What's the background on this PRC brouhaha?

Xprobe SG

Ged, let me fill you in...

3) Spore is easy to get in compared to preferred destinations such as US/ Cdn/ Oz. There are 2 types. Those on grants and those who are spending their own money. As far as the grant ones are concerned, this is part of the foreign talent effort. Most of these students are offered PR status to work for Spore when the graduate. The other thing is that when these students settle down in Singapore, they become channels or drivers for enhancing Spore's penetration into the PRC markets, kind of like the various economic/ business consultancy firms financed by foreign countries. E.g. Germany sponsors various projects in other countries in the hope that it helps promote use of German brands, technology.

Gedanken SG

Thanks for that, Xprobe.

I'm all for bringing in foreign talent if that talent fills a need that the local population cannot. I haven't seen any facts or figures about how capable the local population is of filling Singapore's engineering needs, but it just doesn't make intuitive sense that China can fill Singapore's need in this department. Considering how Singaporean engineers were sent to Suzhou to help out, for example, would the need in fact not be acting in the other direction?

Vis-a-vis how Germany sponsors projects in other countries, it seems to be that it is different because it is not carried out at the expense of educational and work placements of Germany's own citizens - have I missed something here?

Xprobe SG

My take is that it shoots a few birds with one arrow:

1. Maintain racial proportion status quo
2. Why not? Good enuff if they can get an Eng. degree from Singapore Uni.
3. Seeding Spore's future penetration into PRC.

Suzhou is a totally different story. A miscalculation. As the poem goes for this fiasco:

Scholar scholar burning bright,
Whats thy fate after the Suzhou plight,
Stamford, Oxford and Ivy League theories,
Still ganna screwed and left with worries,
Cant you see my Golden Child,
The world dont turn to your dial.

Sardaukar SG

Not to sound anti-Chinese, cos I am partially Chinese but I think that they should throw the damn racial quota's to the air.Chinese supremacy my ass.The proportions will change given the mixing of the different ethnic groups in Singapore.For god's sake,many Malay and Indian men marry Chinese women as they are the most numerous.I forsee a decline in the Chinese population to perhaps half of the population within a few generations.Singapore is not a chinese country nor is it a part of Greater China.Singapore should be true to its multiracial heritage,not like it is now.That is why I bear a resentment to this country,for betraying its multiracial,multicultural heritage though I still love it.I just feel that certain ethnic groups are treated "more equally" than others.Witness the Speak Mandarin campaign,the predominance of PRC scholars over those from other countries,the restriction on Malays serving in the SAF(though that is justified given the religion),the superiority complex that some people

Regarding the study mama's,they are mothers of China students who come here to study at secondary or primary level and work here to support their children while they study here.There have been 'problems' with them such as visa violations and the perception that China women cause social problems.Admittedly,while most are decent enough,some do cause trouble.

As for engineering degrees from Singapore uni,I suppose that they are trying to raise the standards of the uni,to raise its status in China.I have known many PRC students while studying in Sydney,and that work pretty damn hard.

Also,seeding Singapore's future penetration into the PRC market,it is pragmatic to take this approach,but must it be at the cost of the locals?China's rise is inevitable,but we should balance out our investments by taking Thai's,Indonesians,Indians and Filipinos also.That way we get to penetrate the markets of these countries as well.Thailand is a rising star under Thaksin,and Indonesia has amazing potential.All they need is some discipline and efficiency and they could outstrip even us!

Btw,relying on PRC alone is a fool's choice.We should diversify and take in foreigners from other countries as well,as it would help to diversify our gene pool.

socrates SG

Considering how Singaporean engineers were sent to Suzhou to help out, for example, would the need in fact not be acting in the other direction

The numbers of engineers going to be fixed. Even if there is a serious demand of engineer here, these engineer still need to go to suzhou to help out. I think this does not reflect on the actual demand for engineers here.

but how does that square with all the anecdotal evidence around that shows that there are large numbers of Singaporean engineering graduates who are out of work? I don't think -all- of them are refusing to take up engineering jobs, right? My unemployed engineer friends certain aren't.

Well... I think there may be a need to ask what is the honours that some of these people got. Looking around, I see a lot of people already being recruited by companies even before they graduate. Now the Microelectronic sector is MASSIVELY recruiting more people.

Another point is, before the economic downturn, there is an acute need for engineers. It is during these years of turmoil that the demand had reduced. Now things are looking up again.

Actually I do not blame you for feeling that the Gov seems to be all for certain races. Sad It had to resort to artificial means to establish the racial proportions of the people.

However if the racial mix has changed drastically for the country, it may means some problems. Some of them are, as you have said, the number of people able to be selected for army. There may arises some other problems such as social injustice where a small minority of races get the most of the riches. As can be seen in Indonesia, the chinese turn out to be the richer group of people which cannot be accepted well by the majority of the citizens. Anyway this is just my opinion...

Also,seeding Singapore's future penetration into the PRC market,it is pragmatic to take this approach,but must it be at the cost of the locals?China's rise is inevitable,but we should balance out our investments by taking Thai's,Indonesians,Indians and Filipinos also.That way we get to penetrate the markets of these countries as well.Thailand is a rising star under Thaksin,and Indonesia has amazing potential.All they need is some discipline and efficiency and they could outstrip even us!

Actually they do not just recruit people from china, they too recruit a lot of people from ASEAN such as from Indonesia, India, Vietnam, Malaysia etc. When one is in university such as NTU, one can also see their vast numbers of these other foreigners around too.

When giving scholarship to other countries citizen asking them over here to study, it had to be approve by their Gov as well. Looking it from another angle, this is a brain drain from their country.

leigh SG

On average, the MOE tuition grant for foreign students, which is equivalent to the subsidies enjoyed by Singaporeans, is worth about $18K per annum for university courses and $9K per annum for polytechnic courses. Thus, every foreign student who has a place in our local tertiary institute receives a large chunk of subsidies even if he or she is not on a scholarship. In return, they are obliged to work three years in Singapore after graduation.

5) Does this kind of grant apply to students of other nations?

Yes.

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