Not A Word Of Thanks From 'Xenophobic' Man

Gedanken SG

If it is indeed the government's job to educate people, then Xenophobic Man's "4 Million Smiles" behaviour is proof positive that the government has failed at its job of education, so Buxton should be criticising it. It's only logical by your line of reasoning.

dragg SG

a lot of people marry foreigners their age.

sgdiehard SG

reading the exchanges on this thread so far, I am afraid your statement is fair and accurate.

Holding doors opened for ppl behind, pulling chairs at dinning table for ladies, giving up seats on train for elders, saying thank you or even sorry have all the while been gestures of courtesy from western cilivilzation. Countries in the east are learning and improving in varying degree.

I don't see japs holding doors for anybody but wherever I go people bow at me.

I know how the koreans treat their ladies but seats on reserved for elders and pregnant are never occupied by those who are not.

Even in China I see strong emphasis on giving up seats next to the train for the old, the very young, sick, pregnant, and the handicapped, and generally this is observed.

In Taiwan, at least I receive warm welcome whenever I go into any shop or restaurant, whether I buy anything or not.

It is only in HK that I think there are too many people, rushing and have no time for any form of courtesy for me to observe.

Singapore is the worse, not only there is little expression of courtesy, there are so many bloody excuses for discourtesy.

Its about time Singaporeans wake up, if you are not taught manners and courtesy, go home ask your father and mother, and the school teachers, not the government.

Its about time the government wakes up, academic and technical skills only turn our citizens into economic tools, not civilized gentlemen and ladies. Moral and civic lessons are totally absence in schools, and at homes.

If we have bad experience in London, New York, it does not make our bad behaviors at home legitimate. On the contrary, lets not let this happen in our country.

There is no need to argue for or against what Mr. Buxton said, just "Sorry for the bad encounter, Mr. Buxton, hope you meet better Singaporean the next time." Lets hope he does not take long to meet a courteous Singaporean.

SilverPal SG

Am i the only one who realises that the Buxom or what's-his-face is demanding a "thank you" and we are all passing it off as good manners?

When I hold doors open for others, I'm not looking for sex, not looking for recognition, not looking for thanks. All I want is to make someone else's life a little easier.

I've been snubbed before by haughty women when I held doors open for them. Granted that doesn't feel good, but nevertheless a word of thanks is not demanded of them. They can snub me, thank me or lay me. There are not set rules to follow.

Good manners is also not demanding anything off others. At the end of the day, both what's-his-face and Mr xenophobic are not polite.

Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.

Are we to smile and bow and greet everytime we see a caucasian? We are not waiters, not their slaves. The more polite amongst us will extend their courtesy to them, the more ill mannered ones will not. I'm not saying this is good, nor am I endorsing poor manners. All I'm saying is that things like that happen in every country.

Malaysia "truly asia" has a very high crime rate and a police force that doesn't go the extra mile. Thailand "land of a thousand smiles" have people who haven't smiled in years having been beset with problems such as poverty. The "beacon of freedom" USA have got whites against blacks (still) and their pompous and arrogant attitude is quite famous in europe. The "Gentlemen" from UK are known as anal-retentive and "stuffy".

So are we any better or worse than others?

Gedanken SG

The racial issue, apart from that babboon declaring himself xenophobic, is a red herring.

The issue here is the utter and complete lack of manners common to Singaporeans, and the apathy of other Singaporeans to this glaring problem, as reflected in this thread.

Think about it - if it was Lim, or Selvakumar or Osman instead of Buxton, would the substance of the letter been any different? Let's no go barking up the wrong tree here.

And as I've said before, pointing out the faults of others does absolutely nothing to make oneself look better. It's how children try to cover up their own misbehaviour.

Elodan SG

yep. and a good fren married a Texan 4 yrs younger. she's chinese singaporean working in texas at tt time lah. Wink

Gedanken SG

Well said, sg. You've gotten right to the crux of the matter.

SilverPal SG

I am not so concerned about the racial issue. I am more concerned at the demand of a "thank you".

What I was taught in primary school is that when you hold a door open for others, give up your seat for others, you do not expect a thanks. You do not demand a thanks. You do not write a letter of complaint to the local newspaper to demand a thanks.

When others hold doors for you, give up seats to you or generally do something nice for you, you must thank them for it.

But is it really good manners when you demand gratitude back in return for a nice gesture?

If a friend drives down to pick me up in the middle of the night with not a word of complaint, that is nice. I'll thank that friend.

When a taxi driver picks me up and sends me home, after paying him, I thank him.

When a taxi driver bitches and whines about everything under the sun in the middle of the night, do I thank that person for the Hell he put me through?

Before alighting from a bus, do I have to squeeze my way to the front of the bus to thank the bus captain?

Similarly, although the xena-man was very rude (no question there), the other person was just as rude to DEMAND a word of gratitude by going up to him saying loudly to him "YOUR WELCOME" twice.

Sometimes people are not very bright (as seen by the xena-gorilla), sometimes they are downright rude. But does being courtest mean forcing courtesy out of those around us? To the extent of being intolerant?

Once again, I have no quarrel with you that mr xena and most singaporeans are rude. I also have no issue about the 100 plus years of culture many westerners have to develope their social skills and courtesy. But my main and only question is: IS IT GOOD MANNERS TO CHASE UP TO A PERSON AND FORCE THAT PERSON TO THANK YOU FOR DOING SOMETHING NICE?

Don't bring in nationality, race, age, etc.

SilverPal SG

Once again, I do not condone being ungrateful.

If someone does something nice for you, PLEASE FOR GOODNESS SAKE THANK THEM.

Show appreciation for those who toil to make your life easier, such as cleaners, maids, ministers, etc.

I am not condoning being rude nor am I defending mr xena. All I am saying is, IS IT POLITE TO CHASE A PERSON TO DEMAND GRATITUDE FROM THEM.

Gedanken SG

Say what?! You're the one who wrote:

Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.

Are we to smile and bow and greet everytime we see a caucasian? We are not waiters, not their slaves.

You've given up your right to say, "let's not bring up race", methinks.

maxmin SG

Few days ago while in a car park, I saw a couple carrying loads of groceries on both hands walking towards a lift lobby. Anticipating the problem, I opened the lobby door wide open for them. The couple sailed through the doorway, chatting with each other as if I am transparent. Later, I figured out they spoke Japanese. While in the lift, I was apparently disappointed and dont bother to ask them which level. My wife was kind enough to ask; the man replied in Japanese accent English and continued his conversation in Japanese (as if we had interrupted them). No smile, no thanks.

So my question is, does all Japanese behave that way? I dont think so. This Japanese couple was exceptional. Assuming Singaporeans are xenophobic through one experience is unjustifiable.

sourketchup SG

Very well pointed out. So the "xenophobic" man was a little rude in not saying thanks.

But Mr "Helpful" chased after him to demand that! Being told in his face that his opponent is "xenophobic", he writes a letter to the national press and implicates all Singaporeans. Mmmm.....

laurence82 SG

No, the Japanese are usually very polite, unlike Koreans, especially Koreans living in Seoul, who can be quite rude and uncouth.

From my Korean fanatic friend who spent heck of a long time in Korea

Anycall SG

What silverpal siad is exactly what i was talking about. DO you think that all ang mohs behave in the way that you so staunchly expressed is right?

Do you think if you held the doors, helped some one with things they dropped, ALL of them will reply wth a "thank you"? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could live in that world.

If you still think so, then maybe you should go back to where you said you've been and try it out.

Its the same everywhere. There are the good and bad. So this buxton fella met with a bad one. Doesn't mean you go about complaining about it. I don't believe you has never met one Singaporean who held the doors open for him. Or singaporeans who says thank you.

By writing in and making fun of us and the campaign is an over-kill. Like I said, lose that "holier than thou" attitude.

Gedanken SG

What Silverpal said is a separate matter to what you pointed out. You contradicted yourself by first saying it's the government's fault, and then backflipping by saying that the government's "4 million smiles" campaign shouldn't be criticised. If you want to concede and move on to Silverpal's point, that's fine, but why muddy the waters before you're done with the first issue?

Gedanken SG

Did he actually demand that, though? As far as the original article states, he pointed out Xenophobic's lack of manners, and given the truth of that (that you acknowledge), why shouldn't Buxton point out a problem if he sees it? Are we all expected to say that the emperor's clothes look fabulous when it's obvious the bugger's buck naked?

Anycall SG

Yeah, I meant that in the context of still allowing racisim to exist from the countries I've been to and have heard about. THE same countries you said to have been to Smile

As for your second point, I do encourage OUR goverment to promote more singaporeans to be more polite. Do not condemn all because of a few. I hope I have simplified myself enough for you Wink

Gedanken SG

Well and good, but why shouldn't the ineffectiveness of the "4 million smiles" campaign be pointed out through this instance? Is the government's responsibility applicable to racism but not courtesy, especially in light of the fact that they have formalised their concern with the issue through the campaign? Where does that distinction come in?

Mind you, while we don't have racial riots like we did a few decades ago, phrases like "keleng kia" can still be commonly heard on the street, and non-Chinese are limited in who they can sell their HDB apartments to. Do you think Singapore has the race problem licked?

On top of that, one of the points I've already made is that pointing out that someone else is worse doesn't make oneself any better. There are standards of personal bearing that each one of us is responsible for maintaining, and it does not speak well of us if we fail to maintain them, regardless of how anyone else behaves, does it?

I, in turn, hope I have simplified myself enough for you Wink

Anycall SG

Now I 've never said that it applies to racisim but not to courtesy now did I? Embarassed

(Again in point, would you bother being polite and nice to someone whose race you dislike?)

Now we would like to all live in a world that is perfect. Where everyone is decent and polite to everyone else like you. You seem to be the luckiest person on this planet where all the people whom you are associated with and me are all so nice Very Happy

But lets be realistic. There will always be bad seeds. Regardless of what we or the goverment do. All I'm saying is why label everyone else because of the actions of one.

Mr Buxton here is making a comparison in standards from wherever he is from to where he is now. He and you should understand the concept of cultural differences. We have to ways to go yes. But don't forget. Some countries have centuries of a headstart. We only have 41 years. So give it some time Smile

Gedanken SG

Come now, did the cultures that make up Singaporean society only come into existence 41 years ago? Chinese and Indian culture have been around a lot longer than that of the Anlgo-Saxons, haven't they? I suppose many would point out that the mainland Chinese and Indians are also particularly rude these days, but again it comes down to someone else's being worse not making anything better. Look at the cultural developments of these two civilisations from centuries ago, and wouldn't you say that we've had the headstart and squandered it?

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