So much for transparency and subsidies

last SG · 2006-11-28T17:49:34+00:00

ST Forum 14 Dec 2006 I REFER to the reply from the Housing Board's Ms Kee Lay Cheng, 'HDB consistently incurs losses selling new flats' (ST, Dec . Ms Kee to...

scabstermooch SG

Wah - Wtf is happening?

fymk SG

There is no perfect system . USA has the best advanced medical technology yet the way they take care of their lower socioeconomic classes are shocking as you can in Hurricane Katrina. Australia has a health for all system yet there are waiting lists and some of their hospitals ( especially rural and regional) are shocking in terms of technology and staff shortages. UK NHS has already broken down so many times that it is not funny.

Let me explain why : Pharmaceutical companies and Medical Technology companies are capitalist corporations . The latest pill or tool comes out - they charge a bomb for it. A patent lasts for 20 years so they put an exorbitant pricing on it. Who are buying these technologies? Most developed nations because their government cannot ignore the cry of the people for it. Take Herceptin (the breast cancer drug) for an example , around 60 k AUD for a treatment regiment . And the Big Pharma exploits the fact that it is the new miracle cure ...so you have women with families trying to sell their houses for it and Big Pharma doesn't care as long as you can pay. They say they have to cost it because of their R&D investments. So what happens - onus is thrown to government ? I don't blame people for turning to all avenues to save their own lives. I would do it too ! I would expect the government to save my miserable ass if there is an expensive cure which I cannot afford but could save my own life .....when I think of all the taxes I pay !

Not only on the Pharma and Tech side , you have people shameless exploiting public systems for their own good as in Granny Dumping cases or FREE DRUGS!

And plus you have a shortage of doctors and nurses world wide now. Why? To be a doctor now , you risk negligence charges so you have to pay professional indemnity fees . In Australia , professional indemnity for general surgeons cost 3 months of their pay in total - higher for the plastic surgeons. If they are getting sued - the cost rises after settlement. They cannot afford to pay so they quit and do lecturing.

In USA , doctors and nurses get sued all the time. Nursing is no glamour job so not many want to do it . Most people think because you are a doctor or a nurse, you should forgo the money to help - then what about their living expenses , professional insurance?

Things are worse for the consultants in private practice- they have equipment purchased from Big Tech Companies and to maintain them is very costly ( because those are diagnostic/treatment tools and you do not want just any ordinary mechanic or electrician to fix or check it) . They have to get insurance for those equipment as well. Then 2 years later, the tech company says WE HAVE THE LATEST and BETTER VERSION PLUS we placed a time limit on how long we can maintain your equipment since it is going to be obselete ... so they have to upgrade which means money. So let's throw in maintenance costs!

For hospitals , they have to get their own biomedical engineers on call all the time and upgraded to maintain so many equipments in good condition. All these machines need to be checked for errors since they are involved in saving human lives.

And let's not even talk about supplies! Paper work very important to prevent court cases - so let's add even MORE paperwork

So unless you want a third world country hospital - you pay to keep hospitals up and running plus continual upgrade and maintenance of their technology .

The only non essentials you can get rid of are the hospital administrators and CEOs who are overpaid IMHO. They are a waste of space. PLUS the overpaid health 1 million dollar a year minister with lifelong pension ... Win already lor ....

scabstermooch SG

Fymk, I do not want to get into a slagging match and I hope you do not take this the wrong way.

You seem to know alot about how a healthcare system works but do you realize that you are diverting attention from the issues that the TS wants to look at, namely, Why medisave doesn't do what it says on the tin, why polyclinics are charging so much more for medicine, and why doctors are able to get away with arbitrarily billing their clilents?

Lowclassman SG

There's no point arguing abt tis topic of subsidys or whatsoever from our farking good govt.

The point here, the victim is only for asking for reasonable insurance coverage for his mother-in-law...anything wrong with it? S$50,000.00 bill and only paid S$1384 from medishield...what a joke!!!

BillyBong SG

From what i gather, it seems that in order to get thru the system, you have to know the system inside and out.

For some, it means you have to suffer the misfortune of enduring the long wait followed by the undignified 'throw-out", only to learn that you need a referral from another medical center to be entertained.

On the other hand, learning from experiences and reading up all the procedural processes from pamphlets and guides, one MIGHT be able to beat the system, assuming their command of the language is astute and they are able to read between the lines.

My friend once remarked to me that juggling multiple loans simultaneously such as housing, car and various financial backpayments is a challenge but can be overcome easily so long as one reads the market well and knows where the 'loopholes' are, seeking out the best credit lines etc (0% interest if possible). Unfortunately, not everybody can comprehend the complexity of legal lingo and permutate the best combination.

Is seeking help supposed to be this difficult?

fymk SG

I know I am detracting from the topic.

However , if they expect to go to gleneagles , they expect to foot the cost instead of complaining about subsidy . Gleneagles is for those who have money to throw.

Medishield was the issue if I am not wrong - as for any private health insurance would cost against the amount least expected to pay and Medishield is costed against 3 parameters - you pay the gap. So if let's say someone goes to B2 class and have to get a cardiac bypass - they pay around (for example) 6k - 1.4k is to ward off the costs. The gap is 4.6k and that is what the person has to pay off themselves . If they chose to go to a private hospital - that costing will have to apply to be fair to all , or else everyone would go and receive private treatment - that way any insurance company would go bust like that. Medisave - you can use it up to a certain limit if there is money in the account.

If they have said oh their mom-in-law went to a restructured hospital and stayed in a subsidised class and yet the bill goes to 50k ....I would been in their direct defence and totally outraged .

As for a doctor who cannot account for his bill - I say that is his wrong.

Bear was talking about why govt cannot improve the health system - that is what I am answering to. Not for the doctor who cannot account for his bill.

oxford mushroom SG

If you cannot afford Shangri-la, you stay in Hotel 81.
If they haven't got the money, why go to Gleneagles? If you want the higher quality of private hospital care, you jolly well pay for it. If all Singaporeans follow their example and use Medishield to fund private hospitalisation, the scheme will collapse in no time.

They asked for it Mr. Green

fymk SG

Private hospital doesn't mean higher quality . You still can get quality in restructured hospitals if you chose to stay in their private classes , like B1,which is cheaper than Gleneagles .

This is scary - I actually agree with you in a way.

dragg SG

whatever is suggested in the cpf is never good enough.

it is just another excuse for them to move and hold on to our money.

dragg SG

do doctors nowadays do what the lawyers do when it comes to billing?

oxford mushroom SG

No, although they should.

There are only general rules about medical charges as published by the Singapore Medical Association for GP consultations and they are not mandatory. In general, market forces dictate how much anyone can charge.

Doctors do not charge if his patient calls up for consultation over the phone or if a complex consultation takes longer than usual, unlike lawyers who charge by the hour. Perhaps doctors should do that as well? I dun think that will work though because competition will be a deterrent. Patients can always go to another GP who charges less.

lotus999 SG

singaporeans are really too lazy to find out the details and always believe that whatever the govt provides is the best!

if ms chew had taken the trouble to find out more medishield, then she won't be surprised today.

coverage provided by medishield is actually quite small, one should consider some private insurance plans. and of course before one signs on the dotted line one should read and verify the fine prints.

fymk SG

I think that is not the issue. The issue is that the lady chose to admit her mother-in-law into a more expensive hospital beyond what they can afford and where consultants charge exorbitantly per visit . They should have actually check what is the maximum amount that is paid out and calculated if they can afford a 50k bill .

I recalled that Mount E will always estimate the amount that is likely to be paid out and ask for a deposit before admission. I also notice that there are certain types of people like to show off to their other relatives that they have the 'money' to put their relatives in private hospitals.

In Australia, I think even my private health insurance only covers a certain amount and I have to pay a gap. I have to find private hospitals which my insurance will cover fully and they do have a list.

dragg SG

that is not the point!!!

even if the lady had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a govt hospital the amount she got from medishield is still 1k odd only.

LinYu SG

IN 'MEDISHIELD paid $1,438 of $50,000 hospital bill' (ST, Nov 2, Ms Chew Kai Hwa asked why MediShield could not pay a larger portion of her mother-in-law's hospital bill at Gleneagles Hospital.
MediShield Basic is meant to help members pay for hospital bills incurred in subsidised Class B2/C wards. As Ms Chew's mother-in-law was covered under the MediShield Basic plan, it would not fully cover the bill for her stay at a private hospital.

For those who want additional protection to cover stays in private wards or hospitals, there are rider products that can be purchased to complement the MediShield Basic plan. These enhanced Medisave-approved insurance plans are offered by five private insurers and a listing of such plans is available on the Ministry of Health website at www.moh.gov.sg.

As there are many medical-insurance plans, it is important, when choosing the type of plans to buy, to take into account the choice of hospital wards, the type of coverage desired and the affordability of premiums.

Karen Tan (Ms)
Director
Corporate Communications
Ministry of Health

fymk SG

You got your answer from the above post - meant for subsidy at B2/C rate. And I think at B2 - bypass should not go past at least 6k or so

oxford mushroom SG

Haha...if they think what the government provides is the best, why did they go to Gleneagles? Serves them right!

oxford mushroom SG

If she had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a public hospital, the amount from medishield would have been a substantial portion of the bill.

Many commercial insurers would not even consider accepting a policy for an elderly person with medical problems, unless you pay through your nose in premiums.

You pay peanuts into a basic insurance scheme and you expect to get tens of thousands back?? Do you expect other Singaporeans to pay the difference?

Wake up, Singaporeans Mr. Green

dragg SG

6k or less at govt hospital and 50k at private hospital.

is that what you mean?

fymk SG

At B2 class in a govt hospital is around at most 6k or less if we are to look at http://www.moh.gov.sg/corp/charges/common/billsize.do?id=17 and add miscellaneous in. My relative was admitted into SGH for a bypass in B1 and it came to 15k or so.

Gleneagles - more expensive because they have only B1 to A1 beds. And taking into account- the consultants/surgeon tend to charge a few hundred dollars each time they visit the patient plus dressing is done usually by them so it is another few hundred dollars .And if there is an emergency , they come out of office hours to check on the patient, another few hundred dollars. Of course you expect to pay heavily for a privately runned hospital with quality of a government hospital private class since you are paying extra for the privilege of getting your personal surgeon to look at you everyday.

So you really have to chose wisely. If the lady has said her mom-in-law's bill was 50k despite staying in a B2 subsidised ward - then I would have been outraged and on her side.

Unfortunately I find it hard to sympathise with her situation since the mom-in-law was admitted to GLENEAGLES and talk about getting more out of medishield . It is not fair to other Singaporeans who go to government hospitals and stay in subsidised wards because it is within their means to pay, and then get a lesser amount from medishield than the other lady. ESPEcIALLY when everyone is paying the same rate.

« Previous Page Next Page »