PAP moves to counter criticism of party, govt in cyberspace

last SG · 2007-02-03T11:48:43+00:00

I think they are most welcome to lurk and read what people thinks of PAP and their policies. But if they are lurking and waiting for opportunities to penali...

maurizio13 SG

If you have the figures. Why don't you tell me what amount is invested in banking outside Singapore? What amount is invested in telecommunication outside Singapore? What amount of profits is attributable to these investments? You need to learn English and basic logic.

Hahaha

Obviously you don't know what is the meaning of Total Price AU$0.13882 per Kwh. So you add GST to it again. Trying to distort things again.

You haven't prove to me either. Why don't you show me which region or investment makes a 26% return on equity? I have shown you Global Crossing and Shin Corp. Go read my thread on Global Crossing. It has losses of up to US$500 million approx. to date.

The bottom line is, whatever they charged into the price of electricity, they still made a return on equity of 26%. You told me it's from other investments abroad. Can you show me the results of those investments quantitatively.

I don't have to show you this. This is not relevant to the discussion. You said charging other cost to HDB to make up the cost of other services. I showed you it's not fair to do that. You accepted it, then now you ask me for solution.

Ludicrous!!

Ermmm. If you still remember, I told you bond calculation is made up of compound interest, you told me NO. So now I have to substantiate your proof? Hahaha.....

Prosecution lawyer: give your accounts of what happened on 22 Feb 2007

Accused: I went over 7-11 in Woodlands and got a can of coke.......

Prosecution lawyer: I dispute that claim, you were at Sentosa at that time

Accused: No, I wasn't

Prosecution lawyer: ok, now prove that you were at 7-11 in Woodlands

You accused someone of a crime, you ask that accused to give evidence to substantiate your reasoning. Makes sense? Ooops..

Forgot that we are in Singapore, the burden of proof is reversed. If I am accused of something, then I have to prove I am innocent. Since you being in the civil service, you are accustomed to such thinking.

Then I have nothing to say on this issue. The government invested US$147 million and within 1-2 years recovered all the investment and made a profit of US$10 million.

You are absolute right!

Hehehe

The Suzhou investment seems like a better form of investment than hedge funds.

One last thing, I did not tell you that bonds is "the ultimate investment product", don't put words in my mouth again. I used it as an example because it's a risk free investment product. Do not conjure up false logic then put it in my mouth.
Laughing

stupidissmart SG

U a wasting my time

I told u the report is there. If u lazy and don't wanna read. Done. I am not spoonfeeding u, especially when u always read wrongly and come out with invalid facts and figures. U can try starting reading from page 8 onwards

http://www.temasekholdings.com.sg/2006review/files/06%20Our%20Investments.pdf

and page 5 onwards

http://www.temasekholdings.com.sg/2006review/files/09%20Our%20Major%20Portfolio%20Investments.pdf

I don't know why u do not like a high return of equity Rolling Eyes u perfer it to lose money ? And u still have not mention a word why can't the rise of singapore power due to its investments overseas.

I have never say singapore investment always made money. But unlike u, I believe overall the investment made money. And u again conveniently forgot tat.

A simple search of singapore is enough, but u lazy to search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Power

SP AusNet - Singapore Power International Pte Ltd, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Singapore Power Limited, owns a 51% interest in SP AusNet. SP AusNet's electricity transmission and distribution networks, along with the gas distribution assets, enable it to deliver a full range of energy-related products and services to industrial and domestic customers in Victoria, Australia.

Power Automation - a joint-venture company set up by Singapore Power with Siemens in July 1995 to offer engineering services in protection systems, substation control and energy management and information systems across Asia Pacific.

Singapore District Cooling - a joint-venture company set up by Singapore Power with Dalkia in September 2000 as a partner to implement the pilot District Cooling project at Marina South New Downtown. District Cooling is a new urban utility service involving the centralised production of chilled water for distribution to commercial buildings for air-conditioning purposes.

SPI Seosan Co-generation and Water Treatment - Singapore Powers investment in South Korea provides electricity, steam and water treatment services to Samsung Total Petrochemicals Co Ltd, one of the largest petrochemical companies in Korea.

EverPower IPP - Singapore Powers investment in Taiwan comprises a 25% stake in Ever Power IPP Company, an independent power producer, which supplies electricity to Taiwan Power Company.

Why is it not relevant to the discussion ? Tis is the fact of reality and u have to answer fot it. And HDB is making a loss if it do not consider using land as a resource and not paying for it. To break even HDB has to pay the land

Ermmm. If you still remember, I told you bond calculation is made up of compound interest, you told me NO. So now I have to substantiate your proof? Hahaha.....

U r the one who claim it is compounded. U made the claim first. Furthermore I show u an example from wiki tat show it is not compounded. Wat have u show ? Nothing

The Suzhou investment seems like a better form of investment than hedge funds

There r some investment loss, and there r some investment gain. Suzhou is not a loss now

maurizio13 SG

I know you don't know how to calculate it, you just know how to cut and paste like OM.

I will do the calculation for the continously compounded because it's the simplest, but I don't think you would understand.

maturity [say] = 99 years
interest [say] = 5%
coupons = 0
face value = $1,000,000

value = $1,000,000 exp [-integral (99, 0) 0.05 dt]
= $1,000,000 exp [-0.05t]|(99,0)
= $1,000,000 e^-(4.95-0)
= $7,083.41

Discount rate: the required (annually compounded) yield or rate of return r.
r is the market interest rate for new bond issues with similar risk ratings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_valuation

Understand? Hehehe.....

stupidissmart SG

I don't know wat is the whole purpose of u pasting the calculation when the whole argument is whether is bond giving compounded interest or not.

http://www.moneyobserver.net/facts_invst03.htm

The idea of the bond goes like tis. U buy a bond, lets say 1,000,000 for 10 years and 5%. Every year, they will give u 5% cash in coupons. So every year u get 50,000. At the end of the 10 year, they give u your coupon as well as your original 1,000,000 back. So altogether u earn 500,000

Corporate bonds are sold in the same way as shares - a company issues a number of bonds equivalent to the total amount of money it wants to borrow. The issuer sells the bond to a group of investment banks which then sell them on to individual investors. Here are a few definitions:

- The issuer is the borrower.

- The principal is the face value of the bond (ie, the capital amount being lent or borrowed).

- The coupon is a fancy name for the amount of interest paid each year as a percentage of the principal.

- The maturity date is when all the capital must be paid back.

- The yield might sound like the same thing as the coupon, but is very different. Because of interest rate changes, market competition and fashion, the capital value of a bond will vary between issue date and maturity. The coupon, however, does not. A 10 per cent coupon on a bond at face value of £100 will produce interest of £10. If the bond falls in value to only £80, the interest paid will still be £10 but the yield (£10 interest as a return on £80 of current value) will now be 12.5 per cent.

- The redemption yield takes account of both the coupon and the potential for capital gain between now and maturity (in the above case another £20). It can become more complicated than this simple example, but is the measure most used by the professionals in assessing value when buying and selling.

Your example give a very strange type of bond, called the zero coupon bond where they give no coupon, or not interest after a period. Tis zero coupon bond means u give 1,000,000 to buy the bond. U get nothing in between and at the time it matures, like 10 years, they give u 1,800,000 for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_coupon_bond

U don't even know wat is bond, and u dare to give such as thing as compounded bond. The whole point of the discussion is r there any compounded interest for bond, and u found none, and u invent out your own compound bond. I can't believe u...

socrates SG

Just stop this argument about bond. It is a totally waste of time.

To SIS, you are right about the nature of the bond, but if the investors use the money received from the couple to reinvest in bond, you can get back compounded interest. However it may also means you will never get back your full capital and interest

To maurizio13, strictly speaking the nature of the bond is not compound interest. Your example of US treasury bond is not giving compounded interest.

maurizio13 SG

When you purchase a bond, it is discounted, the discounting is compound interest. It's a zero coupon bond as I stated.

stupidissmart SG

Zero coupon bonds are bonds which do not pay periodic interest payments, or so-called "coupons". Zero coupon bonds are purchased at a discount from their value at maturity. The holder of a zero coupon bond is entitled to receive a single payment, usually of a specified sum of money at a specified time in the future. Some zero coupon bonds are inflation indexed, so the amount of money that will be paid to the bond holder is calculated to have a set amount of purchasing power rather than a set amount of money, but the majority of zero coupon bonds pay a set amount of money known as the face value of the bond.

In contrast, an investor who has a regular bond receives income from coupon payments, which are usually made semi-annually. The investor also receives the principal or face value of the investment when the bond matures.

Zero coupon bonds may be long or short term investments. Long-term zero coupon maturity dates typically start at ten to fifteen years. The bonds can be held until maturity or sold on secondary bond markets.

Short term zero coupon bond generally have maturities of less than one year and are called bills. The U.S. Treasury bill market is the most active and liquid debt market in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_coupon_bond

The truth is they tell u the final amount u get after a period of time. U know how much u spend, u know how much u gonna get at the end. In the middle is the profit u made. Why will tis be compounded interest ?

U mixed up valuation with wat bond actually is. Valuation tell u how much it worth and how much u should pay for it, but the real physical bond is still without compound interest.

maurizio13 SG

Originally posted by stupidissmart:
[b]Zero coupon bonds are bonds which do not pay periodic interest payments, or so-called "coupons". Zero coupon bonds are purchased at a discount from their value at maturity. The holder of a zero coupon bond is entitled to receive a single payment, usually of a specified sum of money at a specified time in the future. Some zero coupon bonds are inflation indexed, so the amount of money that will be paid to the bond holder is calculated to have a set amount of purchasing power rather than a set amount of money, but the majority of zero coupon bonds pay a set amount of money known as the face value of the bond.

In contrast, an investor who has a regular bond receives income from coupon payments, which are usually made semi-annually. The investor also receives the principal or face value of the investment when the bond matures.

Zero coupon bonds may be long or short term investments. Long-term zero coupon maturity dates typically start at ten to fifteen years. The bonds can be held until maturity or sold on secondary bond markets.

Short term zero coupon bond generally have maturities of less than one year and are called bills. The U.S. Treasury bill market is the most active and liquid debt market in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_coupon_bond

The truth is they tell u the final amount u get after a period of time. U know how much u spend, u know how much u gonna get at the end. In the middle is the profit u made. Why will tis be compounded interest ?
[/b]

Ok. Thanks for the info. Very Happy

I didn't know specified means, they tell you the final amount after a period of time. I suppose face value also means they tell you the final amount after a period of time.

Nevermind. Go find a lecturer in finance to teach you, since you in University, it shouldn't be that difficult. Else you can go over National Library and read up on bond pricing and present value. Good luck.

No point explaining to you. You are not a person who is adept in maths, just take it like you think it is, a bond has no compounded interest in it's valuation.

googoomuck SG

Forgot which thread Ive read which discussed about 84 MPs vs. 50 MPs.
So I just post it here. Can read the report about Blackie in todays New Paper On Sunday.
Its about an Ambassador Of Love called Blackie. Shes been living at a void deck of block 835, Yishun for the past 3 years. Duirng this time, shes a friend to the children and cats living in the neighbourhood, a companion to the elderly and provided solace to those who lost lost their loved ones.
Then a nincompoop alerted the AVA and center for animal welfare and control(CAWC) about Blackie. She almost got impounded. You know what that means. She would have been put to sleep.
Fortunately, one group of residents were determined to save Blackie. They sought the help of their MP.
MP Lee Bee Wah would adopt the dog if worse comes to worst.
S h it ! Is it a problem to let Blackie stay on to continue her good work?
Shame, shame PAP MPs. You see, Blackie is a 4 year old mongrel !
She has managed to do what many PAP MPs would never be able to do: to bring bond and harmony within the community, regardless of race and religion.
Dear PAP MPs, you all are not even as capable as a mongrel! You all have a lot more to learn from a Blackie !
All dogs go to heaven. Long live, Blackie.
Let cancer grow or kidneys fail on PAP MPs!

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