Send Ram Tiwary back to Singapore to hang

last SG · 2005-09-26T15:50:40+00:00

At risk of re-igniting the debate about the death sentence, here's something interesting about Vlad the Impaler, who inspired the Dracula tale: "Vlad Tepes...

Nelstar SG

I think pikamaster meant that death is not a reversible state and the death penalty itself is irreversible.

I only believe that people who were caught with drugs should not be hanged. It's not like they can't be framed.

Mr. Green

crazy monkey SG

if cane there will be a scar also. if jail a person for 20 yrs how are you going to return his youth to him. i think pikamonster point is tat must be 100 % sure before carrying out a punishment.

sgdiehard SG

Pikamaster,

1)It is not about 100% sure, if there is a little doubt, be it 0.1% that he did not kill with intention, the court would not sentence a suspect to death. It is not uncommon that many murder accused were convicted with manslaughter and escape death.
There is no SHI QUAN SHI MEI de ren in this world, but it doesn't mean that everybody can go around killing people. A better argument for them would be zhi cuo neng gai, shan mo da yan, give those who repent another chance, but do you see any sign of remorse in the smiling face of M McCrea? Evil or Very Mad

2)You should tell the government people to scrape, not the elders, that's why they are paid their phenomenal salaries! Isn't that how singaporean respond? if you don't know, then you don't know the singaporean way then.

3)You are insulting the ITE graduate now!! Mr. Green With different upbringing and life style, words have different meaning to different people or may be to them death penalty may even be an acceptable evil for the good of the general society. Afterall, if you don't kill people, why worry about death penalty?

Sgdiehard

runningismylife SG

LOL pikamaster got owned, n00b.

iveco SG

Hmm, the way you put it gives the impression of the comatose grandma from Goodbye Lenin. Wonder if you have seen the movie. I haven't but I read its review.

The thing that matters is being forward-looking rather than nostalgic should be the way to go.

pikamaster SG

Moderators,

what the hell is wrong with the layout methods the site is using now. Suddenly, every page is shifted doen by half a page and the reply box has shrunk to 1/4 of a page, with the textbox that I typed this post in shrinking to less than 5% the total screen space. Has your CSS gone out of sync, or is this some mysterious bug with Firefox?

the irate pikamaster

Sgdiehard,

(it is very hard to type in a micro-sized textbox so bear with me if I make some typos or mis-quotations)

1) Mr McCrea might be happy for his extradition to Australia, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel remorse for what he's done. He just don't show it on camera, tt's all.

2) Ya, I agree with you on your point. I think you misunderstood me.

3) I am? Oh, I did not intend to, sorry to any ITE grads out there. Embarassed However, it is true that the education system does not give ITE grads much chance to acquire academic knowledge - even under the recent reforms - so I'm merely speaking an objective truth. As far as I know, ITE is technical education.

No, I don't kill people, but I still dislike the Death Penalty because our practice of it hurts our public morality, something which is supposed to be part of our international image. Exclamation

the (still abolitionist) pikamaster

iveco SG

Come to think of it, Mike McCrea scored a victory over the Singapore justice system because we are unable to put him on the noose due to our undertaking to the Howard government in Canberra. It sent a message to would-be killers that they should come to Perth if they have killed someone in Singapore (or Malaysia) to avoid getting the full punishment from the legal systems back home. Precisely why Took Leng How is a retard.

pikamaster SG

Very Happy Yay! Finally sth we both agree on!!

pikamaster SG

if fine, can pay back money,
if jail, can free man from jail and help him find job again, and physical scars remain permanently
Caning is cruel and unjudicial,
Death cannot be reversed if it is wrong.

pikamaster SG

runningismylife,

you misunderstand my argument. It was purely about animals, not man. Ram Tiwary may not have forsaken his cognitive ability; he merely forgot about it in the heat of his anger.

the pikamaster

runningismylife SG

i expected more fire in your argument? justification supported by "he forgot it in the heat of anger"! LOL

my last post in response to this thread. good day mate.

sgdiehard SG

Pikamaster,

1. I certainly hope that McCrea, and all who have done wrong, feel remorse and repent, and then live a new life, after they served their sentence. What we should really be pushing are effective corrective education in prisons, and assistance for ex-inmates, so that the society can be convinced that jail terms alone can ensure that 100% of those released from prison will not commit the same crime again.

2. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

3. I think our education provide academic and technical education only for making a living, and what is really lacking is moral education. Money is still the prime and only code of conduct. ppl peddle drug to make money with no consideration for the addicts, companies retrench to maintain profitability with no consideration for the families of those retrenched, government believe our citizens should be happy if they have a roof over they heads, plus 3 meals a day, human rights, freedom of speech....such moral issues are secondary. sigh....

Singapore's authoritative govenment style is what the west are critical about but US, UK and Australia are our closest allies. Their reports disclose our lack of human rights but american schools, australian schools, and sizes of american, brits and auzis expats are getting bigger and bigger here. How our international image is judged and how we are treated appear to be quite different.

To me death penalty is not the absolute deterance to serious crimes, but unless a better alternative is found, it should stay as it is. In the meantime, continuous improvements are made on the judicial system, process and procedure, to ensure that nobody is wrongly accused and convicted.

and we need to ensure that our system applies to all regardless of race, religion and nationality. why should a suspect be treated differently because he ran to UK and then hide in australia? if a hao were to hide in australia, would the victorian be fighting for his extradiction, the same way they fought for McCrea??? A hao killed one person, McCrea killed two! but a ahao is a chinese malaysian, McCrea is a white british! and of course ahao got only money to run to malaysia, but McCrea got money to fly to Uk then to australia!
In the era of globalization, human rights, equality...all these moral issues are apparently still handled according to your skin color. Crying or Very sad

the (colorless) sgdiehard

pikamaster SG

sgdiehard,

in what way are you colorless? Mr. Green

1) Convicting (and executing) one innocent man is so much more severe than letting many guilty men go free. For many, I believe, the knowledge that you have killed a single person can be very damaging to your psyche. Ophrah Winfrey interviewed prisoners on the Death Row in Florida. All these men had "forgotten" their heinous crimes and the statements they made at court subscribing to their guilt, even claiming to have no knowledge of such events. And some of them had only been incarcerated 2 years ago!

2) you're forgiven.

3) I agree, but that's not the fault of any criminal, unless of course you want to consider the govt a crime syndicate. Very Happy Sometimes I wonder if the govt has a purpose in ensuring that Singapore remains with a 3rd-world income distribution structure...

4) We need to distinguish here: the West has a different social structure from ours. Remember, theirs is a bottom-up structure; the bottom is very strong. Govts, esp. flood relief and security agencies, would obviously envy us and strive to be like us, after all all govts crave control. However, the activist groups and the civilians may have much different opinions. You need to be celar of the definition of "the West" before you make sweeping statements like what you did.

5) Heard of the backward-bending supply curve of labour?

6) Ya, the Victorians probably would, I think. After all, that's their national/regional/local mindset. For them, the Death Penalty is wrong regardless of nationality of the mruderer and number of victims.

Your last statement makes an incorrect conclusion. We must remember that M'sia retains the Death Penalty as well, and the M'sian govt usually colludes with our S'porean govt. C'mon, look at it this way, bith countries are founding members of ASEAN! Australia, on the other hand, is not a member of ASEAN, although it is a member of the "Aisa-Pacific Region". As such, AU don't necessarily share Asian sentiments, even though Asia is right next-door to them.

Just to prove the point, Australia pleaded for the extradition of Shamungam as well. In fact, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer wrote a personal letter to MHA. SHamungam, FYI, is an Indian and NOT an Australian (I believe). So you can't put in Racism into that case. Idea

Cheers,
the pikamaster

iveco SG

Shamugam? Who's that? Any background on his case?

sgdiehard SG

Hmmonly after 2 years and these men forgot about their heinous crimes? Psyche damaged? tell this to the families of the victims. Enough said.
Convicting an innocent man is wrong, whether you execute him or put him in jail for the rest of his life. But letting guilty men go free is as severe as committing the crime itself, especially if the guilty men kill again!! Evil or Very Mad
No chicken sellers will stop chopping chicken just because he is afraid to chop his finger accidentally, he just get better everyday in making sure that he is better at this job. Mr. Green

This is responding to your remarks on ITE graduates. Dont need jump to defend the criminals. Mr. Green

I mentioned US, UK and Australia. So, their govts and their citizens much different opinions. Whatever is our image, we know we please one and piss the other, we will not please both, neither will we piss them both. The idea of my para is WHO CARES! Laughing

They are free to do what they want. Killers take note, makes sure you secure a way to Australia before you act. Twisted Evil

. The police cooperations between Msia and Spore are colluding?? I guess no ASEAN members, govt or citizens will share such AU sentiments. They are not part of ASEAN anyway, not part of ASIA. The crime was committed in Singapore and we were just looking for some respect sof our system, to develop mutual respects. I guess the next time killers from ASEAN can run to AU, and bomb terrorists from AU can run to Indonesia, they are right next door.

Your focus appears to be on the rights of the criminals. I agree with you that accused have equal rights until they are convicted. Once convicted and sentenced, their rights are the right of criminals, not free men anymore. This is to protect the general public from being harmed, such is the public moral.

oxford mushroom SG

pikamaster,

For every victim that does not support the death sentence, there are many who do. Ask the billions in China and the families who troop to watch executions in US states. As long as the majority of the population supports it, it stays.

iveco SG

How big is the majority you are talking about? It could even be 50.1 vs 49.9. The way you put it, it seems to be 99 vs 1.

oxford mushroom SG

You can read into what I wrote anyway you like..The way llibertarians write, you might have thought most Singaporeans are aginst the death penalty.

I am confident the majority of Singaporeans support the death penalty, especially after the Huang Na case. As long as most Singaporeans are for it, the government will not act against the desire of its population.

Having been the victim of a previous robbery and a theft, I would not object if we impose amputations for onvicted robbers myself....that, however, I do not think will be supported by the majority of Singaporeans.

iveco SG

Even so, I have my reservations about the whole affair. We might never know if more than one person might have been involved. The way the main suspect was intorrogated was done behind closed doors. At Scotland Yard, whatever goes on there is watched closely by the tabloids. The climate there is more media-friendly than over in Singapore.

You can rail against civil libertarians and call them whatever names you want, but without them, your chance to vote may disappear altogether.

pikamaster SG

oxford mushroom,

1) Really? I do recall that libertarians said that most Singaporeans should be educated to know the barbarity of the Death Penalty. Amnesty International, for eg, does not make any presumptions about how many Singaporeans support the Death Penalty in its reports.

2) How are you sure of that? And anyway, our government has acted against the desire of its population on quite a number of occations, including the recent I(C)R issue, not to mention the curtailment of free speech etc. So tt second statement is unjsutified.

3) You had your legs amputated? Sorry to hear that. However, whichever way it goes, two wrongs do not make a right.

the (still abolitionist) pikamaster

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