Francis Seow,lawyers,politics& foreign powers

last SG · 2007-03-03T01:36:27+00:00

Well, we have to start somewhere to balance out the state-run discourse in order to find a middle path eventually. Surely you would have to agree that our na...

lionnoisy SG

...In Singaore,subversion includes acting for foreign powers,whether
communist or western....

MHA,07 May 1988.read link below.

This statement also apply in 2007!!

The former AG Francis Seow sad story is a classcial example
of the above.Lawyers have to do justice for country man.
But it is dangerous to look for material supports from foreign
powers ,even US,to win power in SG!

If Francis Seow become PM,would SG become another state
of US?

US gov has neither disputed nor refuted SG's claim that First Secretary of the US Embassy interfered in SG's domestic affairs,urging SG lawyers
contest for election,among other things.

If u gain support from US,I gain support from PRC,she from MY,
he from UK,....SG will become battle grounds of other countries.

2.This thread is inspired by CSJ to call'' IBA to express firm stand on human rights abuses in Singapore'',28 Feb 07CSJ's view on Francis Seow
make me do some home works.

3.Do u think it is easy for SG to decide expel First Secretary of the US Embassy in Singapore

Soon after Mr. Seow's arrest,Hank Hendrickson, First Secretary of the US Embassy in Singapore was expelled from the island for meddling in Singapore politics.

.

How did US react?11/05/1988

SINGAPORE GOVERNMENT PRESS STATEMENT ON THE WITHDRAWAL OF THE FIRST SECRETARY (POLITICAL) IN THE SINGAPORE EMBASSY IN WASHINGTON DC BY THE US GOVERNMENT.

4.

"It was no secret that I was friendly with Hank," Mr Seow said in an interview after his seven week detention.

"We met on many occasions and discussed various matters including politics. But I was in no way in the pay of the United States. That is hogwash."

5.read materials first ,think and conclude who is more reliable?

last 2 pages of the below,No. Date Speaker Title
1. 07/05/1988

SINGAPORE GOVERNMENT PRESS STATEMENT REGARDING HENDRICKSON, PATRICK SEONG

search Hendrickson,both press release and speech,date 1975 to 2007.

read Hank Hendrickson urged SG lawyers contest in election.

6.

The (SG) Government noted that US gov has neither disputed nor refuted the facts in Patrick Seong's Statutory Declaration and the Gov statement of 7 May ( 1988 )

search US Embassy ,1950 to 2007,press release.

SINGAPORE GOVERNMENT PRESS STATEMENT ASSUMING THAT THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT ISSUED BY MR RICHARD GONG OF THE US EMBASSY IS THE ONLY AND FINAL REPLY OF THE US GOVERNMENT----08/05/1988

7.Where did the $$$ of Seow come from??
How did Francis leave SG?

US paid some S$500,000 to a SG politican in 1950's.
REAd LKY book for details.

8.Spy game is never end in SG for its geographical poistion ,wealth etc.--Spys caught in Spore--no joke

maurizio13 SG

Perhaps if Francis had succeeded we won't be in such dire consequences now.

I guess the US couldn't tolerate Singapore's form of "democracy" and wanted a change in the government.

maurizio13 SG

Francis Seow is a Singapore-born political dissident who is in self-imposed exile from Singapore. He was educated at Saint Joseph's Institution in Singapore and at the Honourable Society of the Middle Temple in London. Seow is currently a United States citizen, and a University Fellow based in the Department of Asian Studies at Harvard University.

Seow joined the Singapore Legal Service in 1956 and rose through the ranks to become Solicitor General 1969, a position he held until 1971. During his career he served under the administration of Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, and was appointed senior counsel to a Commission of Inquiry in the Secondary IV examination boycott by Chinese students in 1963, prior to Singapore's entry into Malaysia. For his work, Seow was awarded the Public Administration (Gold) Medal. He eventually left public service and entered into private law practice in 1972.

He was later suspended from law practice for 12 months by Chief Justice Wee Chong Jin for breach of an undertaking made to the Attorney General while in private practice. Nonetheless, he was later elected a member of the Council of the Law Society in 1976, and eventually became its President in 1986.

His new appointment led to a falling out with Lee Kuan Yew after he became embroiled in the politics surrounding the role of the Law Society. He ran for the Parliament of Singapore as part of the Workers' Party team that contested the Eunos Group Representation Constituency in the 1988 Singapore general election. His team secured 49.11% of valid votes, losing marginally to the PAP team.

Just before the election, he was detained without trial under the Internal Security Act for 72 days, accused of having received funds from the United States and advice for the purpose of promoting democracy in Singapore. According to his account, he was subjected to torture, including sleep deprivation and intense air-conditioning. During the elections, he was criticised as being an American stooge. Later, while awaiting trial for tax evasion, he fled the country and was convicted in absentia. These events are alleged by many to have been politically motivated, and part of a pattern of lawsuits and criminal proceedings against dissenters in Singapore.

Francis Seow tells his story in the semi-autobiographical To Catch a Tartar: A Dissident in Lee Kuan Yew's prison (1994). In the book, Seow recounts his career in the legal service and his personal experience of being detained by the Internal Security Department. He also accuses the government of Singapore of authoritarianism and human rights abuses under Lee Kuan Yew. The book also contains a foreword by former Singapore President Devan Nair that is equally critical of the Singapore government. Since then Seow has written another book, The Media Enthralled (199 Cool , which describes how he believes the Singapore government undermined freedom of the media and turned them into pro-government mouthpieces.

Despite his exile he has spoken at events organized by Singapore student societies in universities outside of Singapore.

Since when does receiving funds from the US constitute a violation to the security of Singapore?

I guess the old man deem Francis was a threat to his continued dominance over Singapore, that's why he was detained without trial and sujected to ill treatment. Getting funds from US and running in an election is deemed subversive? I think it's a blatant abuse of the ISA.

weiqimun SG

mmmmm.....i like him already

lionnoisy SG

How Francis Seow got S$420,000 to settle his debts?

Pl read the SG gov press release pp6,7.
PAP also put its head on chopping board for this claim.

I dunt care where is Francis Seow now.He is in Haevad or
teach in primary school is not related his behavoir
in SG.

maurizio13 SG

I guess for some people, after they acquire all the basic hierarchy of needs they proceed to satisfy the highest level of need, which is self actualisation. Helping fellow Singaporeans achieve Democracy, unlike a despot who can only cling on to greed and power.

asdfzhao SG

great! noe lionoisy has given 1side of the picture, and maurizio13 the other side, we can judge! Very Happy

but i dun understand what lionoisy is driving at Confused ... can explain?

BillyBong SG

The former AG Francis Seow sad story is a classcial example
of the above.Lawyers have to do justice for country man.
But it is dangerous to look for material supports from foreign
powers ,even US,to win power in SG!

If Francis Seow become PM,would SG become another state
of US?

US gov has neither disputed nor refuted SG's claim that First Secretary of the US Embassy interfered in SG's domestic affairs,urging SG lawyers
contest for election,among other things.

If u gain support from US,I gain support from PRC,she from MY,
he from UK,....SG will become battle grounds of other countries.

Question: Are we not already heavily dependent on US for support? Both economically and military-wise?

Why else can Dick Cheney's private jet land in SG and no where else?

Why did our Navy design Changi Naval Base to have docks capable of supporting a CV-class Aircraft Carrier when our largest naval vessel is an LST?

LKY has mentioned many times that a strong US presence in the region is good for stability. Didn't he literally imply 'good stability' for SG?

It's common knowledge that US has a ridiculous policy of INTERFERENCE with foreign nations. Why must Francis T Seow and other 'govt-labelled dissidents' be used as the scapegoats to claim foreign intervention in our policies?

Another poor attempt at trying to confuse the masses?

^tamago^ SG

pruss one tonne!!

reyes SG

Just before the election, he was detained without trial under the Internal Security Act for 72 days, accused of having received funds from the United States and advice for the purpose of promoting democracy in Singapore. According to his account, he was subjected to torture, including sleep deprivation and intense air-conditioning. During the elections, he was criticised as being an American stooge. Later, while awaiting trial for tax evasion, he fled the country and was convicted in absentia. These events are alleged by many to have been politically motivated, and part of a pattern of lawsuits and criminal proceedings against dissenters in Singapore.

anyone who can subjected to such torture from the ruling party deserve my respect!! why does lionoisy wish to bring out this hero to our attention?
i get to learn more reason why could not support the ruling party everyday.

lionnoisy SG

2.US gov has neither disputed nor refuted SG's claim that
First Secretary of the US Embassy interfered in SG's
domestic affairs,urging SG lawyers
contest for election,among other things.

pl read MHA,07 May 1988 statement from the link in my opening
post ,think and talk .

How Seow left SG?By USS sub or hidden in US dilpomatic
bag?or there is a tunnel in US Embassy leading to St John Island?

How SEow got so much $$$ to pay his debts?

3.Seow will not be last one approached by foreign power
to promote democracy in SG and get what they want.
Our huge reserve is one of their main target,under
the pretest of promoting freedom and democracy here.

U think no one spy on SG?read this:

SG never short of spies
Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng )said in a written reply released in Parliament on 20.01.1999 and reported in Zaobao on 22.01.1999:
extract:6 persons were detained in 1997 and 1998 under Order of Detention for
espionage.4 of them had been released under Suspension Order.

1.In 1997,one female Sg citizen and a male SPR were arrested.The man worked for a foreign spy agency and he recruited the female to assist him.

2.In 1998,4 sg male citizens were arrested. 3 worked for foreign spy agency. One of them recruited the 4 th.They were spying to collect info in local community organisations and espionage.

3.The two caught in 1997 and two in 1998 had been released
after detained for 4 to 11 months.

End of extract

4.The two remaining were still detained in June 2000,as told by Mr Wong
in a interview by ZB on 26.06.2000.

5. One was still on Restriction Order

Parliment 2003-03-14
Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng) answered to a question:
How many people are now detained for espionage cases? As of today, actually nobody has been detained. All have been released, and one is on a restriction order.

maurizio13 SG

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

2.US gov has neither disputed nor refuted SG's claim that
First Secretary of the US Embassy interfered in SG's
domestic affairs,urging SG lawyers
contest for election,among other things.

pl read MHA,07 May 1988 statement from the link in my opening
post ,think and talk .

How Seow left SG?By USS sub or hidden in US dilpomatic
bag?or there is a tunnel in US Embassy leading to St John Island?

How SEow got so much $$$ to pay his debts?

3.Seow will not be last one approached by foreign power
to promote democracy in SG and get what they want.
Our huge reserve is one of their main target,under
the pretest of promoting freedom and democracy here.

U think no one spy on SG?read this:

[b]SG never short of spies
Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng )said in a written reply released in Parliament on 20.01.1999 and reported in Zaobao on 22.01.1999:
extract:6 persons were detained in 1997 and 1998 under Order of Detention for
espionage.4 of them had been released under Suspension Order.

1.In 1997,one female Sg citizen and a male SPR were arrested.The man worked for a foreign spy agency and he recruited the female to assist him.

2.In 1998,4 sg male citizens were arrested. 3 worked for foreign spy agency. One of them recruited the 4 th.They were spying to collect info in local community organisations and espionage.

3.The two caught in 1997 and two in 1998 had been released
after detained for 4 to 11 months.

End of extract

4.The two remaining were still detained in June 2000,as told by Mr Wong
in a interview by ZB on 26.06.2000.

5. One was still on Restriction Order

Parliment 2003-03-14
Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng) answered to a question:
How many people are now detained for espionage cases? As of today, actually nobody has been detained. All have been released, and one is on a restriction order.
[/b]

Where do you get all your informational sources from?

Ministry this, Ministry that, it's all a one sided view. Did you get any information from Francis Seow? Don't tell me you are going to judge a person based on a one sided information provided by prosecution? No wonder we are not a democracy but a hybrid regime.

Gazelle SG

Do you know that Francis Seow and Mah Bao Tan is related?

LazerLordz SG

Francis Seow was a power player in SG politics in the 80s. Eloquent and hard-hitting. He knew the Establishment inside out, maybe he knew too much.

That man in Parliament, the ex Solicitor-General of Singapore and at one time, potential candidate to be the Chief Justice, debated with vigour and did not take any crap from other MPs. By the way, he was awarded the Public Administration (Gold) Medal in 1972.

I suppose he's better off today as a University Fellow in the Human Rights Program of Harvard Law School, and a Orville Schell Fellow of Yale Law School.

Those who do not know much about this man, should read his works. You will realise that he is fiercely nationalist, more so than many can say about some of our leaders. The only problem is that he has a different view of how Singapore should be. A more free society with greater respect for plurality. He believed that the Law Society should have a more active role as an NGO to speak for the people on legislation that could have an impact on their lives.

Simply put, his ideology and LKY's ideology could not have enough space in one room, and he lost out due to reasons that are bleeding obvious.

Maybe one day people will have a fairer pov. And remember, do not always believe one side of the story, especially in our country where the media has admitted to playing the role of the administration's spokesman. That in itself is enough to say a lot about the levels of comparative veracity and balanced reporting.

--

He was recently invited to give speeches at Brown University and Uni of Penn, to the Singaporean diaspora. Wink

lionnoisy SG

when PAP issued news release,they put their head on chopping board.

u can chop them even 20 years later.

Can we do some home works,read this and that,even Seow books
and then talk.

I am not sure Seow can win LKY in election,though MFA claimed
he said so .Seow also said he had backing of US Statement
and asylum would be given.Indeed,i think,it did.

Lets read and talk.
Document 1 of 1
Caption

THE GOVERNMENT HAS ISSUED A DETENTION ORDER FOR A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR AGAINST FRANCIS SEOW TO PREVENT HIM FROM ACTING IN ANY MANNER PREJUDICIAL TO THE SECURITY OF SINGAPORE

Type Press Release
Speaker
Date of Speech 05/06/1988
Occasion
Document No. 833-1988-06-05
Microfilm No.
Source MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION
Access Code Open Access

search Francis Seow,
press release
date 01/01/1950 to 01/01/2007

2.Politics like playing foot balls.
u can send only 11 men to play.Dunt send more than 11.
By asking for financial,political help from foreign countries,
whether communist,semi--communist,democratic western,
u are selling our SG out.

There is no free lunch and once u are in power,u have to
pay back.U think they support u for sake of democracy
and freedom.

SG people dunt need other to FREE us.
Our passport and education help us migrate.

DO NOT ACT FOR FOREIGN POWERS.
THEY CANT PULL U OUT FROM WHITLEY ROAD DETENTION CENTERguarded by

maurizio13 SG

In what way was he acting prejudicial to the security of Singapore? By running for elections? The only thing prejudicial about the whole issue is PAP's dominance of the political arena. The old man saw him as a threat and he sought to eliminate him. Can you tell me what was it that he did that made his actions prejudicial to the security of Singapore?

Yes. Pay them back with democracy. Please afew hundred thousand US dollars (S$500,000) is PEANUTS compared to our minister's salary. It's a grain of sand when compared to the GDP of USA. When I see a crippled person begging in the streets, I give him $10. Does this mean I will ask him something in return? Did he sell out himself to me?

You are not thinking with your head again, you only ingest the trash the government feeds you and regurgitate it out undigested.

I suppose all those aunties and uncles working as hawkers, factory production workers, cleaners, taxi drivers, etc, can emigrate to a better country? I would say maybe 75% of the population are non-degree holders, I don't have the statistics and I am too lazy to check.

Your statement of "Our passport and education help us migrate" is already a statement of the obvious. Why would one think of emigrating if Singapore is such a fine city?

I would suggest you look at issues from different angles, instead of from Pigs Arse Party's angle. Then maybe you will produce a much more impartial view of the issues.

FireAndHell SG

Let's not be jumpy about detainees being subjected to certain alleged forms of torture in SG to extract information/confessions. No one noes whether it is true or heresay.

US can say this is undemocratic and all the crap. But look at what the US is currently practicing......they are also alleged to have and do practice torture to extract info from detainees.

To make themselves look democratic, they allegedly send detainees to other countries to do the torture. This is a big joke on the part of the US.

You can read the above in the newspapers now and than.

Why do they resort to alleged torture?......to extract information/confession for the sole purpose of safeguarding the US against threats. Now where is the so called "human rights" and "freedom" so aggressively preached by the US. Do tell.

Do you seriously believe you can extract sensitive info/confessions from determind detainees just by pussyfooting with them? By sweet-talking? By friendly pat-on-the-back over hot coffee discussion? The US probably dun believe this crap one bit, but at the same time they wanna show the world they embrace freedom and human rights.

So please dun criticise SG for the alleged ill-treatment/torture. Btw, losers like Fancis Seow and other who fled SG to avoid persecution have to drum up support by alleging SG's ill-treatment/torture, so they would look good and SG gov crap. If they are what they are, they should stand firm and fight it in court, win or lose. Why need to flee and claim persecution?

LazerLordz SG

Let's not get into Republican vs Democrats here.

No one is saying that the US is a perfect place. However, one can preach detention for only 4 - 8 years as policy. Then he or she is out as a consequence of check and balance.

Can we do this here? Will abuses , if any, be revealed in court? America has her Abu Ghraib culprits laid out for world to see, Marines guilty of excessive force and premediated murder charged for homicide and facing life terms .

Hypocrisy comes in different degrees.

While we cannot currently ascertain if Francis Seow is tellin the whole truth, can you at the same time say that the MIW are telling the whole truth as well? We are not in their shoes, so we can only speculate and try to find a middle path.

maurizio13 SG

Originally posted by FireAndHell:
Let's not be jumpy about detainees being subjected to certain [b]alleged forms of torture in SG to extract information/confessions. No one noes whether it is true or heresay.

US can say this is undemocratic and all the crap. But look at what the US is currently practicing......they are also alleged to have and do practice torture to extract info from detainees.

To make themselves look democratic, they allegedly send detainees to other countries to do the torture. This is a big joke on the part of the US.

You can read the above in the newspapers now and than.

Why do they resort to alleged torture?......to extract information/confession for the sole purpose of safeguarding the US against threats. Now where is the so called "human rights" and "freedom" so aggressively preached by the US. Do tell.

Do you seriously believe you can extract sensitive info/confessions from determind detainees just by pussyfooting with them? By sweet-talking? By friendly pat-on-the-back over hot coffee discussion? The US probably dun believe this crap one bit, but at the same time they wanna show the world they embrace freedom and human rights.

So please dun criticise SG for the alleged ill-treatment/torture. Btw, losers like Fancis Seow and other who fled SG to avoid persecution have to drum up support by alleging SG's ill-treatment/torture, so they would look good and SG gov crap. If they are what they are, they should stand firm and fight it in court, win or lose. Why need to flee and claim persecution?[/b]

Well, I like to have chats with different classes of people from society. I have heard abuses by the police most often from gangsters. Other than that, I am sure you have heard a case some time back about this person alleging that he was abused by the police during interrogation (I can't remember the details).

What is the meaning of "democracy"?
A state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.

I think prisoners of war are not accredited as being a part of the American society. You could probably say that USA violated the Geneva Convention regarding the treatment for prisoners of war. I don't think they violated any constitutional democracy.

BillyBong SG

Did it occur to you that neither admitting or rebutting a question is already an admission of potential guilt? Ultimately, an omission of truth is still a lie, whether the question is not answered or half-answered. Wasn't the intrinsic meaning of the US secretary plain enough?

Being the socilitor-general, are you so sure he did not earn sufficient $$$ to manage his own finances? Why do you reject the possibility that he earned every cent through legitimate work? Your counter-claim questioning the source of his personal wealth without providing evidence to support your claim is as good as no claim at all. This is little less than a hollow attempt to debunk his credibility.

It is an open secret that the ISD operates beyond the boundaries of national law. The ISA permits the govt to arrest anyone on the slightest suspicion of dissident activity. Chia Thye Poh surpassed Nelson Mandela as the longest political activist imprisoned without a trial; this fact is not publicized in SG, and to this day, not a single shred of evidence has justified his 32 years of incarceration.

Wong Kan Seng can befuddle the public with arrests attributed to espionage, but it is what he has failed to disclose that is of greater interest.

Does anyone for a second believe that not a single 'dissident' has been arrested under the ISA, this claim from Wong coming at a time when the chorus of anti-govt rants on the internet and terrorism activity are reaching an all time high?