Someone please give me good reasons to hate Chee Soon Juan

last SG · 2005-12-08T12:55:54+00:00

quote from Nelstar: I don't sympathize with his cause and I don't connect with his sentiments when he goes namecalling, shouting, losing his temper etc. I s...

ceecookie SG

why are u hating chee cheong fun? Rolling Eyes

LazerLordz SG

Apologies if needed, but your article had a near-criminal impression of AI...

Chia Ti Lik SG

Originally posted by soloasylum:

[b]very good point.
be it political stage or just making a plain statement, you need reasons, facts or some noteable examples. nobody can simply just say you are smoker without some facts or examples to back it up..

anyway, my impression of CSJ has never been good. till today he is a highly educated gangster behavior politician or dr mad dog to me. actually i expect a higher standard from him since he is a doctorate. [/b]

Good point. wholly agreed. Smile
When making a statement in later part of a post, dun forget what you just said earlier. Smile

Chia Ti Lik SG

Point 1 - Correction - there are many more crooks in this world.

Point 2 - you equate liberalism = crookism? Shocked

SBS1908B SG

He should stop harping on abstract issues.

Rexdriver SG

There are many politicians who are crooks too.

sgdiehard SG

My original para goes like this "I sure hope our politicians, from whichever party, have the conviction to represent the ppl, elected or not. Those who join politics for their own ideology, represent AI and lambaste Singapore in the name of opposition will not gain any respect, let alone votes. "

I was refering to politicians who are more interested in speaking for foreign orgn than for the ppl of singapore. In the recent incident, CSJ spoke more for AI than for the interest of the ppl of singapore. Nothing is said about criminals. don't be confused.

depressed SG

quote from sgdiehard:

First of all, whats wrong with speaking for the foreign organisations? is AI a criminal organisation? What about UN and the ICJ? then should Singapore cancel all agreements with foreign organisations which includes the UN as well? Secondly what if his speaking up for his beliefs and not the foreign organsations? do you know him that well? just because AI is against the death penalty and his beliefs are also against it doesn't mean he in in cahoots with the AI.

While I don't believe loyalty to singapore that kind of bullshit, i believe he should speak up for the interest of the country, not the ppl. Is it good for singapore to offend australia given singapore's current economy state? lets take nguyen for example, there are a lot of singaporeans that are also against the execution of nguyen, or rather the mandatory death penalty. So what do you define as the interest of the ppl? Is this good for the country? having nations like australia boycotting singapore is what the ppl of singapore wants? have more MNCs from australia refusing to set up business in sg becos of nguyen is also the interest of the ppl? putfile is but one minor example. To put it bluntly, singaporeans are just a pathetic lot that can't be bothered with political interests as long as their bread and butter issue remains solved. Is Chee Soon Juan lambasting Singapore or the Singapore government? what has singaporeans done when the government suggests building two casinoes? doesn't excessive gambling ruin lives as well as drugs?

Chia Ti Lik SG

First you confuse representation with mere speech by equating speech with representation and vice versa.

The differences between speech and representation go beyond mere spelling.
There is a reason why they call GRCs Group Representation Constituencies you know Smile

You expect non-incumbents to speak on your behalf when you have not elected them.
Do you expect the incumbent MPs to speak for you when they are elected?
Would you then vote for your incumbent if he fails to speak for you?

You now seem to say that speaking for the people is the only job of an MP. Are you now lambasting PAP for going off track to load town council management on their MPs? Smile
Certainly you understand that town council management in all wards starts with the day the candidate is elected and certainly not before?

If you feel many parties are bad then tell your bosses to legislate for only two parties to be legalised within the system lah. If PAP is one, then hopefully WP is the other. Smile

Resorting to comparisons with United States is very much to your disadvantage. United States is a real democracy with more than 200 political parties Smile Anyway, I thought you took the PAP tack that Singapore politics is uniquely Singapore? Smile

What is the function of a democracy? What should the goal for participating in politics?

To seek to enable all voices from all Singaporeans to be heard irrespective of your own view or to shut out other parties and voices once you are in power? (This is dictatorial) Or to seek to shut out other voices even before you come to power? (This is delusional)

To try to shut out other voices using the argument of UNITY? (This is hypocritical)

To do anything to win a parliamentary seat without regard to principles and ideals? (This is bestial)

Indeed, any politician (opposition or ruling party), or even forumite unable to comprehend the purpose of a democracy does not deserve any respect, dun even talk about votes. (This is suicidal)

You confuse the reasons for accountability and scrutiny in politics. (This is farcical)

sgdiehard SG

I expect Singapore opposition parties who represent us, not foreign orgns. They can defend foreign orgns but if it is against the will of the ppl of Singapore, then they do not have the support of the ppl. Period.

If you dont believe in loyalty to Singapore then what is the interest of the country? If the interest of the country is not the interest of the ppl, then whose interest is it?

I dont know CSJ well enough to comment on him personally, but I know enough to say I cannot support him as a politician. But there is no reason to hate him.

If you want to talk about Nguyen and Australia, go to the relevant threads, you can read my answers and position there.

sgdiehard SG

Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:

You now seem to say that speaking for the people is[b] the only job of an MP. Are you now lambasting PAP for going off track to load town council management on their MPs? Smile
Certainly you understand that town council management in all wards starts with the day the candidate is elected and certainly not before?

If you feel many parties are bad then tell your bosses to legislate for only two parties to be legalised within the system lah. If PAP is one, then hopefully WP is the other.
Resorting to comparisons with United States is very much to your disadvantage. United States is a real democracy with more than 200 political parties Smile Anyway, I thought you took the PAP tack that Singapore politics is uniquely Singapore? Smile

What is the function of a democracy? What should the goal for participating in politics?

[/b]

I hardly discuss singapore politics, not here not anywhere, where did you get the idea that "I took the PAP tack...."? When did I say that speaking for the ppl is "the only job of the MP"?

If it is my boss who can change the legislation on political party, it will be PAP and the other, may be a renegade party split from PAP. As for WP, Low Thia Khiang has good track record, Goh Meng Seng is pretty down to earth, seen so in his exchanges on the Casino issue, Sylvia Lim is approachable, the friendly type, no air and she has a pretty face. As for the rest, especially the young ones, I will see how they grow, before I decide if and how I should put in a word to my bosses. Cool Smile Embarassed

You can discuss in details with Robert Teh about Democracy. I am out of this. Interestingly, with the little exchanges with Low, Goh and Lim, I never heard them talking about democracy. Mr. Green

I voted twice in my life and I voted for the opposition, just for the sake of having an opposition. As I grow, with family and kids, as I see more places outside Singapore, I don think I know more about politics or democracy, but I do know I will not vote for the sake of voting anymore. PAP is not strong because the opposition is weak and the opposition cannot hope to be elected because of a weak PAP, because they are not. Lambasting them will not make them weak. Neutral

I hope Singaporean will have to weep anymore, but, sigh.....do we see any light ahead? Sad Crying or Very sad

depressed SG

If you dont believe in loyalty to Singapore then what is the interest of the country?

that was what i asked you earlier. What exactly is the interest of the country? you keep saying CSJ is putting down Singapore as his working with some foreign organisations and his doing things that is not in the interest of the ppl. So what is your definition of the interest of the ppl? my quote from the earlier post:

is this good for the country? having nations like australia boycotting singapore is what the ppl of singapore wants? have more MNCs from australia refusing to set up business in sg becos of nguyen is also the interest of the ppl?

As a singaporean, I can tell you no, I don't support the execution. Another question is, if for example every singaporean supports the execution of nguyen at the cost of a trade embargo and the cancel of the free trade agreement between singapore and australia and singapore suffer, do you think then, the interest of the country is less important the the interest of the ppl? that, in my opinion, is what i mean by thinking of the interest of the country.

SGLoyalist SG

Hi,

Well, to an extent it can go both ways. To have a higher chance of being elected before being actually elected, one needs to be seen to be representing the people, be it in form or substance.

However, if one politician is not elected after many elections, then it is a different story.

I can understand why Dr Chee moved from the groundwork path (for a short while under Mr Chiam) to the activist (a la Think Centre) path. Firstly, he will not be accepted enough to be elected. Secondly, he cannot run for elections now and grassroots work is pointless Smile

Regards

SGLoyalist SG

Hi,

I am unsure how exactly to define a "good job" by a government, but let us see after looking at Singapore's scores in the world.

I admit the PAP government has their strengths but let us go for overall.

Regards

SGLoyalist SG

Hi,

The US has more than 200 parties Smile

Regards

sgdiehard SG

hmm....then you think you know what is the interest of the country and the ppl don't know what is the interest of the country?

What makes you think that the interest of the ppl is diff from the interest of the country??

Take note, besides economy, there is also national sovereignty and equity in enforcing our laws to consider, to say the least, in deciding if we should go ahead with the execution. Are you afraid of a OZ trade embargo or cancellation of the FTA?

You are the first one who who don't support the DP because you are afraid we would suffer from embargo. post some better argument to substantiate your case or You are confirmed no f a r k i n g balls. Twisted Evil

depressed SG

you are not addressing my issue. I asked you what is your definition of the interest of the ppl. Yet you start being lame by skirting away the issue and posting merry-go-round type of questions. I did not say the interest of the ppl is definitely different the interest of the country. I am just giving an example.

And i did not say i did not support the execution because of a trade embargo. I said i do not support the execution but nowhere in my post did i say that having embargo was the reason i support the abolishment of executing Nguyen. Personally, I am against the mandatory death penalty (buddhist). Maybe your seemingly lack of balls has influenced you so much that you start calling ppl names. IMO you are just someone who only knows how to give false accusations and such. Its amazing you decided to equate manhood to a discussion on a country. From here, at least I know someone who doesn't care abt the interest of the country at stake when you give an impression that having a trade embargo and FTA is no big deal. You are way worse than CSJ. By thinking US has only 2 parties and thinking that is enough, you are showing a big ignorance on a real democracy.

Anyway, back to the topic on CSJ before it becomes too Nguyen.

depressed SG

on a side note, the SDP website is www.singaporedemocrat.org. Whether you are !CSJ or not, I am sure by reading the website with an unbiased thinking would help a lot on your opinion on him.

sgdiehard SG

Laughing

SGLoyalist SG

I have nothing personally against Dr Chee but I think two things on the website of the party which he leads needs corrections and clarifications.

1) He (or rather, his youth wing head which I expect gets his sanction) claims that the SDP youth wing is the only opposition youth wing in Singapore. This is not true. Both Workers' Party and SPP have youth wings, and Workers' Party's youth wing even has an elected ex-co.

http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/youngdemocrats.html

2) His comparison of the late Mahatma Gandhi with himself is not going to go down well with some people. It is fine not to be popular (as he said in the "Singapore Rebel" film) but on the other hand you don't want to be unpopular.

http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/articlecsjandcivildisobedience.html

Regards

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