Israel intends to hold on land in the West Bank

oxford mushroom SG

Ariel Sharon was once revered as a hero by Jewish settlers
Israel will relinquish control of some West Bank settlements in final status agreements with the Palestinians, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said.
Major settlement blocs will remain in Israeli hands but other settlements will be ceded, he told Israeli TV.

Mr Sharon said a definitive map would only be presented in final peace talks with the Palestinians.

His comments came days after Israel closed all its settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in the West Bank.

"Not all the settlements in Judea and Samaria today will remain," Mr Sharon said, using the biblical names for the West Bank.

'No more disengagement'

Large settlements, such as Maale Adumim, east of Jerusalem, or Ariel in the centre of the West Bank, would not be given up, he stressed, although he did not name them explicitly.

(BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4195556.stm)

Can it be right that Israel intends to hold on to Palestinian land indefinitely? That will fuel the continuing conflict and suicide bombers for generations to come..

the Bear SG

the Israelis give the Palestinians back the land and the result was a suicide bombing...

the thing i cannot understand is why the world is on the case of Israel when the terrorism is perpetrated by the Palestinians?

and the Palestinians don't even get a slap on the wrist...

now that the Head Terrorist, Yassar Arafat is burning in Hell, the Palestinians have a chance to reject the manifesto of the PLO which is the total destruction of Israel..

the Israelis are pulling out, angering their own people...

there has been nothing done on the Palestinian side, not even a slightest bit of effort to reign in the maniacs of Hamas or whatever...

it is amazing that Israel have not put the Palestinians to the sword.. like the Jordanians once did... don't you think so?

Quincey SG

I guess thats the whole idea right? Withdrawing from Gaza and by that strengthening your claim for parts of West Bank. The disengagement in itself is just part of a ploy to shift world opinion in Israel's favour. I mean we can see this clearly playing out with Israel and the U.S. shifting the onus upon the Palestinains to respond in a pro-active manner to the process of disengagement.

the Bear SG

it is true...

but the onus was on the Palestinians long ago...

just remember what precipitated Arafat walking out of negotiations and starting his accursed Intifadah..

it was Israel agreeing to all his demands!

oxford mushroom SG

Bear,

Let's not forget that the latest suicide bombing was the revenge attack for the 'targeted killings' of 5 palestinians few days ago. It was typical tit for tat.

The reason why many are on Israel's case is because Israel is occupying Palestinian land and has ignored repeated UN resolutions to withdraw for years. If it is justifiable to invade Iraq because Sadam ignored UN resolutions then Israel should have been attacked long ago.

Let us not forget that thousands of Palestinians have been driven from their homes since Israel took the West Bank and Gaza some 30 years ago. Since the Palestinians do not have F16s and Abrams tanks, they have resorted to suicide bombings so that we still remember their plight. Nothing can justify suicide bombing of innocent civilians but there is a continuing injustice being perpetuated on the Palestinians.

the Bear SG

yeah.. true..

let's go back to the beginning yah?

when the place was to be "shared" between the Israelis and Palestinians... the Arabs didn't like it one bit...

and there, the mayhem started...

i would also wonder about the Palestinians... what the heck do they want?

a PLO official once said that the "Palestinian homeland" was just a ploy for the destruction of Israel and when that was done, the very next minute would be that they would "unite with Jordan" or something like that...

i wonder too... too many times, the Israelis have been condemned for the assassination of known terrorists... while the suicide bombings of innocent people by the Palestinians are conveniently brushed aside...

there is a double standard here...

i do not condone any violence but there should be an even-handed condemnation of the Palestinians if they were to keep bombing innocents.. at least the Israelis target terrorists...

remember.. the Palestinians are not exempt from their responsibilities towards peace just because they want to play the part of the "victimised people" when it was the duplicity of their own lea-duhs that brought them to such a sad situation...

Fatum SG

well, are there really right or wrong in this case ? ... whose land does it really belong to ? .... do we count by first come, or last owned ? .... there aren't really "right" answers in this case .... can a solution be found that pleases everybody ... at the present, sadly, i don't think so ....

we got to realise that the way we view this whole fracas are coloured by our perspectives, it is not a matter of who is the underdog, or who has the moral ascendency over the other, the israeli may have all the high tech gadgets, but then again, they are vastly outnumbered and surrounded by nations and groups whose avowed intention is the complete destruction of israel as a country, they live in a siege-like environment that is difficult for outsiders to understand, the palestinians might be perpetrating terrorism in our view, but then again, few can empathise with the bleakness and despair that they feel .....

the conflict in the middle east is as much a media war as anything else, each side uses the media to their advantage, i remember israeli websites showing victims of terrorist attacks, pregnant women with bellies ripped open, limbs on the streets, and of pro palestinian websites, bull-dozed houses, dead sons, dead husbands,...

perhaps an israeli diving buddy of mine put it most succintly:" the israelis has to realise that we can't get rid of every single palestinian, and the palestinians also has to realise that they can't kill us all, nor push everyone of us into the sea".... but both sides has yet to learn to live with each other .... and on both sides,new orphans and widows weep on ........

oxford mushroom SG

Back to the beginning? How far back is the question...

In 1948, the British decided to give the Jews a homeland by carving out a piece of land which was originally British Palestine, under the Brits who took it from the Turks after WW1. The land was occupied by both Jews and Arabs. By carving up the land without the consent of the Palestinian Arabs, I dare say they won't like it one bit and thus the troubles began.

After the 6-day war, the UN passed numerous resolutions requiring Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders, which it ignored. Now we have a continuous tit for tat between Israel who has the weapons and Palestinians who have nothing except hatred and a sense of hopelessness.

What do the Palestinians want? They have said clearly they wanted their lands back to the pre-1967 borders. They want their displaced people to return to their old homes in the West Bank and they want East Jerusalem to be returned to them.

The term terrorist can be applied on anyone...whether you are a freedom fighter or a terrorist depends on whether you win or lose the war. Before the British agreed to form Israel out of British Palestine, there were Jewish groups who committed terrorist acts against the British. People have forgotten the Stern Group (later renamed the Lehi) and Irgun, who have prominent members like Yitzhak Shameer and Menachem Begin respectively.

Members of the Jewish Lehi underground, Eliyahu Hakim and Eliyahu Bet Zuri assassinated the British Minister of State for the Middle East, Lord Moyne in Cairo on 6 November 1944. Amongst the papers released from the British National Archives was one entitled Threatened Jewish Activity in the United Kingdom, Palestine and Elsewhere, prepared for the Prime Minister Clement Attlee, which focused on the activities of the Irgun. It noted that the Irgun, led by Menachem Beginlater to become prime minister of Israel in 1977was responsible in the past for the liquidation of members of the police and the military whose activities have been judged especially worthy of Jewish resentment in Palestine."

Do we still remember these terrorists? Even Nelson Mandela was labelled a terrorist at one time...

If Israel will not go back to its pre-1967 borders, not to mention the perplxing problem of Jerusalem, there will never be any hope of peace in the Middle East. Tit for tat killings, in the form of targeted killings or suicide bombings, will continue...

the Bear SG

frankly i find violence sickening... and both sides should fricken stop with their hostilities once and for all.. to show that they are serious in their peace process...

i read up on this when i was asked by someone why the violence there.. and a search threw up this nugget...

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

so, i wondered about this... were we and the world taken for a ride by the "Palestinians"?

or was the PLO dude talking crap?

vindicated SG

wth! Those Israeli-occupied lands are de facto Palestinians!
Palestine will gain her independence soon!

BillyBong SG

When the oslo peace accords were signed between Yitzak rabin and yasser arafat, peace should have been assured. Then an idiot shot him in the back.

During the 2nd official negotiations with the PLO, Arafat went nuts and called for an intifada, one which mushroomed out of his control.

With Abbas vs Sharon, a new withdrawal agreement and ceasefire has met with promising success. Then those religious fanatics called 'HAMAS' vowed to carry on their sustained bombings till they bombed Israel out of existence. It has already started with one suicide bomber.

Frankly, with religion, there can be no peace. If the palestinians and middle east muslims are guilty of anything, it's naviety and stupidity.

The jews on the other hand are their own worst enemy. They cannot decide whether they want peace or war.

They are simply destined for each other.