Francis Seow,lawyers,politics& foreign powers

Skibi SG

Originally posted by maurizio13:
You are not thinking with your head again, you only ingest the trash the government feeds you and regurgitate it out undigested.

Ironically there are people that are actually worthy of respect within the PAP. It is clowns like lionnoisy that make everyone want to curse the whole party.

lionnoisy SG

it seem some dunt mind foreign powers playing SG politics.

My new party called Forget Me Not Party(U know Gomez?)

I will call for RMB,Yen,US$,Sterling Poung,RM,.....
support and promises them good return if I
elected in office.Any new members.

2.
lets revisit Seow case.Gov shall show fresh materials here
Show the bank statements.How did he get so much $$?
How did he fail to pay staff CPF and why phone line cut off?
How he left SG?

Point to point tackle his books.

Beyond Suspicion? The Singapore Judiciary, by Francis Seow

prisoner of conscience??
or prisoner of debts?

maurizio13 SG

For S$500,000 you want to sell out Singapore which has a GDP of around S$181 billion. The ministerial salary for 1 year would be around S$2 million. A person who "sells out" Singapore for S$500,000 would not be very bright.

Quincey SG

I think he is also better off @ Harvard la, rather then play politik in Singapore, very hard la. Once kana, wah lau, everything also gone. Dun play with fire la. Just leave and dun care. Best!

saffron60 SG

Middle path? Haha...that's funny, since when are most of the forumers here interested in the middle path?

They only know one thing, that it is cool to be anti-establishment. Mr. Green

LazerLordz SG

Well, we have to start somewhere to balance out the state-run discourse in order to find a middle path eventually. Surely you would have to agree that our national discourse it has been far too lop-sided for too long.

Some of us do try to be objective, but the signs are showing that it's increasingly hard to remain neutral about any policy post-1998, not to mention a seemingly marked refusal to quit ideological politics in our domestic arena by the MIW, and a sense of feeling that they do not measure up anymore these days, and that any one with some intellect can easily point out the spongy policies we see today.

The problem here is that one side believes that criticism without solutions are useless, and the other refuses to let such an elitist mindset take root any further than it already has. Politics is derived from polity, meaning from the populace. It is about the man in the street, you and I. Representation at the individual level means the government of the day has to let go of a mindset that says that only qualified people should be allowed into the arena of ideas.

This is not too good for a growing nation, because we cannot afford to sustain party control and dominance and lose out in the diversity of views that pluralistic politics might bring about.

We all want a robust and strong Singapore, but how we get there, I have to worry sometimes.

reyes SG

So please dun criticise SG for the alleged ill-treatment/torture. Btw, losers like Fancis Seow and other who fled SG to avoid persecution have to drum up support by alleging SG's ill-treatment/torture, so they would look good and SG gov crap. If they are what they are, they should stand firm and fight it in court, win or lose. Why need to flee and claim persecution?

they run because they loose faith in singapore legislation.
" hao Han bu chi yan qian kui"
" liu de qing shan zhai na pa mei chai shao"

do you have faith in singapore legislation? is it still fair? maybe it is as long as it is non PAP related.

reyes SG

Being the socilitor-general, are you so sure he did not earn sufficient $$$ to manage his own finances? Why do you reject the possibility that he earned every cent through legitimate work? Your counter-claim questioning the source of his personal wealth without providing evidence to support your claim is as good as no claim at all. This is little less than a hollow attempt to debunk his credibility.

if you said he being a socilitor general , he should earn millions of dollar over his life why risk taking $500k from USA to play politics in singapore if he know he is playing with fire? does it make much sense? can USA seriously by supporting francis 500k they can buy over singapore? common sense say no.
maybe ppl like "lion-noisy" can only make noise but without substances and common sense.
it time PAP spy sent out more credible ppl out to this forums.

reyes SG

Middle path? Haha...that's funny, since when are most of the forumers here interested in the middle path?

They only know one thing, that it is cool to be anti-establishment.

to be anti-establishment we had to find reason to do so, why would we anti govt if it works and listen to what the mass populous want?. but to pro PAP, life is easy, dont think, follow blindly and accept it.

saffron60 SG

I agree that there should be changes to certain policies and too much interference in people's daily lives can reach to a boiling point. But i just don't agree with outright biasness that comes from either sides when tackling a political issue (that's why i rarely ever comment on any heavy topic, because i believe that it's not going to achieve anything). Of course it is very easy to point out other's mistakes, all you need is a mouth and fingers to type.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that complaining is wrong, my point is that, when people are too biased, they can't have any objective views and somehow, can become detached from reality. They live in what i would call a 'big brother' world, where they get overly paranoid and turn even the most simple thing into something political. That is just my observation.

saffron60 SG

Originally posted by reyes:

[b]Middle path? Haha...that's funny, since when are most of the forumers here interested in the middle path?

They only know one thing, that it is cool to be anti-establishment.

to be anti-establishment we had to find reason to do so, why would we anti govt if it works and listen to what the mass populous want?. but to pro PAP, life is easy, dont think, follow blindly and accept it.[/b]

I understand where you are coming from but there are some people out there who are anti just for the sake of being anti. You are only one of the voices of the mass population, many of those other voices would not even know that this forum even exists. let's not forget those who are among the mass population who voted for PAP.

LazerLordz SG

Let's throw a spanner into the works, and assume that more people are exposed to alternative views over the next 10-20 years, with the ability to make a rational choice based on ALL forms of evidence presented to them.

It would be an interesting study.

saffron60 SG

i don't see the point in thinking about it in terms of an 'ideal' world, we don't live in an ideal world.

My concern is that because there's too much biasness going on in this forum, those who write seem to forget about those who read their writings, they may have scared off those who have alternative views and prevent them from writing what they really think. So, ultimately it results in a skewed outcome. We will never know what those 'silent' people really think because they don't want to get blasted by either side when it comes to politics. I think these 'silent' people represent the majority but those who write their 'brand' of politics only seem to be interested in their own writings and don't have much regard for those who read it (and bear in mind, this is only a forum). So, what will happen in the next election? Anyone can guess.

4getmenot SG

i think they already did Rolling Eyes

maurizio13 SG

I would hardly call the new ones they sent out here credible. They are just slightly better than the lion, they still make the same unsubstantiated claim as the lion. But it seems like they are trying to adopt a more subtle approach right now. Wink

LazerLordz SG

Like Saffron60's point. You can't be one-sided.

Party politics is about one-sidedness. You can't blame the PAP chappies for fronting their views, but if no one wants to engage them, it would be worse won't it?

Dialogue is better than no dialogue. And I find it heartening that the Americans are starting to try and normalise bilateral relations with NK as we speak.

Atobe SG

The fact that we do not live in an 'ideal world' has caused the imbalance of power that rest entirely in the monopolistic hands of this incumbent Ruling Party that has formed the Government over the last 40 over years.

Lazerlordz was merely trying to isolate the entire real non-ideal world - in experimental speculation of where things could have gone IF 'more people are exposed to alternative views over the next 10-20 years, .... so that they have .... 'the ability to make a rational choice base on ALL forms of evidence presented to them'... unlike the present REAL NON-'ideal world' where the people ARE FED WITH ONLY ONE OFFICIAL VIEW.

My concern is that because there's too much biasness going on in this forum, those who write seem to forget about those who read their writings, they may have scared off those who have alternative views and prevent them from writing what they really think. So, ultimately it results in a skewed outcome.

Your concern seems so close in parallel to Oxford Mushroom's line of thought - in his consistent condescending view of Singaporean's inability to discern between good and bad arguments.

This view is similar to that of the Ruling Party aka the Government, who is similarly fearful of Singaporeans being exposed to alternative views, new points of critical thinking instead of being fed the OFFICIAL LINE of thoughts, the fear that their influence is diminished; when the use of FEAR - to grip the population in a MINDLESS and disciplined effort to progress in ONE SINGLE DIRECTION - is no longer effective.

If "those who write seem to forget about those who read their writing" - then what is the purpose of writing at all ?

Has any alternative views frightened anyone from expressing their own views and prevent anyone from writing what they really think ?

It is a fact that the Ruling Party aka the Government has allowed and encouraged the FEAR FACTOR of legal reprisal to persist in the minds of many Singaporeans, so as to prevent them from participating in POLITICS.

This undue pressure has prevent anyone from writing, and silencing anyone - more than the alternative views from those who dare to write aggressively and bravely with the RARE ORIGNALITY and REFRESHINGLY ALTERNATIVE WAY.

If at all, those who are standing on the side-lines, observing the verbal bouts between two sides, are encouraged to participate and take sides - according to their opinions on the points of arguments and hidden facts that have been suppressed, and being exposed to NEW and ORIGINAL THINKING towards the OFFICIAL LINE OF THOUGHT.

When OPINIONS are formed from ONLY ONE SOURCE, the chances of a SKEWED OUTCOME can only be greater.

The SKEWED OUTCOME can happen when skewed arguments persist in a stubborn fashion without responding to the points of arguments raised on one side. Those observing on the side-lines can form their own opinion as to who is the mad fool, who prefer to argue in a consistently skewed manner.

We will never know what those 'silent' people really think because they don't want to get blasted by either side when it comes to politics.

How can you even hope to "know what those 'silent' people really think" - when you will believe that all those who will enter into a debate to write honestly and in a brave new way, are all attempting to silence those who prefer to remain silent. ?

It is obvious that the only one with the capacity to blast anyone can only come from the side that wields the POLITICAL POWER - and it is this FEAR FACTOR that has been purposefully perpetuated by the Ruling Party that has prevented anyone from participating in POLITICS.

I think these 'silent' people represent the majority but those who write their 'brand' of politics only seem to be interested in their own writings and don't have much regard for those who read it (and bear in mind, this is only a forum). So, what will happen in the next election? Anyone can guess.

What drives you to write in this forum - if you believe that "those who write their brand of politics only seem to be interested in their own writing and don't have much regard for those who read it" ?

If you believe that those who write in this forum are 3 year olds, and are not suitable to be exposed to the REALITY of POLITICS in this REAL WORLD, are you not being typically patronising - similar to PAPa.... and OM ?

After 40 over years of monopolistic grip to maintain the status quo, do we need to guess what will happen in the next election ?

With your persistent condescending manner in viewing Singaporean as being incapable to handle ALTERNATIVE OPINIONS, can we expect any healthier change to the existing SKEWED political development in Singapore ?

Atobe SG

With Singapore lacking in physical dimension when compared to Russia, at least the Communist Russian could send their dissidents to the hard life in the cold open space of Siberia.

In Singapore, some opposition members have been sent into the coldness of the Institute of Mental Health, with the incarceration being made politically legal through the Singapore Judicial process.

While those detained under the Internal Security Act have at least the opportunity of being released after being subjected to a supposedly independent Review Board; what about those who have been incarcerated into the Institute of Mental Health ?

Life in Singapore's Political Prison is no different from that of Communist Russia - or even supposedly modern day Communist China.

Is it good-bye time to LHL's 'Inclusive Society', or should it be the perpetuation of a Reclusive Society ?

Good-bye First World....

saffron60 SG

To atobe

The fact that we do not live in an 'ideal world' has caused the imbalance of power that rest entirely in the monopolistic hands of this incumbent Ruling Party that has formed the Government over the last 40 over years.

Lazerlordz was merely trying to isolate the entire real non-ideal world - in experimental speculation of where things could have gone IF 'more people are exposed to alternative views over the next 10-20 years, .... so that they have .... 'the ability to make a rational choice base on ALL forms of evidence presented to them'... unlike the present REAL NON-'ideal world' where the people ARE FED WITH ONLY ONE OFFICIAL VIEW.

You can believe what you want to believe, there's no harm in that. And you can talk about the 'what ifs' until the cows come home, but would it make any difference in the real world? I doubt it, that's why i don't see any point in discussing in it. You have already made known your views about politics in the past and nothing me or anyone here is going to change your mind, so what's the point? I understand what laserlordz was saying, but i'm more of a realist, so i have already accepted the fact that our views on these issues will be rather different.

why must you drag someone else into our discussion, the other person has got nothing to do with it, if you have a score to settle with him, by all means go ahead but it's rather childish to keep dragging an outsider into our discussions. I know i do that to mau**13 sometimes, but his case was different, he kept being so nosy, i ignored his comments several times already but he kept pushing it, so i had to 'set him straight'..haha

You sound like the typical paranoid person i was talking about who lives in a big brother world. You seem to forget that there are those of us who don't care that much about politics, don't care for the gov enough to try to defend them and don't care about the opposition enough to support them. Like i said, i'm not that interested in talking about heavy politics, 'cos there's so much better things to do than to talk about politics. I don't take this forum too seriously, it's safe to say that there are others who don't really take it that seriously either, why should we? haha

If "those who write seem to forget about those who read their writing" - then what is the purpose of writing at all ?

Has any alternative views frightened anyone from expressing their own views and prevent anyone from writing what they really think ?

It is a fact that the Ruling Party aka the Government has allowed and encouraged the FEAR FACTOR of legal reprisal to persist in the minds of many Singaporeans, so as to prevent them from participating in POLITICS.

This undue pressure has prevent anyone from writing, and silencing anyone - more than the alternative views from those who dare to write aggressively and bravely with the RARE ORIGNALITY and REFRESHINGLY ALTERNATIVE WAY.

If at all, those who are standing on the side-lines, observing the verbal bouts between two sides, are encouraged to participate and take sides - according to their opinions on the points of arguments and hidden facts that have been suppressed, and being exposed to NEW and ORIGINAL THINKING towards the OFFICIAL LINE OF THOUGHT.

When OPINIONS are formed from ONLY ONE SOURCE, the chances of a SKEWED OUTCOME can only be greater.

The SKEWED OUTCOME can happen when skewed arguments persist in a stubborn fashion without responding to the points of arguments raised on one side. Those observing on the side-lines can form their own opinion as to who is the mad fool, who prefer to argue in a consistently skewed manner.

The purpose of those writing their 'brand' of politics is to make them feel better about themselves and it's ultimately self-serving. The purpose of those who write and don't take things so seriously, well, it's just to have fun, sometimes poke fun at the ruling party, which i think it's much better than being too serious.

i think that if one is too die-hard in expressing their cause, ultimately their actions will backfire on them, 'cos people will be too scared or find it a waste of time to challenge those who hold very strong views. Those who are pro-pap dare not make themselves known, only a few i've seen here, this forum is skewed too much to the favour of anti-pap. And those anti-pap have created an ideal world for themselves here, oblivious to the fact that there may be some pap supporters reading their views.

''those who are standing on the side-lines, observing the verbal bouts between two sides, are encouraged to participate and take sides?'' That is partly true, they are encouraged to take only one side...haha Someone else had pointed out in a previous discussion that if people truly believe in freedom of speech, then they should allow both sides to talk, not asking for one of them to stop talking in this forum (the person who made this comment was not anti-pap). Even before i came along, someone else had pointed this out already.

Skewed outcome can also happen when those who share the same views outnumber those who share the alternative views and the majority of those who share the same views, try to 'silence' those who have the alternative views. Those who are die-hard anti-pap at the end of the day, are behaving like those pap in the gov whom they criticize.

In this forum, i have seen both sides being blastered for their views, but those who are pro-pap get it a lot more. You guys may win by no of voices in this forum but not by no of 'silent' voices. There are many reasons why people choose to be 'silent' when it comes to political discussions and getting 'blastered' by those die hard anti-pap is one of the reasons. I had someone complain to me about this, so i'm not imagining things, it really is happening in this forum.

What drives me to write? I write for fun i guess, i don't get into those heavy political discussions as i mentioned earlier, cos i think it's a waste of time. I didn't say that those who write in this forum are 3 yr olds, but if you think they are 3 yr olds, so be it. And if you are referring to 'mau**13', yes, i know i was harsh on him, but i think he was being really annoying and he deserved to have a taste of his own medicine.

about the papa poodle thing, i got suspicious, because i saw that the quality of his writing suddenly bear close resemblance to yours, so it gave me a good opportunity to mock the both of you.... Mr. Green

pot calling the kettle black, you are pretty condescending yourself, in fact, it was your arrogant manner that drove me to challenge your views in the first place.

saffron60 SG

It's safe to say that you guys have fallen into the 'PAP' trap when you think that i'm one of them. just like how Iran has fallen into the 'Bush' trap. Mr. Green

I'm very flattered that you guys think that i'm more credible than the lion, as we all know, it doesn't take much to be better than the lion. I guess everyone needs a 'lion' to patronize so that they feel better about themselves at the end of the day, they can sleep more soundly knowing that they have more intellect than a 'sixth former' Mr. Green

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