SG top in foreign reserve per capita

last SG · 2007-02-20T14:00:14+00:00

You are talking about per capita income, not 'per capita', like that, i can also say: ''per capita can also be understood as cars per capita'' ''per capita...

spinsugar SG

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"? Rolling Eyes

^tamago^ SG

i dun feel proud of money which i will never get to own or see in my life. and when we say own, it means it can be redeemed in cash when going to the bank, like ur bank account.

Atobe SG

The greater irony of the present situation is that the "minority in power" managed to hold on to their position through sly schemes to hang on to the reins of power by election gerrymeandering with election rules, allowing only a smaller percentage of the overall population to be actually involved in the voting process.

With total monopolistic control of parliamentary proces, the "minority" will rule over the "majority" of the population with a slew of Bills passed that legitimise all their actions - when even within their own ranks, the conscientious dissenters are forced to vote with Party Policies - the Party Political Whip insisting on party discipline.

Having accumulated an obscene amount of the wealth that were once held by the majority, and with the squeeze so easily implemented by the "minority".

The attitude of the "minority" now resembles a spoilt kid with an obscene habit of returning to squeeze for more and more, and seemingly insensitive to the amount and value of "MONEY".

Some of the past and recent obscenely and irresponsible spending will include the splurge of a quarter million dollars to find a better name for the Marina Bay Area - but ended with "Marina Bay". The much publicize wasteful splurge in Suzhou due to the lack of business acumen, but pushed through with dogmatic stubborness and arrogant superirority. The arrogant dismissal in Parliament to the loss of US$500 Million in Temasek's involvement with MICROPOLIS. Temasek's loss of US$500 Million with its involvement with China Oil debut in the Singapore Stock Exchange. Temasek's and Singapore Airlines involvement and loss of US$900 Million for Virgin stake, and separate purchase of 25 percent stake in Air New Zealand - as a backdoor into the tightly controlled Australian routes, and this was short lived when ANZ subsidiary Ansett Airlines went bust.

How many more unreported losses have drained the Singapore Reserves without the publicity on the scale of Shin Corp - which cost Singapore US$3 Billion to take over a useless shell, and with the prospect of a fine of US$4 Billion for the business infringements of its Thai subsidiary ?

Yet with all the unchallenged debacle managing Singapore's assets, the 'Minority' will pay themselves 200 to 2,000 times the wages of the average pay package of the "Majority" in Singapore.

Many have asked for more transparency, including some from within the ranks of the 'Minority' - yet half-hearted attempts were made; while those on the outside - with the available information in hand - has given a 'poor rating' to the performance of the 'Minority'.

ditzy SG

If I don't get a share of the money, what's the point? Laughing

lionnoisy SG

2.While we shall discuss the lessons of the above,
will it be more fair we also calculate how much PROFITS GIC,
Temasek etc make during the past few decades.

So,you guys think SG shall not invest at all?
Or like some wise men or women here propose,just to invest the
low risks or sure-make -money biz?

Atobe SG

Originally posted by lionnoisy:
2.While we shall discuss the lessons of the above,
will it be more fair we also calculate how much PROFITS GIC,
Temasek etc make during the past few decades.

So,you guys think SG shall not invest at all?
Or like some wise men or women here propose,just to invest the
low risks or sure-make -money biz?

Without transparency and proper independent audit, and with all activities treated as 'STATE SECRET' - is there any use to discuss how much PROFIT GIC, Temasek. etc make during the past few decades ?

With Temasek established in 1974, how much was lost from the initial input, and could the amount lost - (as in the situations given in the preceding posts) - have been avoided ?

MICROPOLIS was avoidable - as even from within its ranks, the 'Minority' was told to quit a profit declining and highly competitive 'hard disk drive' market.

What about the loss of US$3 Billion in Shin Corp deals, which was based on a shadowy arrangement of 100 per cent ownership through proxy companies that are totally against Thai Law - and is the cause of the present weak ground that Temasek's investment is standing on now ?

If Temasek had started with $100, lost $80 in the first decade; and more money is pumped during the second decade to bring its capital back to $200 but losing another $90 and some $30 without performance, and with a questionable 7 per cent return on the amount invested, can this be considered stellar performance ?

Its performance and continued existence seems assured only due to the fact that an unending source of money is made available through the wealth creamed off from a quiet and hard working population.

The anticipated 2% increase in GST will reap in at least S$1 Billion PLUS annually and by itself will replenish the US$3 BILLION Shin Corp lost in less then three years - at current exchange rates.

With the GST in place, the ERP will allow money to flow into the State Treasury at every single minute of every economic activities of Singaporeans that remains awake, purchasing and travelling.

These money harvesting tools are supported further by the COE system, artificially high prices of public housing, artificially high priced of land sales that affect private and commercial developments - all of which will affect the cost of living and the cost of operations to SMEs.

Can this Government understand the value of money, when money is so easily available with the passing of a Bill, and with a population that is politically docile and asleep ?

Without transparency, any discussion can only be based on the few information that is available; but the fact remains true that a boastful high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary.

iveco SG

So what? Does that make us the king of the universe? Rolling Eyes

audiovideo SG

We already lost "US$3 Billion in Shin Corp deals"?

bigmouthjoe SG

The real question that needs a definate answer in this topic is, so how does that help the common man in the streets?

It's like telling everyone your father's friend's cousin's sister-in-law's student is freaking rich...SO?!

bigmouthjoe SG

In Singapore, it pays only when you are a GLC or MNC...

'New startups are being killed off... from what I've heard from my friends, assistance given to SMEs are slow to start with.

One good example is the Local Enterprise Technical Assistance Scheme (LETAS) by EDB that my friend applied for. He applied for it March last year and his application was only approved this year Jan... Should the government bodies be more sincere in helping our local SMEs we should be seeing more entrepenuers sprouting out and blooming, instead we are now witnessing the deaths of many small businesses and many others struggling to survive.

It's sad.

lionnoisy SG

2.you seem contradict.On one hand u suspect GIC ,Temasek lose heavly.
But on another hand,''a boastful high Per Capita income based on National Reserves ''.What is your stand?Have u read the year book or Review
of GIC and Temasek?

3.Pl tell mme if Temasek is losing or making $$ all these years??

Total Shareholder Return (%)
Years.. By Market Value..By Shareholder Funds

1................ 24 ..........................28
2................ 20.......................... 19
3................ 28........................... 18
5 ................10........................... 13
10.............. 6............................. 11
30............. 18............................. 15
32............ 18 ..............................17

He( Mr S. Dhanabalan, Chairman of Temasek),added: Total shareholder return since inception in 1974 remains
a healthy 18% per year by market value,
and 17% per year by shareholder funds,
including an average annual dividend yield
of more than 7% to our shareholder.

---http://www.temasekholdings.com.sg/news_room/press_speeches/TR06%20Media%20Release.pdf

4.Secrecy is part of Economic Defense

Billions or cash or cash convertiables are the main targets of many
out there,on the pretext to promote democracy and freedom in SG.

They will be very happy if we disclose to them how,where,what we
manage assets!

Even sand supply is cut off in order make us say YES.
What happen if they can read us all nake??

5.These are the targets of potential enemy,
who may be near or far away,big or small countries!!

Portfolio value : S$129 billion

---http://www.temasekholdings.com.sg/news_room/press_speeches/TR06%20Media%20Release.pdf

Since our inception, we have grown from managing a few billion dollars, to well above US$100 billion today.

---http://www.gic.com.sg/index.htm

TOTAL
S$290 billion
or $290,000,000,000----many greedy eyes over SG assets!!

Atobe SG

Have you selectively taken my words out of context ?

The high Per Capita income was the product of your boastful post on behalf of the Government.

Are you having difficulty in understanding simple English, perhaps I should underline the part that needs emphasis ?

"the fact remains true that a boastful high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary. "

4. Secrecy is part of Economic Defense

Billions or cash or cash convertiables are the main targets of many
out there,on the pretext to promote democracy and freedom in SG.

They will be very happy if we disclose to them how,where,what we
manage assets!

Even sand supply is cut off in order make us say YES.
What happen if they can read us all nake?? [/b]

There are other nations with similar or even larger size cash values, and with the "brilliance" of our scholars, is there a need for external attacks to our Reserves ?

More likely, the danger is from within - all the scholars employed with the inablity to even attend to issues with due diligence, showing their inexperience and poor business acumen - as in the many losses from all the investments made.

saffron60 SG

Originally posted by Atobe:

''the fact remains true that a boastful high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary. "

National reserves means wildlife parks or nature reserves which are protected by the government. I think you mean monetary reserves.

I know that per capita income is a measure of wealth of a country. I roughly know the functions of foreign exchange reserves but I don't understand how you can link per capita income with foreign exchange reserves or monetary reserves.

I also don't understand how lionnoisy can calculate the per capita of reserves of foreign exchange and gold and whether it is an accepted economic measure of the wealth of the country. Does per capita of reserves of foreign exchange and gold make any sense?

Without a basic understanding of these economic terms and measures, it's quite useless to talk about such a complex economic subject and trying to link it to gov spending.

Better let someone who is more knowledgeable about economics to do the talking, I'm not an expert on economics either, so i can't simply draw theories and conclusions between foreign exchange reserves and gov spending.

Atobe SG

Originally posted by saffron60:
Originally posted by Atobe:

[b]''the fact remains true that a boastful high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary. "

National reserves means wildlife parks or nature reserves which are protected by the government. I think you mean monetary reserves.

I know that per capita income is a measure of wealth of a country. I roughly know the functions of foreign exchange reserves but I don't understand how you can link per capita income with foreign exchange reserves or monetary reserves.

I also don't understand how lionnoisy can calculate the per capita of reserves of foreign exchange and gold and whether it is an accepted economic measure of the wealth of the country. Does per capita of reserves of foreign exchange and gold make any sense?

Without a basic understanding of these economic terms and measures, it's quite useless to talk about such a complex economic subject and trying to link it to gov spending.

Better let someone who is more knowledgeable about economics to do the talking, I'm not an expert on economics either, so i can't simply draw theories and conclusions between foreign exchange reserves and gov spending.
[/b]

What possibly could have made you re-interprete the present discussion of National Reserves in an economic sense in this thread, to be one involving Wild Life Parks ?

If you intend to be entertaining with a display of wit, I doubt if anyone is laughing - considering the absence of any follow-on posts after yours at 04.29a.m.

Since you are unable to grasp basic economic terms in this simple discussion, at least allow others to have their say instead of attempting to prevent lionnoisy from displaying his misplaced pride in Singapore's achievements - with this thread.

You may wish to refresh your memory in economic terms learnt during your days in college by logging on to Googles.

saffron60 SG

Originally posted by Atobe:

What possibly could have made you re-interprete the present discussion of National Reserves in an economic sense in this thread, to be one involving Wild Life Parks ?

If you intend to be entertaining with a display of wit, I doubt if anyone is laughing - considering the absence of any follow-on posts after yours at 04.29a.m.

You are someone who is either in deep deep denial or you are superbly arrogant. You're too arrogant to admit your mistake. What you did was a silly silly mistake, and you kept saying national reserves throughout your posts!!!!! But you are someone who only believes that his facts is correct even though in english, the use of the term ''national reserves' is completely different. i guess it is you against the english language eh? and you so incredibly petty, why do you care what time i do my posts????? I could be working until the wee hours of the morning for all you know.

Since you are unable to grasp basic economic terms in this simple discussion, at least allow others to have their say instead of attempting to prevent lionnoisy from displaying his misplaced pride in Singapore's achievements - with this thread.

You may wish to refresh your memory in economic terms learnt during your days in college by logging on to Googles.
You still haven't answer my question about the link between per capita income with foreign exchange reserves, this diversionary tactic you are using to counter my argument is useless. You don't have the knowledge to answer my question about economics either; don't claim to know something when you clearly do not.

Atobe SG

Originally posted by saffron60:

Original post by Atobe:

What possibly could have made you re-interprete the present discussion of National Reserves in an economic sense in this thread, to be one involving Wild Life Parks ?

If you intend to be entertaining with a display of wit, I doubt if anyone is laughing - considering the absence of any follow-on posts after yours at 04.29a.m.

You are someone who is either in deep deep denial or you are superbly arrogant. You're too arrogant to admit your mistake. What you did was a silly silly mistake, and you kept saying national reserves throughout your posts!!!!! But you are someone who only believes that his facts is correct even though in english, the use of the term ''national reserves' is completely different. i guess it is you against the english language eh? and you so incredibly petty, why do you care what time i do my posts????? I could be working until the wee hours of the morning for all you know. [/b]

Are you experiencing a high from sniffing too much saffron that prevent you from discerning the words 'National Reserves' being discussed in the context of this thread that is dealing with economics and finance ?

Me arrogant? Perhaps you should look at the mirror when these words are written? You could be forgiven for simply being childishly disrespectful towards others with your own misplaced assuredness of your own arrogant position.

Can you appreciate these words 'National Reserves' spoken in different circumstances can mean different meanings - if not used within the context of this thread started by lionnoisy ?

Have you not heard of the National Reserves in the Military ?

With your intelligence and command of English, we can expect you to assume it to be the piece of green real estate that is reserved for military training.

What you do in the wee hours of the morning is 'no skin off my nose' - and your response clearly shows your lack of understanding to simple English stated in my post.

Did I show any interest in the timing of your post at 04.29a.m. ?

Or was I referring to the lack of interest in your silly attempt to be humorous - with no follow-on postings over the entire Thursday ?

Since you are unable to grasp basic economic terms in this simple discussion, at least allow others to have their say instead of attempting to prevent lionnoisy from displaying his misplaced pride in Singapore's achievements - with this thread.

You may wish to refresh your memory in economic terms learnt during your days in college by logging on to Googles.

You still haven't answer my question about the link between per capita income with foreign exchange reserves, this diversionary tactic you are using to counter my argument is useless. You don't have the knowledge to answer my question about economics either; don't claim to know something when you clearly do not. [/b]

It seems that you have not click on the referenced Googles sites ?

Can we blame you for your inability to grasp such terms - even at the basic levels ? No wonder you barged into this thread even as you claim your own shallow depth in understanding economics.

If you will relook at the thread started by lionnoisy, this "Per Capita Income with foreign exchange reserves' was his topic and based on his interpretation of what he has read from the referenced CIA site - Reserves of foreign exchange and gold - that he gave in his opening post.

Was he incorrect ?

lionnoisy SG

Originally posted by Atobe:

It seems that you have not click on the referenced Googles sites ?
.....
If you will relook at the thread started by lionnoisy, this [b]"Per Capita Income with foreign exchange reserves' was his topic and based on his interpretation of what he has read from the referenced CIA site - Reserves of foreign exchange and gold - that he gave in his opening post.

Was he incorrect ?[/b]

2.thanks help me to clarify.

we cant link CIA site.pl post the link here

www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2188rank.html

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2188

Gazelle SG

I am proud that our government has managed to accumilate so much wealth for this tiny country with no natural resources. This will definitely come in handy when the country is in crisis.

foomwee88 SG

Embarassed

Laughing

saffron60 SG

[quote]Originally posted by Atobe:

Can you appreciate these words 'National Reserves' spoken in different circumstances can mean different meanings - if not used within the context of this thread started by lionnoisy ?

Wow, you must really think that you are the smartest person on earth, and that those who are challenging you are lesser beings..it seems to me, you use the term 'national reserves' without even knowing the true meaning of the term...you simply like to use it as and when you feel like it, as though you are the person who invented the term. You seem to use 'national reserves' for all types of meaning except for the actual meaning....how arrogant is that?

First you said:

''high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary.''
In this context, what do you mean? monetary reserves or military reserves? (in english, it doesn't mean either), but since you are so smart you can come up with different meanings of the same term. In your post you went on and on talking about gov losing money in projects, so it's only natural that i assume that you are talking about monetary reserves.

in your next post you said:

''What is the $$ amount that have been made all these years, compared to the amount of Reserves spent to make these $$ ?''

''Comparing country size, Singapore can claim vulnerability by revealing its National Reserves, yet countries of near similar physical or population size find no necessity to keep such matters secret.''
in this context, you seem to change the meaning of the term to ''military reserves''.

''The Singapore Government arrogantly believe in the necessity of secrecy to the extent that it even refuse to inform the Elected President - who has been legislated to look after Singapore's National Reserves.''
military reserves or monetary reserve?

''There are other nations with similar or even larger size cash values, and with the "brilliance" of our scholars, is there a need for external attacks to our Reserves ?''
military reserves or monetary reserve? you are not clear in your own unique usage of that term and end up confusing the readers as well.
If you can't get your head around to use the correct term to explain your ideas and theories, who's going to believe the rubbish you write? Only those gullible ones out there as usual.
lionnoisy may have said:
"Per Capita Income with foreign exchange reserves'

but you in turn said:
''high Per Capita income based on National Reserves is nothing more then self-delusionary.''

until now, you can't explain what that means...tsk..tsk..some people will never learn

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