Would u Choose to be Born a Singaporean???

last SG · 2004-03-14T20:50:41+00:00

if i ever become a parent & also rich I will never want my children to grow up in a society (or rather "leaders") filled with so much decite, lies, bulls...

CX SG

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,239930,00.html?

Straits Times
MARCH 13, 2004
insight
Would you like to be born in Singapore? Come on, you can be honest
By Asad Latif

I WAS amazed to receive your e-mail. Here I am, a baby not yet born, and there you are, in Singapore, asking for an interview. I dare say that technology is one of Singapore's major draws.

You say that everyone has a view on Singapore's baby shortfall. The carrots being dangled in front of couples are getting bigger, but there is talk of using the stick as well if people do not respond. In this frenzy, people have forgotten us - the babies-to-be.

Do I want to be born in Singapore? That was your question.

Here is my answer.

What I find astonishing about your baby debate is that it is not about babies but dollars. How much does it take to bring up a child? What does he cost his mother? How far should she be rewarded for her motherhood? How about men? Could they get some time off - time is money - for being fathers?

I do not know whether to laugh or to cry at those questions. Have these couples ever wondered whether their parents would not have been better off without having them? Are they willing to pay their parents for the bother of raising them, for dreams unfulfilled, for opportunities foregone? What is the going rate?

So why should we, the unborn seeking the sun, be born in a world of cold calculations? Why cannot couples just have us, as their parents had them, and take life from there?

I do understand why your government is desperate. Unlike parents who can choose not to have children, a government cannot choose not to have a country. A country requires people to work for it, fight for it and make babies for it.

Yet, there are problems. Asad, have you noticed how often the word 'contribution' is used in your Singapore? It is such a big word that I can barely spell it correctly.

Society values a person for what he or she contributes, ultimately to the economy. Baby incentives are the smiling face of the same coin whose other face demands sternly that the child contribute to the economy.

I have nothing against contributing, of course. In fact, I shall hardly mind if, some day, I pay more in taxes a year than what someone makes by way of a salary.

However, I cannot guarantee this. I am a brainy child-to-be, and so I know what is a guarantee, but how can I promise it? Can you promise me that Singapore will accept me whether my talents lie in making money or in making music, in excelling at things which make me happy without making others suffer?

I want to be born. Can you promise me that Singapore will cherish me for what I will be - which I do not know now - rather than treasure me for what it wants me to be?

Do not call my questions childish: I am not even a child yet. I know that there is no country where children rule. Everywhere, people welcome the next generation as the future, but by the time that generation comes of age, the future has passed into its past and it is time for another future, another carpet of mile-long hopes laid out for another generation waiting to be born.

I understand all this, but can you understand what I am saying? I am saying that I want to be myself, and so long as you count me in dollars, I am too precious to be born.

Are you upset, Asad? Sorry, but you wanted me to speak the truth.

All right, calm down. I have more to say about Singapore.

You have a lot going for you. I can be born in your country without cats and dogs hosting my reception on the hospital floor.

No civil war will kill me before the age of four. No mother will need to sell me off at 12 if I am a girl. No starving father will have to depend on my eight-year-old arms to bring food home by carrying the bricks with which the rich build their homes.

Your schools are not communes, but they are not palaces, either. They are playpens of the nation. Every child gets the same toys - English, maths, science, the mother tongue - with which to build tomorrow's Singapore.

These sharp toys often cut tender skin - God help the Singaporean who does not know how to play with them - but, at least, no Singapore child has to become a foreign worker because his parents were too poor to give him the most expensive of toys: English, the passport to the riches of the globe.

And, most of all, Singapore stops no child from climbing into its lap because of the colour of his skin or the name of his faith.

That is why I want to be born there.

I do not know what I shall be if I am born: girl or boy, a tycoon's child or a gangster's brat, the darling of my parents or the debris of a broken home.

I have no idea of which race or religion awaits my arrival. I do not know what my chances in life will be. Will I excel in school or elbow my way through the university of life? I do not know.

But I can speak about Singapore honestly because I do not know how the dice will fall for me.

I do want the dice to fall for me in Singapore because I want to live before I can struggle to be what I want to be.

For that, I need a set of parents.

Could you pass the word around?

Thank you.

Yours Sincerely,
unborn child

CX SG

u know, with all these talk about declining birth rates and subsidies and parents and employers, we really do seem to have forgotten about the babies themselves...

what kind of world are we bringing our descendants into? what have we become?

sgboy2004 SG

many of mi friends...young young already dun wanna hav kids liao...and then many wanna retired in a country other than sg

Rolling Eyes

______________________
I am Croco, Croco am I

I-like-flings(m) SG

ya lor.. your fren all staying in aust now right?? so many croco there...

haha if i can choose i wont want to be born here.. just some small small village in a high high mountain far far away from city can already lah

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The reason why babies are viewed as dollars and cents and mere numbers is because the individual Singaporean never really mattered much to The Party for consideration at all.

Instead of building a soceity with systems which nutures each individual to discover his own ability and potential and to serve soceity in his own gifting and talent (the only exception being the system of NS). What we get instead is a Party that's always focused on the "needs" of the majority, expecting every single person to be mass-produced, factory-stamped units with put into very rigid moulds of preformance citera, yes, we are little more then parts in a machine, lifestock destined to go no futher then our holding pens.

For The Party, it's always a case of one for all and all for all. In the end everybody suffers except for the select few who are determined to be holding most of the stakes in Singapore's interests.

Since we don't matter to them as individuals, it is logical for them to think in terms of numbers rather then treating the Singaporean as an individual with his own aspirations and dreams, as a unique unit.

Hence their measures are just one more in another in a ham-fisted attempt to hammer what they view to be another area of Singaporeans exercising to much individuality into its place, and I have no illusions over what they might try...

pikamaster SG

Originally posted by CX:
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,239930,00.html?

Straits Times
MARCH 13, 2004
insight
[b]Would you like to be born in Singapore? Come on, you can be honest
By Asad Latif

I WAS amazed to receive your e-mail. Here I am, a baby not yet born, and there you are, in Singapore, asking for an interview. I dare say that technology is one of Singapore's major draws.

You say that everyone has a view on Singapore's baby shortfall. The carrots being dangled in front of couples are getting bigger, but there is talk of using the stick as well if people do not respond. In this frenzy, people have forgotten us - the babies-to-be.

Do I want to be born in Singapore? That was your question.

Here is my answer.

What I find astonishing about your baby debate is that it is not about babies but dollars. How much does it take to bring up a child? What does he cost his mother? How far should she be rewarded for her motherhood? How about men? Could they get some time off - time is money - for being fathers?

I do not know whether to laugh or to cry at those questions. Have these couples ever wondered whether their parents would not have been better off without having them? Are they willing to pay their parents for the bother of raising them, for dreams unfulfilled, for opportunities foregone? What is the going rate?

So why should we, the unborn seeking the sun, be born in a world of cold calculations? Why cannot couples just have us, as their parents had them, and take life from there?

I do understand why your government is desperate. Unlike parents who can choose not to have children, a government cannot choose not to have a country. A country requires people to work for it, fight for it and make babies for it.

Yet, there are problems. Asad, have you noticed how often the word 'contribution' is used in your Singapore? It is such a big word that I can barely spell it correctly.

Society values a person for what he or she contributes, ultimately to the economy. Baby incentives are the smiling face of the same coin whose other face demands sternly that the child contribute to the economy.

I have nothing against contributing, of course. In fact, I shall hardly mind if, some day, I pay more in taxes a year than what someone makes by way of a salary.

However, I cannot guarantee this. I am a brainy child-to-be, and so I know what is a guarantee, but how can I promise it? Can you promise me that Singapore will accept me whether my talents lie in making money or in making music, in excelling at things which make me happy without making others suffer?

I want to be born. Can you promise me that Singapore will cherish me for what I will be - which I do not know now - rather than treasure me for what it wants me to be?

Do not call my questions childish: I am not even a child yet. I know that there is no country where children rule. Everywhere, people welcome the next generation as the future, but by the time that generation comes of age, the future has passed into its past and it is time for another future, another carpet of mile-long hopes laid out for another generation waiting to be born.

I understand all this, but can you understand what I am saying? I am saying that I want to be myself, and so long as you count me in dollars, I am too precious to be born.

Are you upset, Asad? Sorry, but you wanted me to speak the truth.

All right, calm down. I have more to say about Singapore.

You have a lot going for you. I can be born in your country without cats and dogs hosting my reception on the hospital floor.

No civil war will kill me before the age of four. No mother will need to sell me off at 12 if I am a girl. No starving father will have to depend on my eight-year-old arms to bring food home by carrying the bricks with which the rich build their homes.

Your schools are not communes, but they are not palaces, either. They are playpens of the nation. Every child gets the same toys - English, maths, science, the mother tongue - with which to build tomorrow's Singapore.

These sharp toys often cut tender skin - God help the Singaporean who does not know how to play with them - but, at least, no Singapore child has to become a foreign worker because his parents were too poor to give him the most expensive of toys: English, the passport to the riches of the globe.

And, most of all, Singapore stops no child from climbing into its lap because of the colour of his skin or the name of his faith.

That is why I want to be born there.

I do not know what I shall be if I am born: girl or boy, a tycoon's child or a gangster's brat, the darling of my parents or the debris of a broken home.

I have no idea of which race or religion awaits my arrival. I do not know what my chances in life will be. Will I excel in school or elbow my way through the university of life? I do not know.

But I can speak about Singapore honestly because I do not know how the dice will fall for me.

I do want the dice to fall for me in Singapore because I want to live before I can struggle to be what I want to be.

For that, I need a set of parents.

Could you pass the word around?

Thank you.

Yours Sincerely,
unborn child
[/b]

this is a very intresting article, and from a very personal point of view too.

i agree with the unborn about the fact that the debate has sof ar been on nothing but money. from the startt of this year's Budget Debate, i found it most amusing that population policies can actually be tied in with budget at all! sometimes, our ministers are juz so creative. *sigh*. however, of course, i think that criticizing the parents for wanting more money is not right, since most clearly the parents want more money in order to support their children, what with high healthcare costs, education costs, transport costs, food costs, etc.

i agree also with teh unborn's rhetorical questions abt societal contributions in the arts sectors- will they be valued more than just financially?

the next part of the article strikes me as rather cynical or ironic, esp. the part abt the "sharp toys". And of course the sharpest one of all would be the mother tongue, in particular CHinese: CL 'B' is NOT going to help at all, if they do not make the textbooks more interesting and relevant to the modern life.

then the unborn praises Singapore for all the benefits you get being born here i.e no civil wars, racial equality, economic strengh etc. of course, there are no civil wars. racial equality and economic strength, however, are rather facadious, considering the alleged formation of "racial enclaves" in our schools and foreign (white)preference in job application. as for economic strength, is it really accurate to say that the lay Singaporean is "rich"? lastly, the unborn forgot that being born in SIngapore means that he will not be able to speak his mind out on politicla matters as then he will be labelled as a "defamer".

i guess it is alright for the unborn to ask for a set of parents, but...*sigh*, this is soooo complex!

the pikamaster with conflicting thoughts

edwinSSM SG

II say, u reap what u sow....
PAP planted these seeds and these are wat they are getting.

CX SG

well, i don't particularly agree with the "racial enclave" thingy u were referring to... if anything at all, i think this is a rather remarkable achievement here at least for myself... i have friends of every creed and race and it has gotten to a point that we're so certain and so comfortable, that we don't even have to mind those unsaid "sensitivities" ... we're perfectly comfortable and at ease with each other.

but really... is does seem rather offensive to place a price tag on everyone in this day and age... "what school do u go to?" "how much is that scholarship worth?" "how much do u make?" "what car do u drive?" ...

and kids will be subjected to this kind of scrutiny if they're born here... are we alone in judging pple by these shallow criterias? or are we perhaps over-doing what pple in other countries do as well?

it sickens me that pple here measure each other by what they own... poor unborn ones...

Viper52 SG

No we are certainly not alone, there will always be such people who judge others by what they own, and they do exist no matter where you are.

However, from personal experience, I would have to say that such notions seem to be more prevalent here that anywhere else that I've gone to.

I don't know if this phenomenon is part of the package of being noveau riche, but it certainly seems so.

Viper52 SG

We have become exactly what our political masters want us to be (and who have shaped the system to that effect). Mindless, ignorant, apathetic human batteries driven by a lust of money who care for little beyond the confines of our pigeonholes and offices, never mind the good of the country and the world beyond. Just slave for the GLCs, MNCs and SMEs to make them happy to provide for the government's pockets in exchange for some material well-being and "stability"

Well, most of us have, anyway

CX SG

i guess we work too hard... seriously... if singaporeans didn't spend so much time working, they'll probably have more personal time and actually consider having a kid...

hee... as if its possible, with all those bills to pay...

nismoS132 SG

not all bills are necessary. most people are too accustomed to their luxuries that it becomes a necessity for them.

why do pri sch children have hps?
why do people earning minimal wages have hps?
are cars a necessity?
do we have to turn on the air con every bloody minute? do we even NEED the air con?

for those of us in the middle and lower income groups, there are many things we can cut back on, but yet so many are unwilling.

[email protected]_arms SG

It is time for some hip young Singaporean, dressed in black leather and sporting sunglasses and gelled hair, with the ability to dodge parking fines and police bullets, and the ability to fly and master every kungfu move, to FREE SINGAPOREANS from the SYSTEM: The Ma-cough pap-Trix.

CX SG

u know... thats a question i've been wanting to bring up for some time now... just that nobody seems to want to discuss it...

are we living beyond our means? so much so that even a basic biological function like procreation is now restricted by our lifestyle?

shove the gov't aside for just one moment. nevermind the fact that they want us to have more children.

don't pple want to have kids when they get married? a family is indeed, a little lacking without kids... yes its hard work, yes its expensive...

BUT shouldn't pple be thinking of ways to afford it rather than simply saying that "its too expensive" while driving a fancy car, paying off the mortgage on a condo and going on expensive holidays every 6 months?

are singaporeans such a narcissistic people that we can't see beyond ourselves? that we even neglect to see ourselves in the faces of our young?

stuff the government's self serving arguments about how not having children places undue burden on society at large to pay for the higher costs of healthcare in an ageing population. screw that.

yes, procreation is an individual choice and we should neither be encouraged NOR discouraged simply by nonsensical gov't talk.

but the recent economic downturn has caused some pple close to me to lose jobs, fall into debts and end up in financially embarassing situations...

how the hell did that transpire? was it all that necessary to buy that fancy new continental car that's parked downstairs 1/2 the time?

was it necessary to spend so much money on renovation? was it imperative to move to a condo and tying up such a high percentage of one's income there?

was it smart to have so many credit cards and hitting the limits on all of them??!!

beyond a point, its not really a matter of "costs" ... many of us are really messed up pple with a warped sense of priorities...

by the way, i got a sinus problem... i can't sleep in an air-con room Mr. Green

Atobe SG

This article is probably assigned to the ST Columnist, so as to provide an alternative propaganda to draw attention from the stupid remark from the PAP MP - that Childbirth is a National Duty.

While GOVERNMENT look at birthrates with a macro view, with different objectives, values, and emphasis, they seem to be 'Out of Touch' with those whom they GOVERN.

It is almost similar to the situation, in which Parents have found their role to be frustrating, trying to make the Children understand the importance of Educational Achievements, while not being able to understand the difficulties that the Children is having - with the education syllabus, the education system, and the general environment that prevent the Children to succeed.

The Government seems to have brought this situation onto themselves, and Singapore.

Having succeeded in achieving an environment that is supposedly equal to the Swiss Standard of Living, or euphemistically termed as the First World, they have also brought into Singapore, a New Life Style that is widely preferred by those living in the First World Societies.

The emphasis of this New Lifestyle of the First World Societies placed a high value in personal independence that include both Economic and Emotional Independence.

Is Singapores status of being in the First World in Form only, and without Substance - that prepare and allow the Citizens to FULLY enjoy the REAL fruits of the Labor of being in the First World ?

If Singapores success is WITHOUT Substance, and the success is only in its OUTER Form of being in the First World, this will explain the reasons for the present economic and social limbo that we find ourselves in presently - suffering the malaise of the mature economy of the First World, and being pulled down by the basic economic demands of a population stuck in the working conditions of a Third World.

Under such circumstances, if we do not look at, and refused to understand, the DOLLARS and SENSE of having Children, and simply bring forth multiples of children in our Life time, what will be the other consequences ?

When deciding on Marriage and Childbirth, the long-term view must be looked at in the correct perspective; with both occasions to be viewed in parallel with ones Age.

Marrying too late will result in late Childbirth; or preferring to have a delayed Childbirth, can both result in the problems arising from Generation Gap as in a situation when Parents who decide to marry late, or delay having childbirth, will end up being in their 60s, just when their Children enter into the age of independence at 20.

Besides considering the DOLLAR part, any couple will have to consider the SENSE in deciding to have children.

socrates SG

Talking about First World conditions and citizens being stuck in a third work working environment, which Asean country isn't spared from this Rolling Eyes Japan is the second biggest economy in the world yet they still worked the hardest... I think it will be unfair to compare with European or USA since they are already have a headstart just after WW2.

Anyway lets put politics aside as CX had said in this thread. If politics is interested many other threads around here that discuss about it.

To me, I basically aims to have 2 or lesser. Why ? Because I have no time. That is the cold hard fact in life. Both me and my spouse is working, and in Singapore both of us probably have to work till 9. When we both return home, the childrens are already close to sleep. We too are tired ourselves and we both have other things we want to do. (Like writing in forums) We cannot even have a chance to talk to them or bond to them properly... If I have more children, this short period of time will be divided even lesser. I will have lesser and lesser chance to emotionally attached to them. I do not know who is their best friend, I do not know their preferences, I do not know why they are more and more close up to their friends then to us. I do not want a situation where everyday I ask them "how is your day ? " and they sum it up in a word, "Fine". (I do not have any children yet Mr. Green )

In my case, or probably in a lot of family case, money is not the issue here, time is. It is not about personal desire to have more childrens or not, we need to consider it is fair for the children themselves.

Do not compare with the past since in the past my mother is not working and my father has more free time than me. My spouse has undergo many years of schooling too and you cannot expect her to give up everything and be a housewife isn't it ? You cannot expect us not to work OT everyday since it has became our company, or most comapnies "norms".

BTW... I too got a sinus problem and cannot stand sleeping in an aircon room Mr. Green

CX SG

haha... guess sinus is a pretty common affliction here... Very Happy

Atobe, obviosly, no one is saying "screw dollars and sense, lets just make babies..."

i've opposed this idea in other threads myself... but what i'm getting at here, is that financially well adjusted individuals are refusing to have children because they have other priorities.

but u're probably right that this article too, is propaganda... to seemingly draw attention away from the prickly political debate and attempt to present a humanistic, social perspective from the hypothetical interview with a fetus...

but then, i'm about to disregard any views just because it has an agenda... if it is able to withstand the scrutiny of close reading, there's probably something in there worth thinking about.

are we really such cynical narcissists? i know i can be sometimes Mr. Green

Atobe SG

CX and socrates,

Both of you are correct that todays Lifestyle put too much emphasis on too many priorities in other human pursuit.

It makes one wonder why everyone and anyone will pursue the idea of marriage when there is no immediate plan to start a family.

Will it not be better to continue in the 'Romance of Co-Habitating', then to enter into a Marital Contract with the significant crossing of a threshold of new responsibilities, behavior and social expectations ?

In my last post, even with politics aside, and even with the Dollar part being ignored, the Sense part addressed the consequences of Late Marriage or Delayed Pregnancies which will result in the never ending debate about the Generation Gap, in understanding or misunderstanding between Parents and Teenagers.

Try making babies and starting a family, it may help in solving the 'Sinus Problems' the joys of Parenthood, and the accompanying disinfecting smell of the new born, seems to give relief to the daily stresses, and make sinus disappear.

A word of caution, the sinus problem maybe passed on to your offspring.

CX SG

[quote]Originally posted by Atobe:

Will it not be better to continue in the 'Romance of Co-Habitating', then to enter into a Marital Contract with the significant crossing of a threshold of new responsibilities, behavior and social expectations ?

thats an issue of how u define "marriage" isn't it? in Sg, we are faced with the peculiar situation of young pple only able to move out into their own place IF they get married... since its pretty obvious that a fresh grad would not be able to afford private property immediately.

in fact, that is also a problem now as we find that too much liquidity is tied up in fixed assets with the resulting dire consequences should one lose his/her job. also, with so much disposable income going towards paying for and maintaining the new home, there's often very little left to safely consider a baby.

not to mention we have to take care of our parents as well. that's money too.

i haven't taken that big step yet, but i've made some calculations in preparation for the future and i've found it a very ridiculous situation. ideally, i'll prefer to rent as i do now... but cos of societal pressures, one almost feels compelled to get a hdb flat straight after rom, which i find frankly, quite absurd.

thank goodness that hdb has decided to build 3 room flats again... hopefully, that will make life easier for young pple like me.

Try making babies and starting a family, it may help in solving the 'Sinus Problems' the joys of Parenthood, and the accompanying disinfecting smell of the new born, seems to give relief to the daily stresses, and make sinus disappear.

A word of caution, the sinus problem maybe passed on to your offspring.

was that supposed to be funny? cos i don't get it... Rolling Eyes Smile

sinus is neither fun nor funny... and to control serious cases, i'll recommend clarityne rather than babies.

Atobe SG

CX, it is certainly unfortunate that marriages are today being dictated by the necessity of getting a roof over the head first, without considering the long-term implication of the good Sense of Marriage.

It seems that the Dollar and Sense has to be linked in this discussion even if we try to avoid it, and simply based on the merit of having babies.

Comparing the comfort of a secure and apolitical career that you are having, it will be quite admirable on the part of Dr Chee Soon Juan to be able to raised two kids - despite his public political position with the accompanying financial hardships, and his entanglement with the Law.

One will then have to ask, what is the real excuse in the other Singaporeans of Dr Chees generation in not having children ?

No, the suggestion of having babies to help you find relief from sinus is not intended to be a light hearted comment.

An ENT Specialist, from Singapore General Hospital, once informed me that sinus is also a symptom of mental stress, and may not necessarily be inflicted by some genetic, nor a physical defect in the nose.

Having a baby (and more) can be quite a refreshing experience, with the fresh smell of a new born filling the environment that can never be imitated, and is itself a disinfectant as new born rarely even get mosquito bites.