Leon Trotsky...wat do U guyz think?

Wish SG

Seeking your opinions on this guy who I consider as one of the most tragic figures of the 20th century.

What would the world be today if he is the one instead of Stalin who succeeded Lenin as the leader of USSR.

Atobe SG

Marxist ideas of Communal Socialism - which is the simplest form in describing "Communism" - is basic and unpractical, making it pure idealism suitable for phylosophical debates only.

Lenin and Trotsky tried to make it applicable in Russian society, given that the common Russian Citizens or the Working Class were largely neglected by the Upper Class or Aristocratic Society, who were largely indulging in the Tsar (Russian King).

While Lenin was the advocate of Marxist ideas of Communism, Trotsky was the organiser. Both were sent into exile when they tried to introduce Marxist ideas in a Russia that was ruled by bureaucrats issuing edicts purported to be from the Imperial Palace of the Tsar. It was during their exile that Trotsky met Stalin.

Lenin was the Number One Man, while Trotsky was his Second in Command, and was left with the responsibility as the People's Commisar for Military and Naval Affairs - and was responsible in building up the Red Army.

It was with the defeat of the Russian Imperial Navy - in the Russo-Japan War - that led to the downfall of the Tsarist Imperial Rule, and the revolution of the common Russian Citizens.

With the downfall of the Russian Royalty, Russia was left in disarray, with confusion setting deeper when Lenin died.

A power struggle emerged between Trotsky and Stalin, with Trotsky pursuing the pure political idealism of Marxist ideas being implemented, while Stalin led a second revolution of the bureaucrats to solve the practical problems facing Russia.

Stalin won the day with the ruthless efficiency of bureacracy, and wiped out the idealism of Trotsky's implementation of Marxism in Russian society.

There lies the fate of politicians, who set their visions on the wrong path, and end up in the scrap books of history.

The same story line seems to be repeated in the Singapore experience when the PAP split into two camps, with the extreme socialist elements leaving the Ruling Party to form the Barisan Socialist to pursue the purest socialism for the Singapore Citizens.

Those that remained in the PAP continue to rule with "Stalinist" efficiency and ruthlessness in dealing with opposition - (political and commercial), and moved events in Singapore.

It is fortunate that Singapore is a small place that makes political control easier than in a bigger piece of land mass that stretch over several time zones, and also with Singapore located in a strategic point that allow for trade and commerce, and a vital political outpost that allow it to capitalize in the relations with bigger powers - all of which helped to make Singapore a success story.

For further read, visit the following:

http://www.trotsky.net/

http://www.fbuch.com/leon.htm

Essential Readings to understand Trotskyism:
http://www.weisbord.org/Trotskyism.htm

Trotsky The Prophet Debunked :
http://www.worldsocialism.org/trotsky.htm

BillyBong SG

Unfortunately, his tragic demise came at the supposed hands of Stalin's hired assassin who plowed an ice pick into his head.

A destardly method of eliminating arch-rivals...to think he actually showed great compassion and whispered to his bodyguards not to kill his assassin.

Wish SG

Yeah Atobe. The cruel fact is that there is very little place for idealism to be sew into the fabric of politics. Trotsky, a gifted intellecture but a total novice in party politics was outmanuvered by the more cunning trio of Stalin, Kamenev and Zinoviev.
Stalin, wat a monster. But his ideas are indeed more practical and mange to solve day to day problems.(note: he borrowed lots of ideas from Trotsky.)

But these following questions keep bugging me.

1. If Trotsky's theory of permanant revolution was to take place, what would have happened? Taking into consideration that several european countries such as Germany and France were also experiencing the influrence of marxism.

2. Trotsky could be the one who would have prevented the Second World War.

I await your post.

Billybong, its indeed a tragic end for one of the greastest revolutionary who has dedicated his life to fight for the future of the proleteriat. Rumours has it that Stalin was jelous of Trotsky's itelligence that he specially instructed the assasin to struck at Trotsky's head.

Wish SG

Atobe, as for your comments on PAP, I have one word to say.
Its like chewing gum.

1. When you put the gum into your mouth to chew, its indeed sweet. (during the 60s)

2. You become numb from all the sweetness. The sensitivity of your taste buds is now only reactive towards sweetness. (during the 70s)

3. But its somewat a weird gum. Soon after it gets very sticky but it still retains its sweetness. ( during the 80s )

4. The gum started to lose its sweetness. But then U realized that the gums are stuck all over your mouth. U are having great difficult to get it out of your mouth. You can't talk from all the sticky stuff sealing your mouth so no one knows your pain. ( during the 90s)

5. Now this is a serious problem. You are trying all sorts of ways to get the stuff off your mouth. But you juz can't. U go to a top local doctor with big specs and request an operation. but the gum is so thick that no scrapel could cut it and no acid could melt it without damaging your mouth. The dotor is clueless but he tries very hard to help you but suddently he scrapel he is using was bounce back towards his face due to the rebounding nature of the gum and the doctor was hurt himself. Now its very serious... U are still trying to get the gum off your mouth. (during 00s ~ ??) Mr. Green

Atobe SG

Unfortunately, idealism is the spark that starts all actions whether in love, politics, or matters of commerce and industry.

Wild idealism is like wild fire and can be very damaging.

Idealism needs to be tampered with calm thoughts and discerning wisdoms from any limited experience of the Self.

Politics is like a chess game in real life, make the wrong move, and there will be little chance to recover unless another opportunity is afforded by another wrong move made, or generosity extended, by the opposite party.

Trotskys Theory of Permanent Revolution ? Nothing in Life ever remains static, and in Politics it will be even more necessary to be in constant evolution, for the fear of stagnation that can easily lead to self-degradation as a result of self-contentment, self-deception, or worse still, self-induced delusions of glory.

Mao Tse Tungs attempt at the Cultural Revolution was to put Chinas New Generation back onto the idealism of revolution which his generation was imbued with, to serve the glory of a New China free from Foreign Oppressions.

Unfortunately, the idealism was like a wild fire that spread uncontrolled and destroyed the fabric that was so carefully woven together. Fortunately, it did not destroy the foundation of China which is the Peoples Will to Do Better.

It is odd that in modern politics, supposedly Democratic States such as Singapore will view any effort to help the Proletariat as being "Communist" influenced; while in Communist States such as China and Vietnam, similar attempt to help the Proletariat will be seen as Reactionary since in both political systems, the State is supposed to be the Defender of the Proletariat.

Any unauthorised and individually organized effort to help the Proletarian Class will be seen as a challenge to the State.

Hitler was challenging the political establishment during his time, by being the champion of the Working Class, did he experiment with Marxism ?

He probably borrowed some ideas from Marx, bending it into his own Nazi philosophy.

Could Trotsky prevented WW-2 in any way ?

I wonder how anyone can divert Hitlers maniac ambition to be Napoleon

About your "chewing gum" - if you will allow me to add that in the '00 most of those - who started chewing the gum in the '60s - will now have dentures, and it will be almost impossible to eat if the chewing gum is removed with the dentures.

It was a smart move to start the people on "chewing gum" and get them "addicted" to it, so much so that despite the high cost of continuing to desire the "chewing gum", the people will still be willing to pay a "high price" for the unrealistic views that they have towards the "chewing gum".

The unrealistic views is due to the years of constant chewing that jolt the eyeballs from properly focussing on the real issues; and numbing the jaws to silence - which leads the promoters of the "chewing gum" to believe that all is well, and the trust remain intact, since there are no complaints or demonstrations against the "chewing gum".