Firms Struggle To Hire Local Workers!!

last SG · 2006-08-02T00:27:51+00:00

I remember reading in another thread, there is another reason why many locals are unwilling to take up these low paying jobs. No offence but retail jobs that...

foomwee88 SG

Do u think taxi drivers want the taxi fare to go up??? No man! it is the taxi companies which want to suck their blood and make more profit.

FYI, my father in law who had passed away paid S$40 per day 20 years ago for the rental of taxi and now taxi driver has to pay S$90 per day and their income per day is the same as 20 years ago that why they are so frustrated nowaday.

The cost of living in S'pore has gone up at least 3 times but our pay is the same as 20 years ago,do u understand!!!!

I regret to tell U that I am now in USA doing business and i am more goballised than u who is living in an ivory tower and talkg c.

#$%^&* SG

wei....relak la.....oxford is only explaining...and he is right.

By the way, dont u know he is in medical field, and if Im not wrong, from a top overseas uni, so you just made yourself look very stupid with your comment about him in an ivory tower and not 'globalised'.

I see that both sides of the arguments have come to an agreement, or a meeting point, that in a globalised economy some sections of the population will be left behind, namely those who cant keep up to change or retrain or adjust themselves, for example those low-level jobs such as bricklayers, or similar ones like cashiers, sales assistant, and so on.

So.....let's stop at this point, and move the discussion forward.

What can be done to improve, or perhaps, to help smoothen the impact on this segment of population?

#$%^&* SG

Personally, my view,

It is true retraining is important, and perhaps it has helped to some extent for those people who are facing difficulty to keep up, to change their skills and catch up in a globalised economy, and maintain their previous lifestyle standard.

But, I think the problem is the retraining or repositioning is not so perfect, or, how should I say, can't really match all the needs of the economy or help impact all the people to maintain their previous lifestyle standard. For instance, there will always be people who only have the skills to lay bricks, and no matter what they cannot be like Hindu goddess with 10 hands, to compete with Malaysian bricklayers. Lol. We can imagine perhaps some of them are old, or did not have proper education, so whatever the retraining is, they will always end up in the same similar line.

I think this is true if you go above the level abit, to the middle class educated workforce, or even to the very highest educated ones. Like Oxford says radiologists may be out of jobs, and they will need to adjust also, perhaps study a different specialization, and in the meantime they will also suffer because they will take classes again and not earning any money/ incur adjustment costs.

So actually globalization affects every one of us. But I imagine the more educated/ skilled ones have more adaptability than those who can only move sideways in similar lines like bricklaying, cashiers, sales assistants etc. For instance the radiologist can study to become a boob surgeon, then he can maintain his life standard. But the bricklayers etc, cannot smoothen, or absorb, the drop in life standard, the living costs keep rising. In this sense, there will be a wider gap, poor people getting poorer, and rich getting richer.

I think SG gov is aware of this and try to help by giving retraining programs, giving handouts, setting up job-centers etc, but I believe there will always be imperfection, lag, mismatch, and always some section of people left behind and getting poorer.

So while all those programs are good.......I propose a radical and fundamental restructuring to lower the costs of living.....

(to be cont)

foomwee88 SG

R u sure radioligists may be out of job? According to my son who is the MO attached with NUH,they are in demand even those who retired oreli are asked to come back hopistals to do part time work .

As a professional QS ,I dont agree with U that bricklayers who have the necessary skill would be out of job as well, there are many projects in Asia countries. Presently,there are a huge shortage of skilled workers in the construction industries both in Malaysia and s'pore.

In summary, I think the section of ppls are those who hve no specialist skills would be in trouble like general workers,salesman,taxidrivers , cashiers and factory workers whose can easily be replaced by "FTs"

The cost of living in S'pore is 2 high and those who are employed or not employed are having a hard time to make ends meet.

Daily expenes is high in NY but their salary is at least 3 times more than Spore professionals. Our GP makes less than 10k a month wheres the GP here earns at least S$30,000 /month,this is why we hve a plan to migrate to USA after my son had served his bond.

oxford mushroom SG

We no longer need so many diagnostic radiologists as the trend to outsource radiology to India will continue. We have started with plain X-rays but there are plans to outsource CT scans as well in future. As Khaw Boon Wan himself said, radiologists should focus on complex radiological investigations such as radiology-guided biopsies and therapy, which cannot be outsourced to cheaper economies.

Many projects in Asia? Sure, they are paying 10 ringgits a day in Malaysia ...better to go to US for USD36 a day Mr. Green

True, it is indeed the group without specialist skills or whose skills are no longer in demand that are in greater trouble. Taxi companies are keen to employ foreigners to drive taxis...if they managed to push the plan through, more Singaporeans will be out of a job.

GPs in Singapore make less than 10k a month...of course, what do you expect? Even specialists up to the Consultant level earns less than 10k a month in the public sector, unless you are a surgeon or gynaecologist. But if you exepct your son to earn more than 10k as a GP, then his patients will have to pay more for their consultation. Isn't he then aggravating the high costs of living in Singapore?

Salaries are higher in US, it's true...but remember that the professional insurance is also very much higher. One lawsuit and you can lose multi-million US dollars, so much so there are lawyers who specialize at taking doctors to court. If I want to work in the US, I will be a lawyer and live off the doctors. Don't you know there is a common saying in the US, " Be a doctor and support a lawyer".

Sure, emigrate to the US if you like...although it is far more competitive now than it was when I got my USMLE more than 20 years ago. Many of the specialist training jobs in top US medical schools are now taken by... yes, Mainland Chinese Mr. Green

oxford mushroom SG

Given the taxi fare 20 years ago compared to fares now, if a taxi driver today earns as much as your father in law did 20 years ago, this taxi driver must have a penchant for pythons.

foomwee88 SG

My father in law earned S$1500 per month 20 years ago and support the family of five children who all graduated from poly n uni including my wife.

Do u know an average full time taxi driver earned per month now including working on sundays ans public holidays? pls do yr own survey and dont just read the information from the newspaper? It is the same net off fuel and renta chargesl etc

We recruited a QS who is a fresh graduate from NUS and his salary is S$1,700 which is the same as what i earned in 1982when I had graduated from NUS, but the transportation,accomodation and miscell expenses now are 3 times higher as compare now and then.

When the fresh QS sets up a family 5 years later, he willl have a hard time to support his family if he has 2 children and his wife is not working.

foomwee88 SG

R u then agree with me that radiologists and bricklayers will not be out of jobs
Since there is a demand of them who cant be easily replaced???

As a Professional Q.S , I strongly disagree with u that a bricklayer was paid RM10 per day in Malaysia now,this may be 30 yrs ago,I dont know?

The court award may be high in USA but it is all covered by the insurance policy coverage except the deductible.

I heard from my frd Dr Wong and my wife in Spore that there is an article about GP clinic and a NUS medical fee review written by the president of SMA on ST newspaper last week, may be u bother 2 read to know about the cost of living and competition in Spore???

Talking about average S'poreans who earn about S$20k -30k p.a if their son /daughter is now studing M in NUS,do u know the tuition fee per year ???more than 35% of the average salaries earned p.a by Sporean.

Is the 177% tuition fee hike caused by us or the gov???

This is party explain why the local firms struggle to get local talents,they pay peanut hence cant get lion but monkey. but on the other hand,they are in trouble as well,rental and misc expenses are so high and competition is so keen, they hve to make their ends meet to pay for their overhead etc, May I know who cause these rental,transportation and misc expenses to go up and up??? Worst still, Dr Wong told be that they have to increase consultation fee from S$20 to S$25 due to revised HDB?JTC rental and misc price hike.

I am telling u we will not hesitate to leave this beloved country if we cant take it anymore!!! .More than 3% of our professionals had left and migrated from Spore for/to other countries. SG gov are attracting flies to our country who will not create economic and they will bring along a lot of social problems.

oxford mushroom SG

With taxi fares 20 years ago, your father in law must have worked harder than the average cabbies for that income. As forumner and taxi driver Poolman said, taxi drivers now can easily earn 2.5k in Singapore without much effort, more if you work harder. If you are prepared to work harder, you increase your income..that's only to be expected.

Fresh graduates for $1,700...there are far fewer graduates in 1982 than there are now. Employers have greater choice. If a poly graduate can do the same job for 1.3k, why should I employ a graduate for 1.7k? I remember a fresh NUS graduate applying for a lab job with me asking for $2.5k. Sure he had double honours from NUS but he had no working experience. The next candidate I had was a PhD from China who had worked a year with IMCB, he was only asking for 2.3k...who do you think I should employ?

Get real...

oxford mushroom SG

If you upgrade your skills or shift into another field where there is no cheaper competition, you will retain your job. If local bricklayers are willing to accept a lower pay and possess higher productivity than their foreign counterparts, they may hold on to their $65-a-day job. If diagnostic radiologists move into procedure-based radiology, they may retain both their jobs and income. Otherwise, they will have to go to the West if they want to keep their salaries, provided there is a demand for their skills in these places.

To be employed is to be at risk, to be employable is to be secure.

As a Professional Q.S , I strongly disagree with u that a bricklayer was paid RM10 per day in Malaysia now,this may be 30 yrs ago,I dont know?

If you are a QS as you claimn you are, surely you must have heard of the International Cost Engineering Council (ICEC)? The figures are derived from them and the Malaysian figures come from the Institute of Surveyors in Malaysia, 2003...Please read my posts before you comment:

http://www.icoste.org/laborsteel.htm

The court award may be high in USA but it is all covered by the insurance policy coverage except the deductible.

Haha..and do you know how much a gynaecologist or GP pay in professional insurance premiums each year? And do you know about the limits to insurance payouts in negligence cases, depending on the sort of insurance you have?

Btw, lots of foreigners from China in particular are competing for the same jobs in the US. You have to be better than they are, accept a lower pay or you won't stand a chance. Managed care organizations are looking for cheap doctors and the top universities have a plethora of talent to choose from the foreign doctors that have arrived all over the world. The rule is still true that unless you possess superior skills, you will have trouble finding a high-paying job.

Talking about average S'poreans who earn about S$20k -30k p.a if their son /daughter is now studing M in NUS,do u know the tuition fee per year ???more than 35% of the average salaries earned p.a by Sporean.

Is the 177% tuition fee hike caused by us or the gov???

The fees in NUS are far too high, I agree with that. But still there are hundreds of students who apply to come in each year....just as people complain about the high costs of car ownership but still buy BMWs. There are also scholarships (albeit only for a few top students) available that will pay most if not all the fees...

In addition, you do not have to study medicine and you are free to read it in overseas universities, an increasing number of which are recognized.

Presumably you are trying to say that doctors have to charge much more to recoup the costs of their medical education? I have no issue with that...but if the doctor from India can perform just as well as one from NUS and accepts a lower pay, why should hospitals employ local doctors?

May I know who cause these rental,transportation and misc expenses to go up and up??? Worst still, Dr Wong told be that they have to increase consultation fee from S$20 to S$25 due to revised HDB?JTC rental and misc price hike.

Your GP friend Dr Wong makes a business decision to increase his consultation charges whilst other GPs may decide to close shop and work in polyclinics for the government. Some GPs are successful, others are not. As I said, why should GPs earn 10k when some Consultants in government hospitals do not earn as much? As you yourself said, competition is keen among GPs, which means there are GPs who are prepared to charge a lower consultation fee and yet survive the competition. That is good to keep healthcare costs low...It's the survival of the fittest out there..

I am telling u we will not hesitate to leave this beloved country if we cant take it anymore!!! .More than 3% of our professionals had left and migrated from Spore for/to other countries. SG gov are attracting flies to our country who will not create economic and they will bring along a lot of social problems

If they want you and you think you will have a better life there, go! Who's stopping you? Our ancestors from China and India came to Singapore because they felt they could have a better life here. If you feel you are better off in the US, go! Let younger Chinese and Indians take your place and improve their lives and those of their children.[/quote]

googoomuck SG

So much talk about making 20K-30K per month. Globalisation can only mean one thing. The wages of developed countries will have to go downwards in order to remain competitive. Can't expect wages of Indians and Chinese to rise to our level. That will cause their countries to lose the competitive edge. The signs are already showing. Gov't try to make it gradual so that we won't feel the pain.
India and China are already fighting to keep costs down in order to compete for business. Africa will soon join the ranks as cheap foreign talents. What ever talents Singapore has, there are more in China and India, and cheaper too.
Say good bye to high wages. Those who are still earning thousands of dollars per month better live within your means. It's not going to be forever.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

If they are asking about the salaries, I wouldn't be surprised. Some had been jobless for long, and they need a job that has a high enough salary to help them pay the loans.

Although this report is pretty true, you've got to realize that the service industry itself is also very picky. When they advertised in newspapers to call them for more info, the first thing I get is: "Miss, you sound too young and therefore you aren't suitable for the job."

Even if I don't get this reply, the first thing they say when you are there is: "You aren't qualified." And if I'm not qualified, would I even bother applying? Rolling Eyes

Both sides play a part in contributing to this situation.

SilverPal SG

Sadly, one side has no vested interest in the betterment of the situation.

InnoHippo SG

we need jobs that pay PEANUTS! Twisted Evil

Atobe SG

Straits Times, Wednesday, August 9 edition, Home Page H4 had the headline:

Too many cabs, not enough drivers

which spelled out the problems faced by the taxi operators when it was discovered that the number of cabs had shrunk to 22,226 from 22,383 at the end of 2005.

This earth shaking shrinkage of 0.0070142 per cent has led to a call for 'Foreign Talents' to be recruited into the taxi service, using the example of the large number of foreigners employed to drive taxis in the large cities of the Western Countries on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

Has LTA and the Taxi Companies studied the causes for the 'shrinkage' and take remedial actions before calling for FT being recruited ?

The private taxi companies seems to be taking the lead by lowering their daily rental rates and increasing the benefits of their bonus schemes.

Companies avoid cutting rental outright because it is difficult to raise it again without drawing protests.

However, Smart Automobile, with the smallest fleet of 656 cabs, has broken the taboo. Its Toyota Crown now goes for $75 a day and its Skoda Superb for $88 -- about 15 per cent less than what other charge.

The situation of too many cabs and not enough drivers has led on cab company to bleed. SMRT's taxi business sustained two consecutive quarters of losses amounting to $5.3 million -- a rarity in the trade.

To overcome the driver shortage, cab companies propose that rules restricting cabbies to Singaporeans and people 30 years and above be reviewed.

"I think we don't have a choice," said Mr Harjantho. "In many cities, you see foreigners driving cabs."

Will this be the final nail to end the sovereignty of Singapore Labor, which largely has been chained to the NTUC - acting as the proxy to the interest of the POWER OF ONE more than to Singaporean Workers.

foomwee88 SG

Originally posted by Atobe:

Straits Times, Wednesday, August 9 edition, Home Page H4 had the headline:

[b]Too many cabs, not enough drivers

which spelled out the problems faced by the taxi operators when it was discovered that the number of cabs had shrunk to 22,226 from 22,383 at the end of 2005.

This earth shaking shrinkage of 0.0070142 per cent has led to a call for 'Foreign Talents' to be recruited into the taxi service, using the example of the large number of foreigners employed to drive taxis in the large cities of the Western Countries on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

Has LTA and the Taxi Companies studied the causes for the 'shrinkage' and take remedial actions before calling for FT being recruited ?

The private taxi companies seems to be taking the lead by lowering their daily rental rates and increasing the benefits of their bonus schemes.

Will this be the final nail to end the sovereignty of Singapore Labor, which largely has been chained to the NTUC - acting as the proxy to the interest of the POWER OF ONE more than to Singaporean Workers.

[/b]

Can Oxford explain that average taxi driver can easily earn S$2,500 pm without much efforts,why not enough s'porean driver???

Oxford, u r making us laughing the whole 9 that bricklayer makes M$10 i.e S$4.30 per day in Malaysia,pls recruit for my frds who have projects in KL and in urgent need of bricklayers, he says he can pay u M$90 per worker as commision.

Pls dont just recite information from newspapers and Institute w/o checking the facts.

U can send me a pte massage I will tell u my membership no. of SISV and RICS etc. Perhaps, my son is also interested in knowing who u r?? for he is also persuing his master degree next year.

oxford mushroom SG

It was our forumner cab driver Poolman that said earning 2.5k in Singapore is not a problem. You can PM him as to how to do it:

"$2500 ? Where got problem ? Anytime la !
I can't promise u , u can get $4000 , but $2500-$3200 , possible !
U go do a calculation , $2500 divide by 30 days = $83.30 per day only what ?
Meaning $83 plus $130 overheads = $213 !
$213 for me , close two eyes !

Uncle Poolman me drives from 5pm til 2am already nett salary $100 avaragely each night , what's the problem ?

I was a one-man-show , stylo-milo for almost 2 years ? Tired of no life ! Cannot watch midnight football on TV tell me to go evening shift ."
(http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=200826)

Oxford, u r making us laughing the whole 9 that bricklayer makes M$10 i.e S$4.30 per day in Malaysia,pls recruit for my frds who have projects in KL and in urgent need of bricklayers, he says he can pay u M$90 per worker as commision.

The ICEC is a reputable international organization and the figures posted on its sites are derived from member organizations, of which SISV is one. It was the Malaysian Insitution of Surveyors that posted those figures in 2003. If you think you know better than the experts in Malaysia, you can write to them and dispute their data.

(http://www.icoste.org/whatis.htm)

oxford mushroom SG

Originally posted by Atobe:
Will this be the final nail to end the sovereignty of Singapore Labor, which largely has been chained to the NTUC - acting as the proxy to the interest of the POWER OF ONE more than to Singaporean Workers.

Haha..it is the government who has been resisting the calls to allow foreigners to drive taxis. In the same report which you have 'conveniently' left out:

"The Land Transport Authority is cool to the proposal. A spokesman said the locals-only rule is a way to help the less educated and lower-income citizens earn a living. It also protects the commuting public.

'If the vocational licence were issued to non-Singaporeans, it may be difficult to prosecute them for offences should they abscond from Singapore after committing the offence,' she said.

She said unlike bus drivers, many of whom are foreigners, cabbies 'are in closer proximity with passengers'."

The LTA has been looking after the interests of Singapore cabbies and resisting the move towards foreign can drivers...despite the fact that many commuters and taxi companies would welcome it as it would lower costs.

foomwee88 SG

With due respect, I am not in doubt that u had cited the cases from others be it in ICEC and forum,may i know whether u yourself satisfied with the cases b4 u posted THESE on this thread, how can a bricklayer earn M$10 i.e S$0.43 per day,,M$300 or S$ 130 per month to survive in Malaysia whereas waitress have earned about M$1000 pm now in Malaysia!!!

Again, the taxi driver if he can earn S$2,500 w/o effort ,I will ask my son 2 quit his job to join him.

By the way ,did u believe NKF spends at least 30% on their patients? yes, u would say this 2 years ago cause gov said so eventhough the medicine is 30 % higher than market rates,but now,the true prevails. What now???

Pls dont deny the facts just simply recite what u had read or copied from the authorities, analysed them and make sure they are fact b4 u posted them.

Thank U!!! Have a 99!!!
as they reflect n

Wind6 SG

Very nice debate Very Happy

« Previous Page Next Page »