Teacher Dillema

last SG · 2004-11-01T22:36:41+00:00

best don;t sign on civil service: my friend who sign on airforce as a technician has to pay back $20,000 coz he cannot passs the exam!!

vinlys SG

I'm perturbed by an incident that happen to a teacher friend and wonder if there's anything a teacher can do if they need to redress an issue
I'm not sure how this can be worded right without sounding like it's some kind of defamatory remark to some school.
A friend teacher has been asked to resign within the three year bond of his teaching career, or face termination.
People in the private sectors know that sometimes they get lousy boss, they have the option to quit and find another job. What happens when you get a lousy principal during your bond?
You break bond, you have to pay the ministry thousands of dollars.
Resignation and termination means breaking bond.
You asked for transfer, it have to be approved by the principal and she doesn't approve.
Appraisals are done by teachers and could be subjected to influence by the principal.
This school have at least two teachers who are asked to resign. Or threatened with termination which means blackmarked for future Civil Service Employment.
What system are there in place that there's no such things happening in Schools?
Teachers with bonds are forced to perform because they face termination if they do not. But what constitutes to non-performance for a teacher?
With increasing efforts from the MOE to recruit teachers. I wonder does MOE have any system in place to take care of the teacher's welfare.
Teacher's face constant pressures from Principals, parents and even media on top of the regular teaching and Extra Curriculum Activities they have to conduct. What avenues are there for them to complain to?
About unfair parents, difficult students, or principals?
Companies who wants to terminate their staff have to submit some kind of report to Ministry of Manpower. Does this apply to schools?

fymk SG

Did your friend get an explanation why he was terminated? If he gets terminated , he has a right to ask for a reason why.

vinlys SG

It's due to poor performance decided by the "management".
He have requested for a transfer before but was rejected by the principal.
I guessed he's 'marked' by the principal. I wonder does the 'management' team need to justify to anyone else for giving Trainees poor grade and terminating them.
One wonders if the management team is subjected to 'higher' influence.
Is there anyway to seek redress?
Does MOE give trainees second chance by transfering them out to other schools?

bratpig SG

I don’t know whether you are talking about yourself or your friend. For the former, I would advise you to quit being a teacher, especially an english teacher. That is because your english sux. There are numerous glaring mistakes in your post. Also, your sentence structure is horrible. Please do not ruin our future generation. Thank you.

Lefleche SG

Hi vinlys,

if the termination is forced upon within the 3 yr bond, then there is no need for the teacher to pay back, unless the termination is something due to a gross breach of conduct e.g. molest student etc etc. otherwise, if they want to terminate you during the bond, they have to give u a very good reason. usually they wont do this because it will cost them money. bad performance is not usually a reason why they would terminate because under the ranking, if u get D grade, u'll be send for counselling/mentoring. only if u get more than i think 3 times, meaning bad performance for more than 3 consecutive yrs then u are asked to leave.

as for resignation, resigning after the 3 yrs usually have no impact. all u lose if your gratuity (u get gratuity every 3-4 yrs under the new incentive scheme).

as for bad bosses, within the 3 yr bond u can still apply out, granted that its subjected to the principal's approval but there are ways to get behind it. for example, u can go for open posting. usually if theres a vacancy elsewhere, and if u can get your friend to go for any interview with the other principal, get into some kind of agreement, impress them so much, they can go to MOE to over rule the existing boss, especially if the other principal is someone with clout. yes, even among principals, some have more clout than others. its been done b4. i have friends who go to another principal, someone with a lot of pull, and impressed them so much that the principal 'requested' for them...then MOE will get the original principal to release.

if your friend is really unhappy, tell em to try the open posting/or ask around other schools. but do this discriminately Laughing

if he is still a trainee...well....don stay in that school. get a post out after practicum. it is a lot easier.

hope this helps...i cant rem all the details in your mail but i hope i replied to the gist of it... Embarassed

greengoblin SG

What about complaining to the Teacher’s Union?

dibilo SG

Hey dude, Wake up! this is the internet. there is no need to post in a forum in perfect english. As long as she can express herself clear enough to get her ideas through, its good enough. Whatever you've said is totally irrelavant to the topic. if you cant say something constructive why not consider to shut up.

skyfoo SG

agree. rmb got 1 idiotic guy claimed i'm a clone of someone just becoz we both use abbreviation.. they think that we are writing essays or important documents..

SilverPal SG

Originally posted by bratpig:
I don't know whether you are talking about yourself or your friend. For the former, I would advise you to quit being a teacher, especially an english teacher. [b]That is because your english sux. There are numerous glaring mistakes in your post. Also, your sentence structure is horrible. Please do not ruin our future generation. Thank you.[/b]

I must commend you for your punctuations, very good usage. Sadly, your sentence structure leaves much to be desired. I would expect the very sentence telling someone else that their sentence structure is bad, to be structured properly, but alas...

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on others' english unless you are qualified?

Of course you would blame your previous english teachers...

vinlys SG

To bratpig: You're right. I'm not qualified to be in the noble profession of teaching. I feel that teachers nowadays are not treated with the kind of respect that they deserve. Be it from the students, parents or even the media. I like kids and the closest I've done to teaching is giving tuition to my Primary Five nephew. (Of which I admit is not an easy task)
Imagine a teacher handling 30 of them, and on top of that planning and running extra curriculum activities which school nowadays are so fond of. I wonder how they are going to fit all those activities into the five day work week in the near future. I believe I won't be able to take the kind of stress that a teacher goes through nowadays. So, in that sense, be assured that I won't ruin Singapore's future generation. Except maybe for my 11 year old nephew.

My friend however, has a genuine love for teaching. Enjoy being with kids and always enthusiatic when talking about the Physical Education Lesssons that he conducts. He likes a good laugh and likes teasing the children. He's also capable of a good shout that will silence the kids when required. What he dislike is the never ending extra curriculum activities that the principal likes to dish out while chasing for honours for the school. I guess he's not the most well liked among the teachers and probably sucks at sucking up to the principal.

It seems that the choice that he have now is to resign and pay the liquidation damages, (Cos he's still on bond) or wait to be Terminated and then appeal. Lose lose situation. The principal seems to be quite certain that he's not cut out for teaching and doesn't want him to teach. I believe that my friend is "advised" to resign so that he doesn't face the risk of being blackmarked in the Civil Service. To me, it seems like a more convenient way to terminate him. Both ways, he face liquidation charges for breaching the bond.

If he appeal, to MOE I guess, (I tried calling them today but they don't seem to willing to listen to me, maybe it's their busy day) they'll send someone down to interview and investigate. I believe it's the Superintendent in charge for the zone who'll be investigating. From what I heard, the principal and the superintendent are related, and pass complains about the school were all clamped down. (Yes, it has happened before) The principal probably also have contacts within the MOE. That's some "clouting" power for you Lefleche.

To be graded "D" is to me is kind of shameful. To appeal means having to be interviewed by the board and going through the "shame" again. And at what rate of success? I believe if the appeal fails, he'll be termed as "Terminated". Even if he succeeds, he'll be known as the teacher "who find problems for the school." He'll probably be "unofficially blackmarked" by the schools.

It seems to me a really unenviable position to be in. He wants to just resign and forget about the whole thing with a possibility of employment in other areas of Civil Service. I wonder if it'll happen again if he just resigns.

(PS. I haven't try calling the Teacher's Union yet, I'm not sure what they can do. Maybe I'll call them tomorrow to find out. Thanks for the tip Greengoblin. Thanks dibilo, I stand by your believe that we should keep quiet if we have nothing constructive to say, but I do not wish to start a flaming war here, I guess more important things needs to be done.)

fymk SG

Your friend have to learn this : Do as the romans do. Politics is everywhere - he should learn that he can "pretend" to like it while hating it absolutely. Must always smile even if u hate the job. I do that all the time. Noone bothers me..

Your friend has to learn this mentality - don't go down alone - hug the whole lot to die (cantonese saying)- and he will have absolutely nothing to lose. I never believe in going down alone - I rather pull the whole place down with me should I be the sacrificial goat. Go off with a HUGE BANG!

The way I see it - the principal has a lot more to lose than ur friend

Go to straits time, news etc - expose the whole lot ...more incriminating evidence the better. Write to PM (since he wants to hear what young people think), Minister of education and everyone . Get MP in as well. Make it difficult for the principal and whoever wants to play a fool .

He resigns and breaks the bond - he becomes a bond breaker - it will become recorded - he will still be blacklisted.

Twisted Evil

pipi & poot-poot SG

Wats d name of d school, principal & staff invovled in dis fracas....

MOE wil look in2 d matter...

In d event d staff in question is unwilling 2 raise d name of d school or principal...

She is advised 2 call up personnel.....

General inquiry line is 6872 2220

Note: Feedback doesn't constitute 2 d staff name being revealed.
Only written complaints will result in dis.

av98m SG

Anyway, hope all those that are thinking of going into teaching will read their contracts including the fine print very carefully before deciding whether or not to sign the dotted line.

Lefleche SG

Vinly, it is not true that principals and superintendants are always related and therefore must help one another and cover up. My principal got so much hell from the sup becos he mismanaged the school...that he must retire prematurely.

The way i suggested to you is the 'insider' way of solving the problem. that is if you want to consider the 'insider' way...which is a lot less ugly and painful. but if u consider my advice as useless, its fine..was just trying to help.

of course you can go the way others have suggested, write to MP, PM, press whatever...name and shame the school...if you do it that way, your friend can forget about working for civil svc anymore. from what u wrote, he loves teaching...there are too few gd teachers left, and even fewer good principals. if you think he has the potential to be a gd teacher, don destroy his career by asking him to go down the noisy way. it is not worth it..

not all principals are bad...and there really is the possibility of working for a gd one..i had worked under gd bosses and of cos back-stabbing ones b4. was back-stabbed by the vice-principal while a trainee, thats why i wrote to another principal, one with a higher standing with MOE and got out of that school into another....well..i speak from experience about 'clout'. u can choose to believe or not.

as for teacher's union...forget it. they are useless. i even refused to join it. i don see how my $90 application is worth it.

Lefleche SG

oh yeah...forgot to add..

no one can force him to resign. he must know his rights on this matter. one of the other forumites is correct...if he is forced to resign, the principal has alot to answer for...so he should be more afraid than your friend.

ask your fren never never give in to the pressure to write that letter...they cant make him do it. ask him to start asking around for a new school....transfers are easier to do at year end...in fact this is the best time to seek a transfer...

vinlys SG

Called MOE again today. Another busy day for them, got bounce around the maze of personnels not knowing who's the right person to speak to.
Called the Teacher's Union, was told that the person in charge will call back. But haven't hear from them yet.

So I guess the only way now is to write a former appeal and "Wait".

vinlys SG

Here's my Conspiracy Theory.
I believe my friend is a victim of "Sha Yi Jing Bai"

Let's name this teacher friend Mr Tao Ge Pacs.
Strange name, but this is a strange situation.

So the story goes:

Principal comes to new school.
School welcomes Principal.
Teachers welcome Principal.
Principal manages school.
Principal mismanages school.
Teachers loses respect for Principal.
Principal loses control on teachers.
Principal blames everyone else but herself.
Principal pressures the Senior Teachers.
Senior Teachers can't do anything to change the situation.
Principal finds "Tao Ge Pacs".
Principal pressures Senior Teachers to conspire.
Tao Ge Pacs get sacked.
Teachers get the message.
School's in order again.

My theory may be a bit far fetched, but it puts everything in place.
That's the only reason I can think of for the Principal to go as far as terminating a teacher.

Teachers goes through tough selection process and are interviewed by panels of not less than four MOE officer. After which, they go through a period of Contract Teaching. Contract Teaching can stretch from Six months to as long as Two years during which the Principal will access if you're suitable to teach. During this period, if the principal finds that the "Subject" is not suitable for teaching, they can terminate his services. At this point of time, the potential teacher is still not under any bond. Incidentally, my friend got through six months of Contract Teaching.
After that, when you're deemed as suitable for the teaching career, then you will sign bond with MOE and go through NIE training.

All this system are in place to ensure that there's no mismatch of personnel and that it minimise "Bond breaking" , "Termination" or "Resignation".

My friend have went through all of these selection process without much problem. However, now he is graded as a "D" in the appraisal and in his current dilemma. All this came without much of a warning and certainly "shocked" my friend and all the other teachers.
If he is so "unsuitable" for teaching that he deserves no "second chance", this "unsuitability" should be spotted through the strict selection process.

I guess the Principal have to go through quite a hassle to "Terminate" a Teacher. Having to go through all the interviews and justification. If it's a "Resignation", it'll be more convenient. I'm sure the Principal is prepared for the "Interview" and have gathered incriminating evidences against my friend for poor performance. He'll have gone through the painstaking process of collecting and documenting these "Non-Performance".
While my friend, innocently wakes up at 6 am everyday, works his ass off in school, comes back during MC to work, stress like hell thinking about and conceptualising CCA activities for the school.

So, for the good of the school this has to be done.
To "Sha Yi Jing Bai".
Another Idiom would be "Cheng Yi Jing Bai", only differece is we're on different side.
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/739/2003-10-24/[email protected]

dibilo SG

omg this is so freakingly sad...... they are trying to recruit more teachers while chasing the good "old" ones away?? why isnt there somewhere where teachers can seek redress in such situations

vinlys SG

Everyone would want to settle this kind of situation quietly. The problem is there's no time left to go around hunting for good schools with good principals with clout to consider my friend as a teacher. Correction on my earlier posting, the principal "advised" against the teacher transferring to another school and not disallow him transfering. Principal 'sweettalk' the teacher to stay and then this.

The teacher have to decide now whether to resign (Go down quietly) , Get Terminated and appeal (Still going down but with some noise) or what ever you guys can suggest.......

Termination equals blackmarked for Civil Service. Resignation equals Bond Breaking equals blackmarked for Civil Service.
You do the calculation.

nicole21 SG

This situation sounds like a case of biasness and sadly, a situation whereby higher authority wins all. Hasn't it always been by default, higher authority (in this case the principal) having more power, more autonomy and therefore more support from governmental bodies and statutory boards. Who's words would be taken more seriously? A pricipal who has been in the system for donkey years, or a teacher still serving bond? If a case were to be presented, chances are, the principal's words would carry more credentials as compared to the individual teacher. Unless a collective group stands out to voice their dissentment, victory is often awarded to the higher personnel.

Sadly, how many of Singaporean individuals (teachers) are willing to step-up & challenge the power of higher authority? Fear of power and fear of losing their rice bowls prevents then from speaking up and thus, many choose to suffer in silence. Isn't this a great flaw in the education system??

Also, in an environment that promotes learning and moulding individuals, isn't it the principal's DUTY and responsibilty to guide the teacher in the event that the teacher is underperforming? How is learning incorporated when the pricipal does not take on the role of a motivator and mentor?? What sense does it make to "ask" the teacher to resign?? If such is the attitude displayed by the principal, what could you expect from his teachers? Such, are acts of irresponsibity. The principal plays an important role in guiding his team of teachers to guide and mould the children of the future. If we as adults do not embrace appropriate values, the next generations will not be taught what is right and what is wrong.

Therefore, my conclusion is that thre are major flaws in the system which should be reviewed ASAP.. Losing dedicated teachers through personal biasness from principals means losing an ASSET in MOE.. Remember, the most efficient way of teaching & motivating comes from personal examples...