Human right group. Shut up for our death penalty system !

last SG · 2005-05-11T14:44:58+00:00

Its stupid to KILL someone over 600 gram of drugs..

jataro SG

Well that is the way to cut long story short in my support of the Death Penalty.

Do you know that it takes mankind 2000 or 5000 years to reach the first billion but only about 100 years for the next 4 billion people.

With such a high population, can anyone solve just the basic problems of food, jobs and housing shortages. These will in turn lead to crime, murders, drug trafficking, etc.

If the world is more united, we will have lesser problems. Criminals would not commit crimes in one country and run to another country just to escape the Death Penalty. I think the mastermind of the London bombing will be happily telling the British bomber to kill as there is no Death Penalty in England.

The crime rate of each country especially the densely populated ones is a good indication of my support of Death Penalty. (These had been shown in the earlier comments at the beginning of the tread)

PS: UN Useless Nations Laughing

pikamaster SG

Jataro,

2) ok...

3) agreed, but that doesn't justify culling people through the use of the Death Penalty, unless you are a fanatical Utilitarian, for which I would have no answer for you.

4) The Death Penalty doesn't really come into play, I think, if you are talking about bombers or suicide bombers who kill for religion. In fact, the application of the Death Penalty, as explaiend earlier in this thread as well, allows "martyrs" to be formed to which the entire movement can rally their spirits around. Seriously, if you are one of these terrorists and you are already treating governments as hell-spawn, wouldn't them killing one of your comrades make it even more justified to treat them as agents of Hell; now here is an evil that can be proved to be done, in fact it is being openly publicised and broadcast; look how evil the world has become.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the deterrent effect of the Death Penalty against religious fundamentalism is mythic PAP propaganda.

5) Have you considered that there are other factors influencing crime rate???

the pikamaster

P.S.: PAP Propaganda And Propaganda

earthlings73 SG

Hi Pika, though some human rights advocates might not see gay rights as part of the "agenda". This article might interested you still:

August 5, 2005
inaccurate reporting by gay media fuels islamaphobia: al-fatiha
By Faisal Alam

Faisal Alam, founder of Al-Fatiha, warns against the gay medias failure to accurately report on stories which fuels growing Islamaphobia and hatred towards Islamic world; and urges gays and lesbians to view the queer liberation movement through a broader lens of social justice and human rights.

In the wake of the recent London bombings, the Western world has been propelled into another vicious cycle of revenge against Muslims and the Islamic world. While mainstream media around the world have more accurately represented the outpouring of condemnation by Muslim organisations and institutions against the attacks in London, the gay and lesbian media in the United States has unfortunately succumbed once again to the false belief that Islam condones acts of violence including suicide bombings, executions of civilians and even the killing of homosexuals.

Started in 1997 by Faisal Alam (top pic), the Al-Fatiha Foundation now has seven chapters in the United States (in Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, New York City, San Diego and Washington DC), and affiliate organisations in Britain, Canada and South Africa. The group is holding its 5th International Retreat for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex, Questioning Muslims & their Allies Sept 2 - 5, 2005, in Atlanta, Georgia, USA.
On July 19, a number of exiled Iranian organisations reported that two teenagers, one aged 18 and the other a minor (who's age is reported to be either 16 or 17) were hanged in Iran, a country that President Bush infamously labelled as part of the "axis of evil." The news of this horrific execution was blasted across gay and lesbian media websites with pictures that depict the final moments of the teenagers as they were escorted to face their inevitable death. On June 20, the largest gay and lesbian political organisation in the United States, the Human Rights Campaign issued a press release condemning the execution and calling on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to condemn the brutal killings in Iran and similar attacks on sexual and gender minorities in other countries.

While the gay and lesbian media in the United States and even the Human Rights Campaign jumped quickly to condemn the executions, government officials in Sweden and the Netherlands announced that they would halt any extraditions of gay people to Iran. OutRage!, a queer political organisation in the UK even went as far as calling for the European Union to institute trade sanctions against Iran for its on-going assault against sexual and gender minorities. While these Western organisations and governments quickly came to the judgement that Iran was displaying a brutal form of oppression, very few people took the time to research the details of the case or even consult with experts who deal with such news on a daily basis. In fact it was almost a week later that we began to read more accurate accounts of why the teens were executed from international human rights groups including Amnesty International, the Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission all of whom have contacts in Iran and ways to confirm news of such incidents from independent sources.

While no one will ever know why these two young men were executed in Iran, what remains clear is that the hysteria surrounding the executions was enormous and only fed to the growing Islamaphobia and hatred towards Muslims and the Islamic world. The fact that the executions occurred in Iran also fed the frenzy of rumours that Iran will be the next target in the so-called "War on Terror." While it may not seem that the execution of two young men propagates the notion that Iran is part of the "axis of evil" one must only look at the lack of outrage expressed at the recent news of three men who were sentenced to be stoned to death in Nigeria for their supposed "homosexuality." Unfortunately the graphic pictures that accompanied the news from Iran only added fuel to the fire that is burning around the world in the minds of those that continue to perceive Islam as a religion of violence and terror. Furthermore, the lack of investigation into the case before a worldwide call to action was proclaimed will probably only perpetuate the cycle of violence against sexual and gender minorities in countries like Iran.

earthlings73 SG

There are two lessons that should be learned from this tragic case:

1) The first is that it is imperative for Western organisations, queer and non-queer, to build connections with progressive NGOs and other groups on the ground in countries like Iran. While many feminist groups and HIV/AIDS organisations have done a tremendous job in reaching out to sister organisations around the world, queer groups in the West have done very little to help become part of the growing international queer movement. Apart from efforts of organisations like Amnesty International and its LGBT program, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, the Astraea Foundation and the Human Rights Watch in the United States, very little effort has been made to educate Western LGBT communities about the real and accurate situation faced by sexual and gender minorities abroad and how to support them in ways that will not cause further backlash. By creating a movement of solidarity, we can begin to more accurately report news and accounts of human rights abuses, while also calling upon our own communities to take action and speak out against such abuses - but only when the time is right and when it is in the best interest of those that we seek to help. Otherwise we will fail to accomplish our real objective - to help alleviate the suffering of queer people in countries like Iran. In fact our actions if not conducted properly may very well add to the targeted arrests of gay men and the subsequent torture and death that they may face, in a country such as Iran.

2) Secondly, we must begin to view our gay and lesbian liberation movement through a broader lens of social justice and human rights. While we seek to condemn the executions of gay teens in Iran, we must remember that our own country (the United States) is one of only five in the entire world that executes juvenile offenders. In fact it was only in March 2005 that the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the death penalty could not be applied to juveniles who committed crimes when they were under the age of 18. Since 2000, countries that have been known to have executed juvenile offenders include China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Pakistan and the United States. Thirteen of these 21 executions of young people have occurred in the United States. While other governments in the Western world continue to move toward a consensus that the death penalty is an inhumane form of punishment no matter what the crime the United States refuses to outlaw capital punishment. In 2004, China, Iran, the United States, and Vietnam accounted for 97 per cent of the executions recorded by Amnesty International. While activists in the United States are quick to condemn the executions of people in the Islamic world, we refuse to look at the issue of capital punishment as it applies to all people regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. The outlawing of capital punishment is not a "gay" issue but it is a matter of social justice and human rights.

In a time when Islamaphobia flourishes in Europe and the United States, it is imperative for the gay and lesbian media to look beyond its Western "pink" glasses. We must not feed into the hysteria surrounding the so-called "war on terrorism," and the assault on law-abiding Muslims. Nor must we let our anger and outrage against regimes like those in Iran interfere with our work to strategically condemn human rights abuses against sexual and gender minorities, in consultation with individuals who's lives will be affected by our actions.

Gay and lesbian media, together with LGBT activists must work together with international human rights organisations that have great experience in dealing with news of horrific human rights abuses. Together, with building connections and supporting LGBT organisations abroad, we can continue our work to build a truly international queer movement for equality and liberation.

Faisal Alam is a queer Muslim activist of Pakistani descent. As the founder of Al-Fatiha, Faisal has represented the LGBT Muslim community at national and international conferences and forums, speaking out about the many challenges facing queer Muslims around the world. Faisal's professional work has included HIV/AIDS education and prevention, LGBT political organising, and women's reproductive rights. Faisal currently resides in Atlanta, GA where he continues his social justice work to build a world of peace, love and justice.

jataro SG

Pikamaster

I hope we are talking about the motion of Death Penalty and not politics and propaganda.

Like I say, I would like to cut the long story short by stating my stand.

By the way Death Penalty is pass down from ancient times. It is for the guilty party and not for culling purpose. Please have an open mind.

If I'm not wrong those countries that abolish Death Penalty are usually the ones that aquire high standards of living and wealth after conquest, colonization, etc. Also these countries are having low birth rates.

P.S.: PAP Pay And Pay[/b] (orginal)

pikamaster SG

Originally posted by jataro:
Pikamaster

I hope we are talking about the motion of Death Penalty and not politics and propaganda.

Like I say, I would like to cut the long story short by stating my stand.

By the way Death Penalty is pass down from ancient times. It is for the guilty party and not for culling purpose. Please have an open mind.

If I'm not wrong those countries that abolish Death Penalty are usually the ones that aquire high standards of living and wealth after conquest, colonization, etc. Also these countries are having low birth rates.

P.S.: PAP Pay And Pay (orginal)[/b]

jataro,

1) the promotion of the Death Penalty is related to politics and propaganda.

3) The way you phrased your stand, even PRP thought that u implied ur support of human-culling. Evil or Very Mad

4) You just shot yourself in the foot: Singapore fits the profile of an abolitionist country, using your description! But anyway, given that the majority of countries are abolitionist in law or in practice, and that the majority of countries in the world DO NOT fit your description, clearly it follows by logic that the description you gave isn't the definite description of an abolitionist country.

thx,
the pikamaster

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