Give with one Right Hand, Take back with two Lefts

last SG · 2004-01-19T16:20:58+00:00

Congratulations again, for a very educated analysis that presumably did not take too much effort on your part, which seems to reflect your signature cynicism...

stupidissmart SG

About the question on ERS, I guess I try to ask the question in another way

First, tis ERS is not a trade for increase in GST. Gov has already admitted the rise in GST is to filled up the lost in revenue made from cutting the tax of the rich corporate. They never made a point tat we r getting off better after the GST raise and ERS. They have made many emphasis tat ERS is only meant to "cushion" the impact on the rise of GST. Is true, ERS is just a lollipop. There is not argument tat Gov will earn more from the rise in GST. With these facts in mind, thinkloud ask this question,

Since the rise of GST is already imminent, isn't it better for Gov to give us ERS so as to cushion the impact on us ?

Why do u think everybody is not aware tat 400-500 cash is not going to help us much in the long run Confused

[ Neo ] SG

Apologize for side tracking a little

Stupidismart :

The having a temporary cushion package before the arrival of any new incoming impacts isnt exactly the optimum solution or buffer to any cost increment trend, my fellow forumite.

Ideally, there should be a strive for better alternatives that does not better products or services, at the main expense of the dominant low and middle income clusters everytime cost production factors or profit bottoms decline.

But at current, we do appear to have very little of them in action.

thinkloud2004 SG

To ST and Atobe

You are right ST....I was wrong to associate this with KTV singing. It should be a concert - with a few hundred participants looking at one singer practically holding on the microphone throughout. And like any other concerts, an occasional guest star is always welcome. Somewhat different lyrics albeit harping on the same tune - a refreshing change no doubt.

- since when have these words gotten a new meaning??

Look back at all the posts by Atobe and tell me whether the first 8 words in your sentence is sincere and honest. I am sure the original intention of this forum is not like this - one single writer splashing the pages with unabated skewed presentations of what he claims to be "education" and "awareness", occasionally punctuated with approving nods by a few others (not more than 4
in the last count). Do you call that "attracting so much fire?"

On the subject of fairness and justice. How do you measure? Who is the judge? Would we have been better off if things were done otherwise? Why didn't you say so before things were done? Are people happy? Lets not speculate as you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. We shall have to
wait till Polling Day.

<People do not oppose for the sake of opposing, just because the Ruling Party has to be knocked off it's throne, despite what they may like to egoistically claim (please, we have better things to do). The truth is, some of the way things are done make people go "what the..."> -

but my interpretation of Atobe's scripts thus far says otherwise.
Again we are entitled to our opinions so let the rest of the audience decide.

I have stated my agenda and I believe I have achieved my objective. In the process, I have leaned too much to the PAP and this may have incurred your wrath. I am ready for that when I decided to play the "devil's advocate". Your agenda is different from Atobe's and I do not wish to find out more. I respect your decision to be "unplugged" but I can remained "plugged" if I so wish, can't I?

You may not like this one but my solution is ---- if you don't have an
alternative or solution, shut up and accept things as they are (sorry if I offend more people, but then how?) If you want to say something about somebody, give him a chance to reply. What the audience wants is to witness a debate and then pass their verdict, not entertained by a duet who melodiously croons in harmony.

A political forum or a concert? The choice is yours.

Happy Monkey Year
thinkloud2004

Atobe SG

Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
To ST and Atobe

You are right ST....I was wrong to associate this with KTV singing. It should be a concert - with a few hundred participants looking at one singer practically holding on the microphone throughout. And like any other concerts, an occasional guest star is always welcome. Somewhat different lyrics albeit harping on the same tune - a refreshing change no doubt.

[b] - since when have these words gotten a new meaning??

Look back at all the posts by Atobe and tell me whether the first 8 words in your sentence is sincere and honest. I am sure the original intention of this forum is not like this - one single writer splashing the pages with unabated skewed presentations of what he claims to be "education" and "awareness", occasionally punctuated with approving nods by a few others (not more than 4
in the last count). Do you call that "attracting so much fire?"

On the subject of fairness and justice. How do you measure? Who is the judge? Would we have been better off if things were done otherwise? Why didn't you say so before things were done? Are people happy? Lets not speculate as you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. We shall have to
wait till Polling Day.

<People do not oppose for the sake of opposing, just because the Ruling Party has to be knocked off it's throne, despite what they may like to egoistically claim (please, we have better things to do). The truth is, some of the way things are done make people go "what the..."> -

but my interpretation of Atobe's scripts thus far says otherwise.
Again we are entitled to our opinions so let the rest of the audience decide.

I have stated my agenda and I believe I have achieved my objective. In the process, I have leaned too much to the PAP and this may have incurred your wrath. I am ready for that when I decided to play the "devil's advocate". Your agenda is different from Atobe's and I do not wish to find out more. I respect your decision to be "unplugged" but I can remained "plugged" if I so wish, can't I?

You may not like this one but my solution is ---- if you don't have an
alternative or solution, shut up and accept things as they are (sorry if I offend more people, but then how?) If you want to say something about somebody, give him a chance to reply. What the audience wants is to witness a debate and then pass their verdict, not entertained by a duet who melodiously croons in harmony.

A political forum or a concert? The choice is yours.

Happy Monkey Year
thinkloud2004 [/b]

What ?

No more attempt to reply to the postings that have responded to all your bombastic efforts to defend the Ruling Party, but preferring to take another wide sweep of generalised and unsubstantiated claims ? Surely, your tertiary training demand more to justify your position even to be a 'Devil's Advocate' ?

Is this the best that you can come up with, as your departing shot ?

A friendly advise - it is unwise and dangerous for you to make a broad stroke of the brush that can tarnish a wide range of people who have placed some value in this Political Corner of sgForum.

Surely you must be more mature to realise this desparate and bankrupt effort of yours to defend your Political Idols ?

During the Year of the Goat, we have to deal with sheeps that prefer to be senselessly herded in any directions - as long as there is grass to fatten them, they will happily remain blind with the wool over their eyes, even as the rest is sheared off their body.

With the beginning of the Year of the Monkey, it looks like the sheep will give way to the antics of the monkeys.

Are we going to see a bunch of obediently dull minded monkeys to be kept performing to the tune of the Master Music Player, so as to be assured of bananas and peanuts to be paid ?

Are you aware of how the monkey is trained to work as 'coconuts pickers' and paid only peanuts, while the master walked to the bank with the profits from the sale of the coconuts ?

If this Political Corner is to be a KTV, so be it, we have at least begun to sing our hearts out, and with practise had built our lungs, voices, and confidence to appear on a bigger stage if need be.

At least we will not have our skulls cracked open by those with a penchant to 'crack skulls' on a knee jerk reaction.

All those obedient monkeys will have to beware of the 'skull crackers' - as they have also an appetite for 'Monkeys' Brains'.

A word of advise, Thinkloud2004, thinking loudly serves no purpose - as when one's thinking is so loud it can affect the brain, which then cannot distinguish the fine differences in sound quality.

You will then only hear all the sound as a cacophony of noises, and with no expert ability to discern the quality of the noises that can be appreciated as New Music.

You may wish to relook at the opinions of a Senior Civil Servant, with more years of experience than your upstart attitude have shown, and perhaps draw from his observation before attempting to try to put your feet into some shoes that are definitely too many sizes bigger.

Visit the thread 'Singapore Bigger than PAP - shouldn't it be ?' and if you care to include the Senior Civil Servant as our Chorus Master in this KTV room, we will know how much more to expect from obedient monkeys that only perform when music is played by the Master.

Definitely a Happy Monkey Year to you - beware of your Skull Cracking Master with a penchant for Monkey's Brains, and who expertly practise the fine art of "Filling the Stomach, to Dull the Brain".

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

The lengths to which people can go to justify having their uniqueness and an individual trampled and willing submit to grossly unfair procedures with the faint reward of peanuts never fails to amaze me.

And yes, this forum is no assualt on the PAP, I don't have a bone to pick with them for being white men, the bone is picked with the way things they are doing. Apparently if you have a problem with that then I assume that if you were in Germany in 1942 and were aware of the concentration camps, they should be condoned as part of being obedient and not raising questions to the ruling party. This kind of dull brained "live and let's not think" unquestioning obedience to "they've helped us rise" authority mentality to life cost 6 million Jews and other minorities their lives.

After all which German of your kind would question the nazi party, having afforded them a comfortable life and brought Germany out of the mud? Maybe you would go as far as to argue that there is no judge to justify the injustice of gettos and concentration camps?

The PAP is certainly nowhere near on par with the Nazis when it comes to evil, but claiming such a clean, transparent and orderly democratic system, I'm amazed they think scrunity and critism of their ways can be destablizing and contray to democracy...

Ahem, if you think this is a KTV of concert, have you been aware that you are probably a member of a much larger, far more nonsensical... and nosier concert of the ruling party? Apparently, noise, and not sense matters to you.

But then again, I'm hardly surprised of the crass labels coming from your overheated gun barrels, after all, you do show us that you have done your homework in following the ways of your idols, when unable to outreason with logic, switch to vague, sweeping and of course, irrevelant labels sung ad nausuem to discredit your opponent without ever addressing the real issue.

While I may not agree with what you are saying, I will certainly defend to the death your right to say it, it appears that your approach is to take your ruling idol's approach of "I may not agree with what you are saying... I will put to the death your right to say it"

thinkloud2004 SG

Dear Mr Atobe

Where is your proposed solution ? You do not have one and all you have done is to pick on my other lines and make paragraphs out of it.

First you made a mockery of my occupation and then passed insinuations on my education. Then you talked about my age and username with disdain. Even the monkeys are brought into the picture. Obviously your replies are centered around my profile in a bid to discredit me and evade the real issue we are supposed to be debating on. Aren't you guilty of character assassinations, something that you once openly deplored.

Your message is plain and simple to the audience, "I am now telling you all what you should know about LKY and this Government. You had better listen and agree or else I whack you". Your ultimate aim is to kick out the PAP Government but you don't know how so the next best thing is to kick anybody who supports them. And those who are highly educated or holding high posts deserve a bigger kick because they are the high-end product of this Government.

What if I tell you I am not a lecturer?
Wouldn't all your insults and innuendos against me be null and void? Or it doesn't matter - so long as it is somebody saying something in support of the Government, he is guilty in your own trial court. Obviously you have had suffered much under this regime and are using this forum to get back at the system which you otherwise cannot. A few supportive voices will be a bonus and any spoilsport must be hammered flat.

I am not interested in what you state yourself to be in your profile. It is through your postings that I decide who and what you are. In any case, your naivety and mentality to see things at face value demonstrates that you cannot discern scenarios beyond what you think is gospel truth, probably blinded by mindless hatred or severe neurosis. Blame the Government for that. Little wonder you are easily deceived by the mammoth figures that you gleefully churned out. And little wonder you can only hide in this place and with a pseudonym, pour out your contempt and disgust knowing full well that the very people you are alleging against cannot and do not reply you.

Go back to your circle game and hopefully the "Game Over" button is not lit. Or continue with your solo performance. However, the audience will not share your sentiments as enthusiastically as before because like me, many are quite confirmed who they suspect you to be. No encore for you. And my job is done.

I shall now visit the other threads you recommended. I sure hope it is not another solo performance concert like this one.

thinkloud2004

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

It's amazing how you can turn a simple statement into a multi-paragraph of disconnected gibberish, basically let's hear your cry broken down into several simple points:

1) You are insignificant

2) Any form of critique of The Party stems from hate/neurosis/(insert vice)

3) If you don't agree with me you are a KTV singer or any other childish label I can think of.

4) It's not about reason, logic, or justic here, it's about rethoric.

5) Don't even think of rocking the boat as you are all too small.

Okay... I got it...

Sadly I must say that Adobe's supposed "sliming" of your character is hardly unwarranted, illogical, or unjustified.

While you may criticize people who question the figurative status quo as SOBS tellers, KTV singers and Abobe worshippers which I obviously disagree with, the most amazing thing I see is how a person who claims to be intelligent, articuate or logical enough to be worthy of posting here (and believe me the standards aren't so high), are promoting the pratice of switching off and allowing The Party to do our thinking for us as any resistence must be ill-intentioned.

Have you questioned if The Party's resistence to implementing change was ill-intentioned and not carried out with the people's interest in mind?

Finally you have been blasting us for well, blasting The Party, prehaps you would be so kind as to indulge us in telling us in all the raised issues, where have they done RIGHT or JUSTICE? Has the critique here been unfair to them? Or is your beef with them simply because they are mammoth and not because they are actually untrue?

Nazi concentration camps are mammoth as well, do we look the other way and pretend they don't exist because they are too big and bad? Do we accuse those who insist on seeing the truth for it is as paranoid nazi-haters?

If you think that all these "mammoth" figures on the issues revealed are just SOBS, you demostrate an nearly incomprehensible ability for apathy to the budern the typical Singaporean suffers in working for a country he has no say in the fate in, and is constantly indebted to for no other reason because he was born in it. Do we own our sucess to the PAP, or our forefathers? Are we just getting measured, tiny portions of the Singapore sucess pie and eating all the rubbish when things go bad while the upper class rides cushioning their backsides using our backs? You go think for yourself before you yell out on why some insignificant people are disgrunted...

KTVs, Concerts, showbiz, and whatever are irrevelent to me, what I want is the truth and reason. And if that truth and reason can be found in what you like to a concert, so be it. Better to know reason and truth in whatever way then to carry on in "dignified" ignorance.

Atobe SG

To my dear fellow Singaporean, 'thinkloud2004',
Trust that you will calm down, and not allow your thoughts to be louder to cloud your mind, to the extent that it block out the impressions received from your eyes, which result in forcing yourself to see only what your thoughts prefer.

Clearly now, it seems that either you are incapable of reading simple English from the posts of my reply, or it seems that in your anxiety - to wear the boots of a 'Devil's Advocate' to demolish my position - you simply cannot discern the 'trees from the forests'.

Will you revisit my post on Page 2 of this thread, dated 21 January 2004 · 03:46 AM ?

No one can help you in this forum, if you do not wish to, or simply cannot, absorb what has been printed in this sgForums.

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
First you made a mockery of my occupation and then passed insinuations on my education. Then you talked about my age and username with disdain. Even the monkeys are brought into the picture. Obviously your replies are centered around my profile in a bid to discredit me and evade the real issue we are supposed to be debating on. Aren't you guilty of character assassinations, something that you once openly deplored.

Have I avoided any issues that you have raised in your challenges to my postings ?

I believe that I have responded to nearly each and every oblique challenges that you have made, which simply scraped the issues at a tangent, and which you have not made any contributions to show how I have been wrong in the issues raised.

Your efforts had been incredulous and I would have let it passed had your profile indicated that you are a STUDENT.

Since you claimed to be a LECTURER, and from the contents of your approach to the issues raised, it was a welcome challenge to engage you in an exchange of your position that you have taken.

Not only did I bring up the 'Monkeys' that have been trained so well to pluck coconuts for the wage of peanuts, while the Masters laughed their way to the bank with the profits from the sale of the coconut; you had missed the wool that were shorn off the sheep, ignorant to the event, as the wool have been deliberately left to cover their eyes.

As much as you have made an effort to bait me and to demolish my position, so as to discredit me as another useless opposition supporter, surely you will allow me the same privilege that you have claimed for yourself to be a 'Devil's Advocate' so as to expose my 'hidden Agenda' - as you have claimed ?

Are you now taking this right of response from me in the same form that you prefer ?

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Your message is plain and simple to the audience, "I am now telling you all what you should know about LKY and this Government. You had better listen and agree or else I whack you". Your ultimate aim is to kick out the PAP Government but you don't know how so the next best thing is to kick anybody who supports them. And those who are highly educated or holding high posts deserve a bigger kick because they are the high-end product of this Government.

No one can help you if you insist on reading more then what you see.

If you prefer to see the shadows behind each alphabet that form the words printed, you may end up seeing ghosts in every shadow, as you walk in the streets even on a bright sunny day.

As an individual, can I actually kick anybody out, much more the eminently entrenched and more omnipotent PAP Government, when more illustrious figures - that included the famous David Marshall - have failed ?

You write too highly of me and my abilities.

Certainly, it is a FREE Right for each and every Singaporean to be involve in the politics of Singapore; this right is available FREE on the day of birth of each and every Singaporean born in Singapore, or abroad and registered as a Singapore Citizen.

It is the FREE Right to be involve in Singapore Politics that the Ruling Party has claimed to be a Privilege, so as to allow themselves the exclusive opportunity to dispense only to those whom they feel will not affect their political security.

The process of being involved is to be awaken to the issues, understanding the issues, debate and discuss, research into the events for facts and truth, and offer alternative solutions for the present and future interests of Singapore.

Surely you do not believe that it is the preordained and exclusive right of the PAP to be the ONLY Political Party to be involved with politics for the interest of Singapore ?

Surely, as an educated person, you will NOT believe that it is the preordained and exclusive rights of those few families with 'WH' labels to be in a position of perpetual political power ?

Surely, you DO NOT BELIEVE that it is the exclusive turf of the PAP to have the interest of Singapore at heart, and that any opposing views different from that of the PAP is treachery to Singapore ?

Those who are higher educated ought to be kicked if they can only behave like sheeps being herded unthinkingly by the Shepherds in any directions as long as there are green pastures, and ignorant to the fact that the Shepherds is enriching themselves from the wool that is shorn off their bodies.

Those who are higher educated ought to be kicked, when they silently and willingly accept their role as dull minded monkeys dancing to the tune of the musicians profitting from their labor in exchange for peanuts.

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
What if I tell you I am not a lecturer?
Wouldn't all your insults and innuendos against me be null and void? Or it doesn't matter - so long as it is somebody saying something in support of the Government, he is guilty in your own trial court. Obviously you have had suffered much under this regime and are using this forum to get back at the system which you otherwise cannot. A few supportive voices will be a bonus and any spoilsport must be hammered flat.

If you are not a lecturer, why claim to be one in your profile ?

A zebra cannot change its stripes, and even if born again, it will have those same zebra stripes that is unique and exclusive to this breed of animal - even if the pattern may vary to each zebra.

I will welcome your effort if you will engage me on points of issues raised, and not try to play with innuendoes or making obvious attempt to bait me further without engaging on issues raised ?

You have not responded to any single issues that I have raised, which you brushed off as 'Dirty Linen'; and which only resulted in your ardent effort to defend the Ruling Party and the Government - by using cliches used by the Ruling Party and Government to discredit anyone daring to stand up to offer alternative views.

It was your own admission that you prefer to take on the role of a 'Devil's Advocate' to discredit my postings and ultimately my personna.

Did I try to whack you into silence, or am I simply returning you the same favor that you have extended to me ?

Does participation in this sgForums and taking the opposing views indicate that I have suffered much under this regime ?

Atobe SG

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
I am not interested in what you state yourself to be in your profile. It is through your postings that I decide who and what you are. In any case, your naivety and mentality to see things at face value demonstrates that you cannot discern scenarios beyond what you think is gospel truth, probably blinded by mindless hatred or severe neurosis. Blame the Government for that. Little wonder you are easily deceived by the mammoth figures that you gleefully churned out. And little wonder you can only hide in this place and with a pseudonym, pour out your contempt and disgust knowing full well that the very people you are alleging against cannot and do not reply you.

How can you know of my profile, when I prefer to be non-descript ?

It amazes me when you pronounced that you wish to expose my REAL AGENDA, when you have no inkling of what or where you are heading with your efforts.

Have you bitten off more then you can chew ?

Education helps a person to think, to discern facts from falsehood.

Facts cannot be made up, they are in the figures.

Errors in interpreting the facts can happen, by different interpretations to those same set of figures - as had happened when the NUS Lecturers clashed with the Minister of Manpower on the highly publicised report concerning the high numbers of foreign workers being employed in Singapore during this time of high unemployment of Singaporean.

Prove me wrong on those figures that I claimed to be facts, and you will have served your privileged position of being a highly educated Singaporean.

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
Go back to your circle game and hopefully the "Game Over" button is not lit. Or continue with your solo performance. However, the audience will not share your sentiments as enthusiastically as before because like me, many are quite confirmed who they suspect you to be. No encore for you. And my job is done.

Perhaps you think that this discourse is but a game, which will explain for your callous approach in handling the issues raised.

Unfortunately, you have overlooked that this is not a solo performance, as you have ignored ST; and those whom you claimed as my 'audience' will already show that this cannot be a solo effort on my part.

You will have to be in a clear mind to discern this simple reality, or you will continuously contradict yourself.

If you believe this is merely a game, then it will be easier for you to press the 'EXIT' button instead of waiting for the 'GAME OVER'.

continuing post by thinkloud2004:
I shall now visit the other threads you recommended. I sure hope it is not another solo performance concert like this one.

thinkloud2004

The thread 'SINGAPORE BIGGER THEN PAP - shouldn't it be ?' will be a SOLO performance, from a retired Senior Civil Servant.

Hopefully, you will dig deeper on the issues raised by him, and perhaps prove him wrong with some research, and not simply jump into your own conclusions based on your limited exposure to the events of the last forty years.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

It's also interesting to note that being the "devil's advocate" results in you losing your soul.

But in your desperation to win over Adobe, you apparently do not mind giving up your human capacity and right for free thought, will, political involment and of course, your soul.

But I'm not sure yelling nonsense at higher and higher levels is going to cut it in here, we deal with facts here, not conspiracy theories and marxist plots to overthrow the govt.

If you have no response for the facts and issues raised, I suggest you salvage what little intellectual intergity you have left, turn off your heavy metal concert, and retreat to quiet place where you can form proper thoughts for once...

groundnut SG

WHY ACCUSE IN THIS FORUM? This forum is hosted by a Singapore-registered company. Any such accusations doesn't go down well with the PAP Evil or Very Mad govt.

You will get the Exclamation forum-hosting company into unnecessary trouble. Why do you not post in foreign-hosted websites? At least, the PAP govt will not be able to influence your web-host at all.

Happy New Year. Smile

Farmer Brown SG

Greetings all, I have read with much enthusiasm the tirades between atobe/st and thinkloud. I must say both sides have put up a colourful display of thoughts as well as language I sometimes wish my fellow singaporeans could produce more often. Watching from a neutral stance, i would now pose this question to both parties: What would be the next steps to take to bring this issue to the voters?

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of watching people like u guys not get their voices heard when they need to be. But i must admit that watching you guys debate with much enthusiasm comforts me to know that not all the sheep in the herd are without thought. Kudos to all!![/quote]

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Since when did Singapore-owned company = PAP-owned company? The day when Singaporeans have to run to forum avenues to raise questions, that'll be the day we have the internet banned.

Atobe SG

What is a 'Forum' ?

From the meaning given in a dictionary, 'Forum' is a place or medium for open discussion, judicial inquest (as held in the days of the Public Forum in Ancient Roman times), a public meeting or presentation of ideas that will involve discussions, and with active audience participation.

From the same dictionary, 'Accuse' is to make announcement of a charge of wrong doing or error or short coming.

From the same dictionary, 'Criticism' is the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other works.

Is there a difference between 'Accusations' and 'Criticism' ?

Does any criticism goes well with anyone in Singapore that has a thin skin ?

Shall we be clear of what your post will mean, as by the 'tone' of your use of the word 'Accuse' - accompanied by the following text of your post - it insinuates I need to fear and to have concern for the host of this sgForums due to my postings having some degree of malice, ill intent, evil, enmity, grudge, hatred, hatefulness, hostility.

I find your position to be odd, that I should post my thoughts on issues concerning OUR SINGAPORE in a foreign hosted web-site, when our Singapore Government have strongly objected to Foreigners interfering in Local Politics.

Who do you intend to get into bigger trouble ?

I find it strange in your line of thinking and wonder if the zebra has reincarnate in spirit into another form ?

Atobe SG

Support and EDUCATE the main personnalities of the existing Opposition Parties.

If one cannot even bear to talk to them without losing one's selfrespect after having condemned the Opposition, one can still ENGAGE them in debate so as to transfer the same information to the Main Personalities of the Opposition.

This is the best solution IF the PRESENT TIME is not ripe to set up a New Political Party - as to be effective as an Opposition Party, one must have the Financial Strength to prepare for an onslaught of legal suits that MUST be expected from the Ruling Party, one must have like minded persons to form an A-Team; one must definitely have a strong supportive staff in the areas of Research, Administrative, Organisational, Legal, and Managerial.

Farmer Brown SG

Seems Atobe's got his idea of setting up something. As u can tell by my words in this and other threads, i;m moving in the direction of supporting the rise of an opposition that will challenge (not topple) the dominance of the PAP on the political front.

Count me in if something comes up yah?

thinkloud2004 SG

It has been a wonderful holiday. The last few days that I been around this little island of ours, I witnessed cheers, fulfilment and happiness everywhere. Despite the rain, the mood remained undampened - for locals and foreigners alike - all basking in the exhilarating condition created by Singaporeans under the able leadership of .......ooops!

Now that I have a little leisure time, let me inject some provoking thoughts to this otherwise mundane circle game dominated by a few.

To Mr Atobe - I think I am finished with you. If your definiton of fire power and ammunition is to pass insults and innuendos on your opponent's occupation, education, age (genuine or otherwise) and even his username, then I admit that I do not have such fire power. Unless and until you come up with a solution that you think will improve the lives of the population at large, I have nothing to debate with you.

To Mr ST - You have deviated from your usual relatively mild philosophical stance. Obviously my remarks against Mr Atobe has had reflected aptly on you just as his remarks had hit on the educated and successful. Your faint spark of an "Option B" has been extinguished following your rather unceremonious outburst. It is only natural that any salesman be fuming mad when his potential customer is dissuaded from buying by a third person who offers a
second opinon on the merchandise. More angry when the item being offered is but a recycled product and the customer is so close to parting his money. At least the desperate salesman has something concrete to offer. What do you have? Thank goodness I am not engaged in a coffee shop talk with you or you would have resort to expletives just to make me agree with you, similar to the Ah Pek who defends with his life (or whatever is left) any challenge to his life-long belief that "Pay And Pay is no good".

If anything, this concert has grown - in the audience size as well as the virtual performers. Mr Atobe had called in the animals of Animal Farm. He then invited the monkeys on the first day of CNY. The last I saw was a zebra galloping into the scene. As for you, you have summoned the American Infidels, the NAZI troops and the MATRIX characters. What next? The United Nations? Nobody told me that Animal Planet and Cinemax have merged. Anyway, I believe it will be plenty of fun and excitment for the audience. I shall now leave you two with your show business and split the profits of your merged entity, if any. As for me I have more meaningful things to do than to hammer on the keyboard day and night.

As for newcomers who just joined this audience, do spend sometime on the thread "Singaporeans are fools" originated by Relevation. That was how this started. May you be the better judge.

thinkloud2004

Atobe SG

Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
It has been a wonderful holiday. The last few days that I been around this little island of ours, I witnessed cheers, fulfilment and happiness everywhere. Despite the rain, the mood remained undampened - for locals and foreigners alike - all basking in the exhilarating condition created by Singaporeans under the able leadership of .......ooops!

Now that I have a little leisure time, let me inject some provoking thoughts to this otherwise mundane circle game dominated by a few.

To Mr Atobe - I think I am finished with you. If your definiton of fire power and ammunition is to pass insults and innuendos on your opponent's occupation, education, age (genuine or otherwise) and even his username, then I admit that I do not have such fire power. Unless and until you come up with a solution that you think will improve the lives of the population at large, I have nothing to debate with you.

To Mr ST - You have deviated from your usual relatively mild philosophical stance. Obviously my remarks against Mr Atobe has had reflected aptly on you just as his remarks had hit on the educated and successful. Your faint spark of an "Option B" has been extinguished following your rather unceremonious outburst. It is only natural that any salesman be fuming mad when his potential customer is dissuaded from buying by a third person who offers a
second opinon on the merchandise. More angry when the item being offered is but a recycled product and the customer is so close to parting his money. [b]At least the desperate salesman has something concrete to offer. What do you have? Thank goodness I am not engaged in a coffee shop talk with you or you would have resort to expletives just to make me agree with you, similar to the Ah Pek who defends with his life (or whatever is left) any challenge to his life-long belief that "Pay And Pay is no good".

If anything, this concert has grown - in the audience size as well as the virtual performers. Mr Atobe had called in the animals of Animal Farm. He then invited the monkeys on the first day of CNY. The last I saw was a zebra galloping into the scene. As for you, you have summoned the American Infidels, the NAZI troops and the MATRIX characters. What next? The United Nations? Nobody told me that Animal Planet and Cinemax have merged. Anyway, I believe it will be plenty of fun and excitment for the audience. I shall now leave you two with your show business and split the profits of your merged entity, if any. As for me I have more meaningful things to do than to hammer on the keyboard day and night.

As for newcomers who just joined this audience, do spend sometime on the thread "Singaporeans are fools" originated by Relevation. That was how this started. May you be the better judge.

thinkloud2004
[/b]

It looks as if the Year of the Monkey will be as mischevious as it is predicted to be, especially when it is said to be from the 'metal' element - according to the Chinese Zodiac and Astrology.

Mischiefs can be created, especially when one does not wish to engage but prefer to skirt around the issues, playing with words, boxing with the imagined shadows.

You continue to ask for a reply to your challenge, and this will be the third time that I am pointing you to one of my reply to the MANY ISSUES that you refused to engage in.

You have asked for solutions - I have responded, but you refused to engage. Will you revisit my post on Page 2 of this thread, dated 21 January 2004 · 03:46 AM - or you just do not have the expertise to get deeper into the issues ?

Why 'skip around the boxing ring' and continue to bear the brunt of my stinging responses that expose the weakness of your feeble efforts to knock me off my post ?

Is this the best you can perform trying to fill the shoes of a 'Devil's Advocate' ?

Perhaps you need a few more years of learning from the Senior Civil Servant, as you do not seem to have picked up anything from his published views in 'Singapore is Bigger than the PAP - shouldn't it be ?'

Now that you have rested over the Lunar New Year holidays, will you go back to the posts that await you as mentioned in this thread, as well as in the posts by Relevation in his thread - 'Singaporean are Fools' ?

Or do you wish to continue to simply make only snide remarks that are empty in substance and content, and simply will not dare to engage with any response to the Real Issues that you have protested so much about ?

Patience is in abundance while waiting for your intelligent response, if any is forthcoming.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Ditto.

I was about the type a long response, but why tell a person something so obvious twice?

Amazingly, you are still wondering why I have no new "products" to entertain you with. Apparently it hasn't been apparent to you that you have failed to even touch any of the issues raised and are now asking for more? That isn't going to cut it dude.

I have already presented what I had to present, and you have been quite sediously and tediously avoiding the issue, and to quote Adobe, "boxing with shadows" instead of facing your opponents head on. I find it quite amazing to you that the S.O.B.S of injustice, misplaced trust, organized repression and exploitation not worthy of addressing just because they are the "same old story".

Do you not represent the demographic of entertainment seekers with hypershort attention spans... with no real bearing with life but waiting for their next quick fix to allow them to get their shots off and feel important? In short, a hot head filled so full of hot air but with nothing solid to offer. A true rebel without a cause.

And by the way vulgarities are not quite my style, I prefer dealing with truth, logic and reason something of which you patently fail to apply in your responses, choosing to draw flowery abstract pictures to paint your counterparts into a frame of your understanding, but I'm afriad it dosen't work that way.

Maybe it is time for you to reconsider your style of debating here? I'm afraid unlike govt. backed debates, there is a level playing field here and selling flowerly visual paintings to belittle your opponents, while a time honoured tradition with The Party, does little good here, especially when there is a ton of evidence flying agains't you.

I encourage you to revisit my previous posts, they have already replied to your responses by far. Amazingly, you have completely failed to respond to any of them. Wait.. why not I give you a concession? Unlike you, I would not be as to be so unkind as to demand an answer from you, those the questions I have raised require an answer, could could work on Adobe's points first.

Conversely, you could contuine to employ your stick-in-ears-and-sing-same-"I cannot hear you, you are a dork" ad nausem, but it's no great intellectual loss to Singapore here.

oldbreadstinks SG

first animals, then salesmen Rolling Eyes ok whats next?

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