PAP moves to counter criticism of party, govt in cyberspace

last SG · 2007-02-03T11:48:43+00:00

I think they are most welcome to lurk and read what people thinks of PAP and their policies. But if they are lurking and waiting for opportunities to penali...

reyes SG

Actually Minister Lui Tuck Yew might be trying to respond to my several private emails to PM, MM and himself to invite forumers to take part in internal debates on major government policies with the people.

But for some reasons, after PM Lee and Minister Vivian Balakrishnan have invited people with non-conformist views on mainstream or conventional policies, my self-invitation was not accepted. So it is not true that government intends to engage the people in robust debates on policies.

If minister Lui wants to do so sincerely, we should all welcome him to reply to our posts here personally and not use pseudonyms to hide identity.

another very well said post!! i wonder why ppl like yourself are not invited in many TV feedback shows. and all the guest they invited seem like ppl who are pro govt or PAP pet poodle(like Mr yong of NKF). these guest are not engaging the minister hard question enough. we singaporean has enough of the SOP answer from the minister and PM. robert teh, if you wish to start any petition to be invited in the next talk show, i will def. be the one who will sign it either online or personally!!.

robertteh SG

Originally posted by reyes:
[b]Actually Minister Lui Tuck Yew might be trying to respond to my several private emails to PM, MM and himself to invite forumers to take part in internal debates on major government policies with the people.

But for some reasons, after PM Lee and Minister Vivian Balakrishnan have invited people with non-conformist views on mainstream or conventional policies, my self-invitation was not accepted. So it is not true that government intends to engage the people in robust debates on policies.

If minister Lui wants to do so sincerely, we should all welcome him to reply to our posts here personally and not use pseudonyms to hide identity.

another very well said post!! i wonder why ppl like yourself are not invited in many TV feedback shows. and all the guest they invited seem like ppl who are pro govt or PAP pet poodle(like Mr yong of NKF). these guest are not engaging the minister hard question enough. we singaporean has enough of the SOP answer from the minister and PM. robert teh, if you wish to start any petition to be invited in the next talk show, i will def. be the one who will sign it either online or personally!!.
[/b]

I am still keeping my self-invitation (to take part in internal debates of pap on major government policies) open for acceptance. The last time I heard about this self-invitation is that I need to be accepted by the mp (Minister Lui) through a period of pupilage as a pap member. My reply is: as my intention is to offer my service to take part in such debates, so their normal procedures relating to pap members should be waived. There is no change of mind on their part so I am still not admitted to such debate forums. From here we all could conclude that PM Lee is not serious in robust debates with non-conformist activists.

reyes SG

OM ,who with a right frame of mind will accept GST increase.
to help the poor? who will believe that SH&*. the amount would make all poor ppl in singapore get additional $100K++ every year.

the more i read about the NKF saga, i tends to find it similar it to our singapore govt system. on the outside it seem like perfectly run system but on the inside, i begins to seem something fishy inside the can.

frankly whether you are from the PAP "SPY agent" in the forums dont bother me. it motivates use more to post more so that you can work for us and made feedback to RDM LUI TECK YEW.

reservist 1st sergeant REYES from #^%^*&^(*.

charlize SG

I think maybe some of these people get so bored regurgitatiing pro government policies over the net (which ultimately have no effect on the netizens) that they resort to creating clones to post funny perverted threads in Bar.

Maybe.

Just maybe. Laughing

ditzy SG

They are scared, especially when they're doing a piss poor job of what they're suppose to be doing. Laughing

robertteh SG

(Re-posted from youngpap site for information}

Hi Friedquest,

Your suggestion to increase penalty on public officers who engage in wrong doings, as found in the NKF case, can be incorporated in the latest amendments to the penal codes.

It appears that under the proposed amendments, anyone who punches a MP even if he may be extremely provoked by some wrong policies like double-charging by HDB on lands in the sale of public housing or some other injustices could now be jailed up to 20 years.

I would recommend that any MPs, Chairmen, Directors sitting on various audit committee have the potential to commit great crimes affecting thousands as compared with this citizen who lost his cool and punches his MP.

I would recommend that when any of our MPs or public officers sit on various boards like GIC or Temasek when found engaged in deals and contracts which benefitted themselves even through proxies like wives should be liable to be jailed double to 40 years. In China such public officers might be executed by a firing squat.

Lowclassman SG

To balance of what? Balance for them to become richer? fark Mr. Green

SevenEleven SG

I agree that with people like OM, it gives you view of the other side of the story. Often one becomes blind when one is one the "opposition mode" on whatever the government says.

However, much cannot be commented on what they havr been saying or doing much less the crappiest story about helping the poor with the recent moves

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Seems like quite an one-sided affair aimed at one forumer. Rolling Eyes

ditzy SG

Grrrr, if you're not with us, you're against us!!! Mad

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Got such thing? Laughing

LazerLordz SG

You can't blame them because OM stands strongly, many times, too strongly, on one side of the fence.

798 SG

yeah... DIE!!! Mad

LinYu SG

"counter insurgency" - ring a bell?

ndmmxiaomayi SG

While true, there's no need for this issue to go to quite a personal level.

The PAP has already made it their business to track. At least, they have some sense not to rebut every post made to make it seems like they want to control the cyberspace.

That's what I'm seeing as a netizen, hopefully this will stay, as one-sided affairs are never good to start with, with us being the live specimens under the current government.

If we continue this way, that makes us no better than the PAP.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Yes.

robertteh SG

(Reposted from youngpap site0

What case? NKF is NKF... You know politics? Gahmen won't take it as what case... Last time all support and defend and celebrate NKF, Durai salary cheong-ed like bullish bubble for 4cts every dollar to patients... People even talked in this forum how come Malaysia charge so much lower... Now gahmen all quiet. Wait open mouth another groundnut drop out then how?

You cannot think like this. If first batch leaders, Durai probably hanged with what new hanging laws oredi.

I tell you, NKF thing we no talk directly say Gahmen like NKF and all that... Just keep quiet, f**k Durai, f**k those simpletons. People got eyes to see... not everything must say "NKF you know so much problem... eh? Similar to gahmen... ok, got case gahmen must change..."

You think you tell Durai like that back then, he'd change? He maybe even sue you, understand?

You invite Lui for what? He agree with you, he finished. He no agree with you, he also finished. If he nobody member, maybe he say something if righteous enough... now he kena minister, you say he got virtue or not? He got virtue you are wrong, he no virtue you invite him also you wrong...

Robert... u never change abit... Useless one lah... This is the time to idle.

BTW, whether you right or wrong is not my issue here.

Anyway... which virtuous leader will have a bunch of clueless leaders... ...? Robert... Robert... You ever endorse begging robbers not to rob will stop robbers from crime? Or telling angels to go to hell and heaven will shut doors?

If you assume who-and-who no virtue... such asking to offer virtue is like asking for miracle from empty air. Aiyah...

Elfred,

I can understand your frustration for you have expressed them here many times and you want to get out.

I am sure from your experiences in dealing with them, you have seen evern more injustices from the insider perspective.

It is up to you to convince them or not to convince them of the tsunami situation their self-centred policies and doings are leading to taking into account your experiences.

For now, the citizens are now growing up and the internet is the unstoppable medium of their expressions of unhappiness with policies and NKF ways of doing things to suit themselves.

But I am sure with better travel and education they can tell the truths from untruths and they can judge for themselves whether the past hypocrisy of promoting ministers' own self-rewards and the self-centred taxing and cost-recovering system of government is good for them.

Citizens can only express their views as they have no political power to make the change. They will be able however to tell the truths and one day the truths will prevail.

Leaders must consider for themselves whether they can carry on telling half-truths like unpopular policies being bitter medicine or good for the long-term interest or the no-free-lunch excuses should be given all the time to justify more tax and fee increases. The current narrow system of taxing and recovering all costs against citizens have driven up costs to beyond S$1,000.00 per household and job losses by the thousands.

These are the wrongs citizens will need to speak up on and government will have to consider whether these feedbacks are the truths or mischiefs. If these feedbacks are not the truths, they have to debunk them or else they will have to overhaul their present self-serving elitist protectionism and nkf way of doing things which put them on a tight spot now because they have been supported openly by our political leaders and their spouses.

robertteh SG

The Current Constitution has failed to provide for the basic rights of citizens or established the role of government and its component branches.

Without such provisions, we cannot evolve a system of government which will respect the rights of citizens and protect our citizens from being unjustly persecuted by the government leading to instability of the country.

It should define larger aspects of nation building, it is essential to provide appropriate safeguard to prevent abuse and motivate all citizens to participate in social and cultural and all aspects of nationhood.

A forward-looking constitution will motivate citizens to participate in all aspects of nation building.

As it is because of the lack of commitments towards protecting the citizens' rights against abuse, people are treated as digits and number with hardly any respect and all sorts of laws are being passed which increase their hardship and burden.

There are also a great deal of complexities and uncertainties in areas of administration of justice because of lack of such basic guarantee of citizens' rights leading to conflicts and instability.

There should be a proper balance between the need for law and order and fulfilling of citizens' needs for protections against abuse of power against the state and the citizens.

The lack of such provisions has led to over-controls, over-regulations and over-legalistic passing of laws and enforcement resulting in autocracy and stifling of creativity and enterprises of society.

In the long-term interest of the state or the people, the constitution will need to be upgraded to one which provides not only law and order but protections of citizens and ensuring the greatest good for the greatest number.

To begin with we need to approach the constitutional upgrading to cover the following major areas of governments:-

(1) Systematic decentralized institutionalized administration,
(2) Independence of the judiciary and administration of justice,
(3) Upholding the democratic one-man-one-vote election process.
(4) implementation processes to ensure all component branches of government are permitted to exercise their respective roles and funcations with accountability and responsibility so as to uphold citizens' rights, freedoms to participate in nation building from greater social, cultural and economic opportunity without discrimination through class, elitism, creed of any kind.

Specifically the constitution would establish the component branches of government so that each will be able to exercise its role effectively without any domination or influence by the executive and its supervisory civil service in the interest of all citizens.

When such a constitution is established, it will then be possible to rally behind the executive and support all the government policies and decisions as such an executive will be working to safeguard the interests and wellbeing of the people.

The existing constitution is too general leaving the executive too much power to work on its own agenda without accountability and transparency and many policies, appointments of government etc are not working in the interest of the people e.g. "20 major policy errors of governemnt" as posted to the feedback unit.

It is not sufficient for the government to work on conceptual leadership-centric system as it will lead to abuse window dressing, creative accounting and look-good justifications of policies and presentations.

There is a need to recognize people needs and aspirations through the constitution as a compact between the government and the people in the long-term interest and any persistent legalistic wrangling of the current constitution will lead ultimately to instability.

It is essential if the government wants to engage the people in understanding its policies and decisions for the government to revise the inadequacies and shortcomings in the current constitution and upgrade it to one which will motivate the citizens' collective talents, to work together with the government with coordination, knowledge applications and innovation in every field, the key to the people's vibrancy and competitiveness.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

C.S. Lewis said that it's no point going to the other extreme from a mistake, for it's simply being wrong in the opposite direction.

If OM really seeks to be constructive in here, it would help if he actually takes sensible positions on certain matters given many of his exploits seem to be taken to "demolish" the "opposition spirit" with equally ridiculus and laughable positions given a pseudointellectual slant.

If anything one understands the venom coming from some of the unbalanced opposition, but one reacts to OM's post more with disgust if anything else, given how they come across to people and a rather ignorant and arrogrant at the same time.

It seems to me that OM, as opposed to helping to "rectify" the view of moderate people who may be "decieved" here, is actually helping many of these to be the very persons he is trying to "save" them from. In any case his time here must then be judged a rather dismal failure given the reception from even moderate quarters. Once can understand to take the words from an angry, anti-establishment person with a pinch of salt, but unfortunately OM's words are more often then not totally rejected given he tries to pass of many rather curious and funny positions as absolute and closed to debate.

I shall reserve comment on the caning thread, which is another bizzare example of this.

Yes OM, it would be good to actually hear something sensible from you for once... that is if you are really above opposing-the-opposing-for-the-sake-of-opposing-for-the-sake-of-opposing...

Atobe SG

If OM had expressed his views with clear logic and without deriding others, one could perhaps even grudgingly accept his uniquely controversial points of views.

Unfortunately, he prefer to judge others with his PhD qualification, which somehow does not click with his thought process nor his views expressed - all of which bring into question the credibility of his claim to the rolls of PhD, and the value of his credentials.

A PhD spending his time in SgForums to debate with all the non-PhD, and doing it with so much fervor; and with no one giving any two cent worth of recognition to his PhD boast by besting his views with more cogent and sensible thinking - can we believe that a PhD will react by insulting everyone as 'hypocrites' for opposing him and his pet-Government ?

Should OM harbor dreams of being invited to join the next Tea Party at the Istana - by being controversial in SgForums coming to the defense of the Men-in-White - he will need to try much harder.

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