a job in that specific city/country? You can decide if you want to emigrate there after having a stint there yourself...Hope it helps somewhat. Wink [/b]

That's true, you know, the FTs earned much more than the poor Singaporeans, and the Singaporeans have to pay taxes, pay more GST, and do national service to protect these FTs. I don't blame the FTs, but more the govt, for the way Singaporeans are made to have low self-esteem (coz they want to make us cheap, such that more investments will come to SG, and they can pay more to themselves)

We are told from the start that we must accept lower pay, accept horrible working conditions, accept FTs earn more than us, only coz it serves the govt's needs. It is NOT TRUE. I assure all Singaporeans reading this, it is NOT TRUE, that we must live the way the govt want us to live, coz its only for their own benefit.

Am married, my wife is a FT Razz , and I am looking currently at Australia, Shanghai or Canada. And yes, I have revamped my resume, and soon I am going to start sending my resumes to overseas postings.

soul_rage SG

yea talk about Karma, I disliked PRCs in University coz several of them were proud and refused to talk to Singaporeans.

Then I fell in love with a gal from China, smart, pretty, lovely Smile

And now my stance of foreigners have lessened immensely (except for indians)

talk about karma Smile Maybe its also karma I have to emigrate and understand the pains of these FTs

soul_rage SG

Thanks mate for the info Smile Am getting more idea of what is going on overseas. Which country are you in? and what sort of taxes do you face?

sgquitter SG

Canada is definitely a very potential place to migrate to.

but i read alot of problems on certain websites - e.g. no jobs, etc? can anyone tell me if its true?

http://www.notcanada.com/faq.htm

are you sure that canada needs IT professionals?

Coquitlam SG

Hehe I really envy you Walesa....I stayed in Sunnyvale for quite a while and I love your campus...you sure have a beautiful campus. Hehehe, I took the Cal train to your campus

Actually we have an immigrant friendly policy for other disciplines as well...

Coquitlam SG

Sure mate, msg me anytime...aiyoh, not all sg companies are bad mah, I started a company in sgs and its my business as well.

soul_rage SG

ok ok, I have to make a correction

GOVERNMENT-LINKED Companies Smile

b3cky SG

(1) Being a "second class citizen" is really not that much of a diff benefits wise.. its pretty much the same unless u're worried about racial issues between citizens which is of course inevitable in every part of the world but there are lotsa nice people out there too.

(2) It always is tough to leave friends and family behind because of bonds and such but given the technology nowadays.. there are still many ways of communication and also the visiting option, besides, how often is it do you meet everyone up in a year?

(3) Its only natural that u may feel like an outsider during the initial period, its just a matter of getting used to and ability to socialise well.

(4) About a year. Depends on the individual really.

As my uncle has emigrated to aussie for a couple of years now, there doesnt seem to be much of a problem at all and the entire family are adapting well, I may not be the one who emigrated but i visit often enough to be able to advice as I myself have plans on emigrating there as well and have had the same quries as yourself which my uncle did manage to clear my doubts on. Hope this helps u too. Just a note though, be sure of ur decision as emigration requires lotsa work and documentation, I know my uncle needed 2 years to get all the approval and neccessary paperwork done before moving there.

Hope this helps alittle. Very Happy

justcooler SG

Totally agree with what you have mention.

Just a few more points to add

1) Measure the pros and cons of leaving and staying, migrating and settling in another country is not as bad as some have mentions. Move to a country with lower pop density, you will miss the buzzing of singapore life style. But you then to gain something else (more outdoor activities/outings, more time with immediate families, etc, etc).

2) Reports and discussions on forums may sometime over state the troubles and problems of a candidate countries. Go there yourself and take a look. Ask any friends who are there and then decided.

3) Generally for singaporeans, it is very easy for us to blend into both western and eastern societies, the adv of dual languages system. It is just luck on the types of people you meet. And also, it is in our blood to constantly move from places to places.

4) If anyone of you have the ability to migrate, go for it. Rather to be brand as a quitter then to stay and support the highest paying ministers in the world.

Gedanken SG

1) I've never been stopped from doing anything that a local could do - what second-class citizen? On the social front, I hear what walesea's saying - I've never had a problem popping into a pub or a restaurant in any country and starting a conversation with a stranger at the next table.
2) I've always been the sort to run my own show, and my parents were not too worried about my decision to move. If anything, my old man had the idea of moving to England himself.
3) From my experience, Singaporeans tend to come across as being nice enough, but they can be fussy and whingy. Just avoid any discussion of chewing gum or hanging. Mr. Green
4) No adaptation needed - I was down at the pub knocking back shots of Jack Daniels with a couple of local lads within two hours of landing, and within four hours I was hauling them by their collars out of the cop shop.

walesa SG

sgquitter : I do not know if IT professionals/specialists still get a priority today - I'm speaking from my knowledge when I was still a student in the US a couple of years ago. Coquitlam (or any others who currently reside in Canada) would probably be able to better advise you on that... Wink

Meia Gisborn SG

Now, there's a story I'd like to hear! Mr. Green