MM Lee owes Singaporeans an apology

last SG · 2006-04-30T14:04:27+00:00

Dear all, Lets give sportsmandom a break. He has his view and we have ours. We should refrain from being like the pap and our ranked 140th media, forcing o...

soul_rage SG

I don't have the exact figures, but the last time I remembered a report indicating that the President of the united states earns much lesser than our PM/SM/MM. In fact, Clinton was really poor during his stint as president (his wife earns much more than him), his financial health got only much better after he retired from politics (giving talks, etc).

The German head of the country (can't spell the actual word) lives in a 1-room flat, and earns if I did not remember wrongly, about 100k plus EUROS PER YEAR, much much lesser than our PM/SM/MM (who earns about SGD 100k plus PER MONTH).

dragg SG

our ministers' salary is a few K a day.

how much does an average worker earns a month?

soul_rage SG

Originally posted by freakass:

For your information, umemployment rate has gone DOWN. Cost of living going up is due to the effect of globalisation. This is an unavoidable situation unless u want Singapore to lag behind the other developed countries. And lastly, I dont understand why people blame low income on the government also. Why do people just blame everything on the government? Singapore is not made up of 100% government companies, so the government does not control your income. There are so many MNCs around. Your income is determined by your personal working ability and qualifications. Do not blame it on the government. You expect the government to feed you?

not 100%, but quite there. Temasek has a hand in almost everything in Singapore
[/b]

dragg SG

feedback?

when do the govt ever listen to us?

nobody wants the opposition to run the country. but having oppositions in the parliament is a must.

dragg SG

some european countries have less graft than we do. the ministers there are definitely not getting 100k a month.

soul_rage SG

I agree. Opposition IS A MUST.
For a democracy, we are a joker. 80+ seats, and only 2 held by opposition.

Without a voice in check, all hell breaks loose! The PAP can happily declare higher income, etc without even bothering about us.

Why? Coz they will say we voted them in. We ENDORSED their high pay. Forget about their crap about creating internal oppositiion within the party. All members of the same family will support their own people.

Finally, I say again, Politics IS NOT a career. I feel many MPs go into politics for all the wrong reasons (extra cash per month, woo hoo!). I see many MPs (including some ministers) sleeping during Parliament. Pay them $11k+ to sleep... hmmz...

The wealth distribution in a kingdom has to be done properly. Pay high to yourself, and pay peanuts to your people, and the risk of rebellion increases (just look at the many dynasties that collapsed coz their rulers live in abundant wealth while their people suffer). Live frugally, and distribute your wealth to your people, and the stability of the country increases. No one can deny PAP's pay is very skewed, so much more than the average singaporean (heck, even their MP allowance $11k+, is much more than the average singaporean).

dragg SG

what makes you think only the youngsters are complaining? are you sure the older generation is very satisfied?

there are always two sides to a coin!!!

dragg SG

nobody can take away what he has done for singapore. and i am sure it is fair to say that this country has repaid him enough too.

anyway there is no way to say that without him singapore wont have anything at all. this statement is an insult to the people who has worked with him during those days. were there no capable people around then?

soul_rage SG

oh ya, and we are the only country with a ridiculous SM and MM roles.
This sounds like a company with 3 CEOs.
Do you have a company that is willing to pay for 3 CEOs to do the same CEO job?

Pls bear in mind, that these people should retire from politics and let the younger take over. I respect MM Lee for bringing Singapore into what it is today, but pls let go when the time is up.

It is likened to Alex Ferguson, whom won the treble for Man U in 1999, then refused to let go and retire in glory, but continue on till today. Now, people don't remember him for the treble, but of his failures after that.

Ang PEng Siong, whom was once the fastest man in the world, refused to retire, and at the end, was forced to retire CRYING coz he could not find any sponsors. Now we only remember Peng Siong for crying, not for the fastest man in the world.

The above are examples of people whom do not let go, and ended up dragging on their lives in frustration.

soul_rage SG

Do not think that we Singaporeans are children of the govt. (ie the govt asks us to do what, we do what)

In fact, in a corporation perspective, since we contribute money to the board of directors to run the company, we are SHAREHOLDERS.

We are shareholders whom are actually more important than the management (coz if the management screws up, we can get new management to take over).

Thus, the govt is doing a service FOR US, coz we PAY them.

gohkatkat SG

quote:Originally posted by freakass:
Sometimes I feel that many Singaporeans are very narrow-minded. As long as the PAP does something which doesnt seem to benefit individuals directly or obviously, they shoot the PAP. These people, which are the majority, do not see the big picture. You have to ask yourself whether the actions taken by the PAP benefit the nation as a whole? Only when there is progress and stability in a nation can the government pay more attention to the individual needs. I feel that they are already trying their best to strike a balance between the two. Opposition parties, on the other hand, try to wind support by promising to do this and that for the individuals, but is it really possible to carry out the promised actions when they really take over? There are many other factors to consider you know? It's not as simple as "My residents need a playground. I'll get it done tomorrow." The opposition parties also tend to argue that the ministers' salaries are way too high, but I feel that this is a must to prevent corruption. If ministers were paid peanuts, no one would want to volunteer to become one and there is bound to be high levels of corruption in the government.

wha.......this statement i agree.............the pap really fullfill its promises to the people regarding alot of things........and during the recent show of all the 4 party members that came up to TV to make a speech.......i was laughing at the way SDP held their speech...............if they really had the power and the will to help the residents........please DO IT more in action......

and again......nothing is really offensive here......don't kill me for my own personal views okay??

dragg SG

you have the 5Cs. so i am right to say that you are assuming everyone is doing as well as you are?

remember this, you are i each carry only 1 vote. if you are doing very well i really see no reason why you will want a change in the current political climate. but there are others who do!!!

soul_rage SG

so legal corruption is better than illegal corruption? Like I said, it is all in the mindset. Many people enter politics for the wrong reasons.
Opposition parties are limited in what they can do coz the PAP uses resources wrongly for themselves when it is the PEOPLE's resources.
How can PAP = govt. Vote for opposition, and we limit your funds to your area? Is this how a gentleman should behave? a first world govt to behave? Respect the views of the PEOPLE!

And no, I won't vote for SDP, coz they are silly people following an equally silly person. I will vote for WP, coz they are very credible this time round, their people handled PAP's personal attacks really appropriately.

When the opposition asked for the PAP MPs to go full-time like they intend to, how did the MPs reply? Oh... being a full-time MP need not necessary be a good thing. This is dodging the question. No one asked you whether its a good thing or not. People ask you whether you are willing to go full-time. Basically, all I can see is, they want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

dragg SG

Originally posted by freakass:
[b]Before you vote for the opposition parties, think about the following...

It is ever so easy for one to crticize someone else's work, but being able to point out the flaws doesn't necessarily mean that one can take over and perform the job better. The opposition parties have brought out many convincing arguments on the loopholes and inefficiency of the PAP's system of government, but if you decide to vote for them just based on their arguments, please consider whether they themselves are up to the job. Will they mess things up instead?

We all know that movie critics have got lots to say about movies, of which some comments are really true and accurate, but does that mean that these critics can be good actors and directors themselves?[/b]

what makes you think the opposition cant do it? have you ever given them a chance?

chiam see tong was given a chance to run potong pasir. voters there continue to vote him in because he can do the job!!!

if you go for an interview you want to be given a chance to try out the job dont you?

based on your belief we singaporeans must vote for PAP forever and ever?

dragg SG

Look at Singapore development over the last 40 years. It is super impressive!

[/b][/quote]

the ministers' pay is the most impressive.

dragg SG

king108 SG

Fellow Will4, you got choice too..quickly apologise to Fellow Alien2..he may considered you infront of me.. Laughing

BillyBong SG

The idea of 5Cs was a sham created by the 'scholarly' and short-sighted. Whatever it stood for, it was eventually warped into a 'status' issue that turned the middle-upper income singaporean society into a materialistic one.

So much that PM LHL had to intervene and unveil another set of '5Cs' which leaned entirely towards ethics and morality. His wish was to moderate an already ugly culture from becoming decadant. A reflection of the ruling party if you will.

Which '5Cs' do you belong to then? From your flippant replies, it hardy qualifies for the 2nd set.

Being gracious that you have made it while others have not doesn't seem to be one of your 'virtues'. At this point, you're probably engaging in another round of self-praise that your hard work earned you your current status.

And just so you know, 'hard work' is no longer viewed as 'value-add'. A hard-worker can still get retrenched, as evident by the massive unemployment rates of 2003-2004. We are only just beginning to dig ourselves out of the hole.

Take a long look in the mirror. Your condescending attitude and unrepentent arrogance are typical hallmarks of the Ruling Party.

It is no wonder you steadfastly stand by them and their actions right or wrong.

BillyBong SG

Originally posted by sportsmandom:
See the reponse from some of the forumers and you see what I mean by political immaturity.....

Naive and immatured responses and waste my time answering to them.....while they are writing, I have gone to sleep...ha ha ha...

Freakass....let them talk until the cows come home and they will still insist they are right in their views and opinions............don't waste your time with them......

Treasure what we have....our government have a proven track record and we should continue to give them our utmost support..... Our founding father has fighted hard and create such a lovely country for us and we should be grateful.........

Never bite the hand that feeds you.....without him, you won't have the time to happily writing comments on this forum......=

Your last line is most amusing.

As with a loyal 'dog', you bite the 'scraps' thrown at you by your master and dare not question why you cannot be eat a 'full meal'. In time your loyalty will be rewarded with still more 'scraps'. Yet you will always remain the 'dog' you deserve.

There is no question that MM Lee and his PAP have made SG what it is today. Yet there are many issues that remain unanswered. And the culture he has developed is one of a babysitter. The continued insistence that only 'MY WAY' works. A system that breeds arrogance and dismissive attitude all round.

When success flows, the Ruling Party will claim all the credit like a conceited board of directors basking in overellaborate glory.

But when a system fails, they blame the peasants and absolve themselves of all fault, even washing their hands of it.

When there was a dearth of creativity and stagnation in the market, they blamed the people for lacking invention and entrepreneurship, but failed to notice that their education system and numerous economic barriers (both of which were created by the govt) diluted the ability to 'think out of the box' and stifled creativity.

Now Tharman Sharmugaratnam is desperately giving the education system a long-overdue RELOOK and OVERHAUL.

When one of their number made a SGD500 million mistake, it was whitewashed as an expensive tuition fee. Such mistakes would surely be punished with immediate dismissal in the private sector and accountability to the shareholders. Not so in this case.

When several of the family members were implicated in a property scandal, it was hush-hushed and watered over. Yet they make a mountain of molehill when it concerns an opposition party member.

This is the govt you support: BLINDLY, FAITHFULLY and UNQUESTIONABLY.

BillyBong SG

So quick to concede? Mr. Green

Given your propensity to jump on the govt bandwagon so easily and so cheaply, i would have imagined a sterner rebuke would have been waiting?

You seem to have fallen into the trap that the Ruling Party can make it while the OPPOSITION cannot. Or that voting the opposition is a MISTAKE.

The Ruling Party will have you believe that the WP or SDA are
'dangerous', that their policies spell ruin for the country. But first of all, are we talking about running a coalition govt? We are merely looking at running a town council. It is obvious that even if the opposition were to win the unlikely margin of just 20 seats in parliament, not one of them will be installed as a minister overseeing national affairs. The Ruling Party will make sure of that.

We are looking at the merits of having an alternative OTHER than the Ruling Party to run a town council. The Ruling Party claim that they can do a better job. But on what basis should the people judge?

MM Lee said in TODAY papers last week, speaking in regard to East coast GRC: Would you prefer to have a Ruling Party MP running your estate, with the backing of the govt? Or would you prefer an non-PAP MP running your estate? How will he be able to solve the flooding problem in Bedok?

My first question would be: why is there even flooding in bedok? Is it because Prof S Jayakumar's team has not done their job then? Mr. Green

Even the 'invincible' can prove fallible. Cool

With the quality of opposition available in the WP at least, are you so quick to dismiss them as 'not up to mark'?

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