Singapore coffee shop forced to remove anti-Danish sign

last SG · 2006-02-09T02:27:54+00:00

Glad to see that your point of view is objective and sensible. If only everyone was like that. The point I'm trying to make is that according to you stand,...

Libertarian SG

This sounds like thought crime to me. Just because the does not welcomes danish onto his property, the police ASSUME that he is going to attack danish people.

sinicker SG

^people around me said, "serves america right" and "now den they get their retribution" my mom, my dad.. after 9/11.

dracky SG

Religious extremism is a clear and present threat to Singapore, ever since JI and related Islamic extremists infiltrated Southeast Asia. I totally support Police coming down hard on this Arab Street coffeeshop.

Over the long term, the effective way to avoid religious extremism is to undermine religion and promote secularism. Religious leaders right now have undue influence over believers who can't think straight for themselves.

casefan SG

Even if the shop is his property, he is bound by the law and morality. So, even if he turns it into a bomb making factory, it is alright since it is his shop and he should be allowed to do anything with it? By putting up that anti-Danes sign, he is guilty of racism.

Libertarian SG

Yes he can make bombs on his property. There is nothing wrong with it. The only problem will be if the bomb explodes and injures someone then he has initiated force and shall be punished. Yes he is racist but did he actually initiate force against anybody? If not, he shall not be punished because if he is being punished then the government will be the ones that initiate force against him in the first place.

Salman SG

Originally posted by Libertarian:

Yes he can make bombs on his property. There is nothing wrong with it. The only problem will be [b]if the bomb explodes and injures someone then he has initiated force and shall be punished. Yes he is racist but did he actually initiate force against anybody? If not, he shall not be punished because if he is being punished then the government will be the ones that initiate force against him in the first place. [/b]

He broke his pledge. Its says regardless of race language or religion remember?
Racism is also immoral to say the least.

I'm a liberal myself, but I don't think racism is a hallmark of liberalism. Liberals can't be racist. We believe in multiculturalism and inclusionsims. Having a no Danish sign isn't cool man. You dig bro?

Libertarian SG

Did you say "promote"? Promote should be a non coercive thing. And "promote" should not be infringing on his right to life and property

Libertarian SG

Firstly i'm not a liberal. I'm a libertarian. I agree that racism is immoral but punishing a man that has not initiated force on others is even more immoral. He did not physically hurt anybody right? then why he needs to be phycially punished?

Salman SG

He wasn’t punished. He was just told to take that discriminatory sign away.

Libertarian SG

what if he refuses to remove the sign or after he removed the sign and still refuse to serve danish customers? will he be punished. That is his business and he should be able to run his business any way he want unless he initiated force or hurt other people. He can even says that he will not sell coffee to the president even the president pays him $100 for a cup of coffee. At the most only he will lugi right??

laurence82 SG

discrimination

employers who advertise job vacancies, stating 'chinese only' or 'disabled need not apply' or 'for men only' better have good reasons why when MOM come knocking on the door

same principle apply

countdracula SG

what if he brands some groups or even libertarians and bars them from his place?

what he did is divisive and potential destructive...no difference then in the 60s when bigots have signs that says 'colored not welcomed'.....

Salman SG

I agree. Such discrimination by Samar can never be tolerated. We can never have liberty with such racism.

Was the owner of Samar punished? Nope.
Would he be punished had he not taken the sign down? Yep, but not physically.
But he, he was never punished.

SilverPal SG

So the danish can publish any type of comics on their newspaper right? After all, the comics did not initiate force on others nor did the cartoonist physically hurt anybody right? Why do muslims around the world want them dead?

Your reasoning is so filmsy.

SilverPal SG

The danish newspaper should be able to publish anything they like, that's their newspaper, its their business, they should be allowed to put any dribble they like, the most they lugi right?

lwflee SG

Protectionism IS discrimination. The distinction, if there is any, is at best tenuous.

Discrimination: Treating people differently because of some characteristic of theirs. Now discrimination can be positive or negative, but it is still discrimination. In any case, whether or not a particular discrimination is positive or negative depends on your notions of morality. Beware not to assume a common thread of morality though.

lwflee SG

I understand discrimination. Do you? And it definitely is what nationhood is built upon. I have given you many examples, you have given none.

Example of discrimination:

Singaporeans pay $200 in fees, foreigners 400. This is discrimination on grounds of nationality, a very common phenomenon.

Blacks are not allowed in this Pub. This is discrimination on grounds of race. Commonly thought be many to be immoral and wrong (I agree). Also illegal in many countries.

Persons over the age of 50 are to be compulsorarily (sp?) retrenched, regardless. This is discrimination on grounds of age. I also think this is wrong.

Only persons with a degree in Mechatronics will be considered for this post. This is again discrimination, but on grounds of ability. I think there is nothing wrong with this and no doubt you will agree with me.

So you see. Disccrimination is not necc a derogatory term, though I agree that it can be a 'negative' term.

lwflee SG

My take on the issue is simple:

He is a private citizen running his private business. If he does not want to serve danes because he does not approve of the danish government, who are we to tell him that he is wrong? He is not really harming anyone is he?

That does not mean I agree with what he is doing. Personally I think what he has done is repugnant and frankly stupid. I would boycott his shop and encourage my friends to do the same. Yet, just because I find it repugnant does not mean I want it to be banned. I believe that is just one of the vissicitudes of life that ordinary people must bear. As long as no one is harmed and no property is destroyed, I will grit my teeth (or rant) and get on with my life.

sbst275 SG

I suggest to many who insist that we are a freedom society to think again, do the old man at the coffeeshop understand what you say abt democracy? He is only bothered his bread and butter issue

casefan SG

What kind of logic is that? If you are caught making bombs anywhere, be it on your property or in mandai forest, you are going to spend a lot of time in jail. There is intend to cause harm/death by making/possessing them. What other reason can a person have?

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