A private man's $600,000 pay - is it of public interest?
SENIOR Counsel Davinder Singh spent some time probing chief
executive officer T.T. Durai on the NKF's reluctance since 1999 to
disclose the salaries of its senior people.
Mr Durai confirmed that the issue never went away, and that the
organisation's position was that it would not disclose.
He said salaries are a very personal thing, and as a private person
he did not want his disclosed.
Also, revealing top officers' pay would have made it difficult to
recruit people.
He also saw no legal requirement to disclose his pay.
Mr Singh pointed out that even though there was no legal
requirement to release all the information included in the NKF's
investment report to the donors, that had been done.
Counsel said that the absence of legal obligations was therefore
not an obstacle.
Mr Durai replied: 'It is a personal matter.'
Counsel remarked: 'I do understand some of that because that is why
people travel first class and have a lavish suite for their
privacy.'
He then asked Mr Durai if he thought the public ought to be told if
a charity decided to pay its chief executive $25 million a year -
funded by donations.
Mr Durai said at first that he could not comment. But asked
repeatedly, he said it would be up to the board of directors. He
also said he would go along with the decision not to disclose even
if the $25 million was, as Mr Singh put it, 'grossly, grossly
exorbitant'.
'I report to the board,' Mr Durai said.
Counsel then moved on to the issue of Mr Durai's pay.
Davinder Singh: In your affidavit, you liken yourself to CEOs of
companies and ministers in government, right? Would you agree with
me that like ministers in the government, you are being paid out of
people's money? Would you agree with me that ministers' salaries
are transparent?
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: Would you agree with me that CEOs of listed
companies have their salaries published in the newspapers?
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And you have likened yourself to CEOs of public
companies. Why are you not publishing your own information?
T.T. Durai: I like my salary to remain private. My board members
know that. My senior colleagues know that.
Davinder Singh: We all like our salaries to be private. But if it's
funded by the public, which takes precedence? The right of the
public to know how much of their money goes to you, or your
preference for privacy?
T.T. Durai: I think it is for the board to decide. The public
doesn't control the organisation.
Davinder Singh: Exactly. Exactly. You see, Mr Durai, the public
does not control, it doesn't have access to information. So doesn't
that place on you a responsibility?
T.T. Durai: We comply with all the regulatory requirements. If the
regulatory authorities imposed a condition that we have to disclose
salaries, we would.
Davinder Singh: Mr Durai, can you tell this court what your salary
and bonuses were for 2002?
T.T. Durai: I was earning a monthly salary of $25,000.
Davinder Singh: And your bonus?
T.T. Durai: Performance bonus was 10 months.
Davinder Singh: Ten months' bonus! $250,000 bonus. This is for
2002.
T.T. Durai: I cannot recall the exact figure.
Davinder Singh: So, if it is $25,000 a month, multiply that by 12,
your total package was $550,000 in 2002.
T.T. Durai: I believe so.
Davinder Singh: 2003, please?
T.T. Durai: You have the numbers. I don't have the numbers
offhand.
Davinder Singh: Tell us, please, so that we don't waste time.
T.T. Durai: About the same I think. I cannot tell you offhand
now.
Davinder Singh: About the same, meaning $550,000 or slightly
higher?
T.T. Durai: About that.
Davinder Singh: How many months' bonus did you get in 2003?
T.T. Durai: Twelve months.
Davinder Singh: In 2004, what was the bonus?
T.T. Durai: Same bonus.
Davinder Singh: Twelve months at $25,000 a month.
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: So for the past three years you have earned about
$1.8 million from the NKF.
T.T. Durai: Yes.
Davinder Singh: And the man who earns $1,000 a month who takes out
$50 of his pay packet every month thinking that it is going to save
lives, should he not know that that is the kind of money you
earn?
T.T. Durai: There is nothing wrong with the money I earn.
Davinder Singh: $1.8 million, I wonder what is wrong. $1.8 million.
Should the man who takes $50 out of his pay packet of $1,000,
leaving $950 for him, his wife and his children, with no savings,
should he not know that some of that money is going or has gone
into a $500,000 to $600,000 pay package for you?
T.T. Durai: Surely he knows.
Davinder Singh: Tell me, how does he know?
T.T. Durai: Let me explain. People donate money to the NKF to run a
dialysis programme that saves lives. We have built a dialysis
programme. We run...
Judge: Please answer the question.
Davinder Singh: You said: 'Surely he knows.'
T.T. Durai: No, I am saying a person who contributes to the
foundation knows that there are people working in the
institution.
Judge: No. The question is, should that person know that you are
earning $500,000, $600,000 a year? It is a simple question.
T.T. Durai: No, your honour, I do not see a need for him to
know.
Davinder Singh: Thank you. It has nothing to do with privacy. It is
about embarrassment, is it not?
T.T. Durai: No.
Davinder Singh: You would lose all authority, all moral authority
to look at him in his eyes, isn't that right?
T.T. Durai: That is not true.
Davinder Singh: If he knew that you were flying first class on his
money, you could not look him in his eyes, isn't that true?
T.T. Durai: It is not true.
Davinder Singh: If he knew that his salary couldn't even buy the
bathroom fittings in your private office suite, you couldn't look
him in his eyes.
T.T. Durai: That is not true.
Davinder Singh: We now understand why you say the $990 tap is not
expensive. Well, coming from you at $600,000 a year, we now know
why you say it is not expensive. But tell us, for that man with
$1,000/$2,000, is it expensive?
T.T. Durai: Yes, he may consider it expensive.
Davinder Singh: He may, or is it? Tell us the truth.
T.T. Durai: I cannot speak for him. It depends on the type of
building, the use of the item.
Davinder Singh: The man in his HDB one-room, two-room, three-room
flat, earning a salary of $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 - would he find
that tap at $990 plus 10 per cent discount expensive?
T.T. Durai: He may consider it expensive, yes.
Davinder Singh: He may, or will he?
T.T. Durai: If he is an educated person, if he knows the use of the
particular office, for what purpose, he may probably think it is
something reasonable.
