The issue of Ex-SAF hotshots sitting pretty in GLCs

last SG · 2006-01-05T08:47:20+00:00

How can they not be smart and hardworking and be a schorlar in the first place? Do you think they get promoted solely on their degrees?

robertteh SG

It is very logical to leave scholars and talents to prove themselves rather than try to nanny them.

If there are capable people, whether scholars or non-scholars, sooner or later they will prove to the market in building up businesses or upgraded industries but now we are pushing career paths for them through a closed door system.

If we still want to push for them because some people believe that they have the ability, let us not give them the silver plater or accelerated career path, let us look at their performance and results.

Have we indeed through these scholars turned around the moribund economy, upgraded the EDB or JTC into more entrepreneurial outfits that have created many new technology start-ups and jobs.

If we do not show the above-stated type of results, then let all the scholars go and join the various private sector companies without all the hand-picking or hand-holding.

We should not deprive opportunities of really good action-oriented men and we may have many of these men who have built empires and large businesses without all the degrees and scholarships.

These men should be identified and recruited to head various organization (at lower pays as well as these people do not expect very high salaries).

anonymouscoward SG

Dear Charlize,

Either I've not explain my points clearly or you simply choose to ignore/ not understand hiring concept. We must therefore, agree to disagree.

In my role, I've been ask to conduct hiring interviews many a times and the fact is that companies only will hire if

1) You have the right experience and the best fit amongst all and,
2) You meet the hiring budget

Someone may come along with excellent credentials, but with the wrong experience at the wrong field and if they simply cost too much to hire, their applications will be thrown out.

Scholars may be sharp and smart. They may have accomplish impossible task in management, roll out successful project, operate commands with thousands of subordiantes in the military but these are irrelevant to most industries.

I strongly believe that given the opportunity, they would have no problems proving their worth but who would give them that opportunity?

Some, may find jobs related to the defense/government industry on their own but most will have a hard time doing so. As such, it is necessary for the government to step in. Afterall, they've but given about 20-30 years of their lives serving the government.

I would be appalled if the government doesn't at least have the decency to do so.

dragg SG

it works differenctly for people up there and the commoners.

different rules apply.

charlize SG

I am also tired of replying that you are contradicting yourself.

I leave the rest to debate with you. Laughing

dragg SG

obviously it is one way the MIW attracts all the 'talents'. the guaranteee of cushy jobs after 'retirement' is hard to resist.

BillyBong SG

If offering a job after 45 to a select few of ex-SAF people who have 'proven themselves' capable, isn't that an already exclusive and autocratic move? Isn't it a classic case of the 'aristocrats' helping 'aristocrats'? By your definition, doesn't one HAVE TO BE a scholar before he/she qualifies? The only difference is that instead of direct entry, these cream of the creams have to be vetted a level further?

Is that just reward or further cronyism?

Where is it implied that if the govt stops pampering these 45 somethings, people won't flock to the ranks of the SAF scholarship? Isn't prestige and the 'honour' of serving one's nation the actual draw card? Unless of course the new generation of singaporeans have become much more money-minded and materialistic then true patriots.

Don't these candidates still queue up for acceptance interviews ? Is there not an annual huge pool of talent which the govt continues to cuddle and 'psycho' to join govt service?

To your last point, what is the purpose of a free economy if scholars EXPECT to be GIVEN high paying jobs after they retire? What kind of attitude are they sending out if that is truly their position? What example is this to the average singaporean?

Is that the way to prove yourself the 'elite of elites'? By expecting red-carpet treatment upon 'retirement' and riding on the coat-tails of your past exploits to garner a plump job in an exquisite office?

SilverPal SG

Hi, perhaps we can look at this issue from an alternative point of view.

When these military hotshots are given cushy jobs in a totally irrelavent industry, with an incredible amount of useless military experience, do they do good work and justify their pay? Do they make things better or outperform the non scholars whose advancement they recently deprived?

If they can justify their pay and position with examplary performance, then the coporation benefits from their "scholar" capability. But if they are poor performers and merely warm seats and produce oxygen till their second retirement, then we have to ask ourselves why do companies want to waste money on them.

Remember, companies are profit driven. Money is the bottomline.

LazerLordz SG

That's if you are talking about MNCs and firms not controlled indirectly by GIC.

GLCs are deemed to have some national interest.

dragg SG

a lot of people at the top are overrated and overpaid.

anonymouscoward SG

Originally posted by BillyBong:

If offering a job after 45 to a select few of ex-SAF people who have 'proven themselves' capable, isn't that an already exclusive and autocratic move? Isn't it a classic case of the 'aristocrats' helping 'aristocrats'? By your definition, doesn't one [b]HAVE TO BE a scholar before he/she qualifies? The only difference is that instead of direct entry, these cream of the creams have to be vetted a level further?

Is that just reward or further cronyism?

Where is it implied that if the govt stops pampering these 45 somethings, people won't flock to the ranks of the SAF scholarship? Isn't prestige and the 'honour' of serving one's nation the actual draw card? Unless of course the new generation of singaporeans have become much more money-minded and materialistic then true patriots.

Don't these candidates still queue up for acceptance interviews ? Is there not an annual huge pool of talent which the govt continues to cuddle and 'psycho' to join govt service?

To your last point, what is the purpose of a free economy if scholars EXPECT to be GIVEN high paying jobs after they retire? What kind of attitude are they sending out if that is truly their position? What example is this to the average singaporean?

Is that the way to prove yourself the 'elite of elites'? By expecting red-carpet treatment upon 'retirement' and riding on the coat-tails of your past exploits to garner a plump job in an exquisite office?
[/b]

You're talking about an idealistic world where people work for honor. That doesn't exist. People work for money. I do. And I'm not ashame to admit it. Do you?

Why are scholarships coverted by students? Because it is a guaranteed path to success. If that path is set to end at 45, even the average students would not take up the scholarship. These scholars would be smart enough to know that.

This has nothing to with being cronies. It about giving well deserving scholars an opportunity after their manadatory 45 years retirement. Otherwise, the other options would be to increase or do away with the 45 years retirement age but that would introduce a whole new set of problems wouldn't they?

Again, this has nothing to do with free economy. You are saying that it is unfair for the average Singaporean. True. But what has the average Singaporean done for that our government needs to ensure their continued employement after 45??

Also, no one expects to be given high paying jobs after their retirement. Only the selected few will be given the opportunity. There are incidents that some SAF Overseas Merit scholars are condemned and they didn't even reach LTC rank because they fail their tasks.

anonymouscoward SG

Good point. Also a good pointed noted by LazerLord about this being GLC and not MNCs.

The other consideration is that the government is giving these scholars an opportunity. Not a guaranteed position. As I've mentioned, there have been many Presidential scholars/ Service chiefs who has been given the boot due to poor performance in the private sector.

dracky SG

Some people seem to take issue with the fact that the ex-scholars have no relevant experience in running GLCs. This may be the case but I believe that there are some general skills that can carry over from the public to private sector eg. general intelligence, people management, motivating staff. You don't always need relevant experience to lead a GLC although you have to pick up the key issues quickly and have capable staff.

For example, if LKY were to run SIA, he would no doubt be able to lead it very capably, even if he has few experience in the aviation sector.

For me, the real issue is whether ex-scholars who underperform continue to lead GLCs. Can anybody raise an example? When a GLC is managed poorly, they get knocked by private companies in the market. If the ex-Chief of Air Force can't perform, why would SIA want to keep him. Afterall, Chairman SIA has to answer to the Government as well. Sure, the ex-scholar has more openings for him in GLC vis-a-vis a peer from the private sector. However, it is performance in the long term that determines success, whether in a GLC or not.

oxford mushroom SG

Look, if you don’t make them CEOs of big government linked companies and give them something more than peanuts, they will become corrupt and sell military secrets to other nations. Remember our civil servants and generals are not saints…we have to be realistic. These people will will sell their mothers if necessary….

dakkon_blackblade SG

This topic makes me wonder: what do other countries do with their retired generals?? Where did Gen Norman Schwarzkopf go? What happened to Montgomery? Perhaps in the US they went into politics or business or the public-speaking circuit or academia, while in the UK they just retired to the countryside and become minor tourist attractions.

But the point is, retired military men still need something to do, especially if they retired young, e.g. at 45. Or else they'll do bad things like turn to drink or gambling or sell military secrets, plot coups, out of sheer boredom. Singapore's way of dealing with them is as good as any I can think of. As for performance, I don't expect stellar ratings, but as long as they don't make any spectacular mistakes, I can forgive them for the minor failings. But to safeguard against catastrophe, I suggest that having capable subordinates would do. After all, didn't these generals and colonels rely on their subordinates to do much of their work in the SAF anyway?

vito_corleone SG

eisenhower went into politics eventually becoming president. others like macarthur and gang simply faded into oblivion. Laughing

RaTtY81 SG

u cant expect those a bg to drive a taxi for living isit? Laughing

BillyBong SG

Granted nothing is fair in the world. Fortunately, there are always people who try to make it a fairer place.

There is a distinction between honour and decency. We have to be clear in each context. The honour of receiving the scholarship coupled with a roadmap to the top (or success) comes with the scholar's own effort and ability, and not everyone makes it all the way as you have pointed out.

But you should also realise that there are limited positions at the pinnacle, positions where the other predecessors are nesting. The whole idea of the govt scholarship system is that each scholar shall serve their 'tour of duty', in essence, each position is tenable for a pre-determined time; after which, that position must be relinquished to a qualified young blood.

The service expectancy of each chief vocation officer is a prime example.

So the early retirement age of 45 is already pre-planned by the govt. It is up to the govt to determine whether to shift the date. Their main consideration was the need to 'fast track' budding talents within the SAF to avoid dissent, which in turn requires a short service span within each appointment.

With pay adjustments with every promotion and appointment (you get increments for both), these 'hotshots' are already very well taken care of. If they have planned their post SAF careers right (they ARE scholars aren't they?), they should be financially sound.

Can the same be said for the average singaporan who may struggle to secure a decent-paying job come retirement? Should we take PM Lee HL's audacious claim that "it is not the job of the govt to provide employment to the people" at face value? Is that how he expects to secure votes for the upcoming elections?

It has become a question of decency when unqualified 'hotshots' cross trade into a different industry, devoid of experience or relevant skills and thereby denying other more qualified talents that office. Are you aware of the internal animosity created due to such a high-handed act?

Doesn't the average singaporean contribute to the gross GDP of Singapore's economy? Doesn't the average singaporean pay taxes? Or are you suggesting that only scholars and employees of govt stat boards have 'done for that our government'

These 'scholars' CHOSE to sign on, CHOSE to receive SAF scholarships. For better or worst, they SELECTED their military careers of their own free will. They should have no illusions about life after that.

BillyBong SG

Would he run it 'capably' or in his self-styled draconian way?

With SIA's attrition rate already legendary, would an LKY-led SIA create still more extraordinary manpower turnovers?

Would SIA employees harbour the thought of having a strong union to fight for their rights or a subdued and passive team solely created to maintain the facade? The recent fiasco of Alpa-S being hit by the IRON FIST would be a disturbing example of how he runs things.

My way or the highway.

BillyBong SG

Sell our secrets to the highest bidders? If that is the dark side of the govt not providing a plump assignment upon retirement, then the moral standards of scholars have really fallen indeed.

oxford mushroom SG

Err...dun think moral standards is something that is being considered when they award scholarships

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