escape from paradise

last SG · 2002-11-09T09:59:19+00:00

Are you implying that you knew about the events surrounding the supposed transfer of the properties at Holland Road ? Or are you implying that the "politics...

Atobe SG

Visit this site to loose your innocence.

Great website to make you grow up and see the real world as it truly is.

Click below:-

http://www.escapefromparadise.com

Xiao Long Nu SG

wow…....

jbharding SG

Thank you for your comments.

CX SG

nonsense. its not THAT unavailable… don’t exaggerate.

jbharding SG

Yor’re right. It was unavailable the morning (Singapore time) of Nov 2, and 3. Thanks.

Atobe SG

How did you figure that the book is still not available ?

How did you figure that this subject had appeared in this forum ?

Are you still a resident in Singapore ?

Are you not worried of being litigated in the Singapore Courts for the contents of the book ?

It is indeed remarkable that such an event can happen in this day and age in Singapore - the unilateral threats and pressure in banning the book, and the Sale of the Properties in Holland Road.

Good luck to you and your wife in your journey - and look forward to reading the list of casualties.

CX SG

i don't see any reason for the big hoo-ha...

is anybody actually THAT naive to believe that we truly live in paradise on earth?

come on... paradise was lost the day raffles set foot on the island in 1819.

Sg is certainly not what it seems. things happen under the table, stuff are swept under the carpet and injustice is just around the corner where u care to dig into it.

but tell me... which place isn't like that? of hand, i can think of many other places where the rule of law is bent to the whims and fancy of the rich and powerful.

what is the injustice of one vocal individual compared to the silent sufferings of the faceless thousands?

sure, Sg is good with facade... so maybe that's why people are exceptionally offended when they realize that they've been fooled all these years?

welcome to the real world. Twisted Evil

Atobe SG

"come on... paradise was lost the day raffles set foot on the island in 1819."

One man's dream is another man's illusion; likewise - one man's paradise is another man's hell hole.

For a system that boasts loudly to the world of its high standards of practises in all areas that it aspires to be "Numero UNO", we should be wary of our own internal practises that nullify these efforts.

Without checks and balances in the political system when any credible opposition with ability to stand up to the system is demolished; with the newspaper reporters only allowed to investigate petty events from its citizenry (Joo Chiat squabble or Jurong nude family news standard); with the claws of strong personality control over all institutions in the country; this will result in hidden abuses that will be heaped one upon the other.

It will result in the deterioration of standards that the early goals set for our country - as envisaged by those earlier group of founding fathers, who have struggled in and out of the system, and now passed on to paradise.

This paradise was not interpreted from the dreams of any one single personality.

It was made from the dreams of people who migrated from afar, some remain as the down trodden economic digits, others became power house tycoons, others in opposites side of politics, and some others became power house by their own judgement.

Is this the future paradise that we are working towards for ourselves and for our generations to come ?

Is this the final end that the "Stayers" will reap, in the current debate of "Stayers and Quitters" ?

CX SG

Originally posted by Atobe:

Without checks and balances in the political system when any credible opposition with ability to stand up to the system is demolished; with the newspaper reporters only allowed to investigate petty events from its citizenry (Joo Chiat squabble or Jurong nude family news standard); with the claws of strong personality control over all institutions in the country; this will result in hidden abuses that will be heaped one upon the other.

who's to blame? PAP for coming to power and refusing to leave? the opposition for being so inept? the policies of the gov't that has marginalized the opposition?

i say blame the 3 million voters who voted these fat cats into power in the first place. and lets them stay after every election. blame and kick yourselves for being so easily deceived by electoral rhetoric.

blame yourself for not stepping out and making yourself heard for fear of being clamped down like the rest.

blame yourselves for lacking the will and the courage to face change.

It will result in the deterioration of standards that the early goals set for our country - as envisaged by those earlier group of founding fathers, who have struggled in and out of the system, and now passed on to paradise.

This paradise was not interpreted from the dreams of any one single personality.

It was made from the dreams of people who migrated from afar, some remain as the down trodden economic digits, others became power house tycoons, others in opposites side of politics, and some others became power house by their own judgement.

romantic rhetoric... well said but what's your point? this paradise is intepreted from the dreams of one dominant personality who had the focus, the will and the brains to use the people around him to bring it about.

i'm not a big fan of him and i don't agree with many of his ideas but i would give him the benefit of a historical footnote. u can't deny him that.

Is this the future paradise that we are working towards for ourselves and for our generations to come?

Is this the final end that the "Stayers" will reap, in the current debate of "Stayers and Quitters" ?

that really depends if the 3 million+ voters are willing to do more than talk.

what have we done lately other than complain?

u can't say "i'll stay if they change!" that's cowardly. if staying means so much to us and the events happenning around us are so unbearable, then we should step out and bring change to make our stay worthwhile.

u want to be the passive majority that hates it but can't and don't want to do anything, then u're better off gone.

jbharding SG

1) The book was on sale at Kinokuniya. In Feb 2002, I telephoned them to see how things were going and they told me the book had been withdrawn from sale as "someone" had objected. It took me until July to finally locate a Kinokuniya manager who told me that Helen Yeo was the person who objected to the book.

2) I figured out that the book had appeared in this forum through our website access logs.

3) I am no longer a resident of Singapore, but live in Arizona.

4)I have no worry about being sued in the Singapore courts. There is nothing defamatory in the book. What we published on the website (after Helen Yeo's attack) was NOT in the book, but it is much worse for her. We held back in the book which was checked over by three US lawyers prior to publication.
Naturally, if Helen Yeo were to sue in Singapore, she would win. To collect a judgement, she would have to apply to the court in Arizona. She would then learn that WE have already filed a lawsuit against her in the US District Court of Arizona. Helen Yeo, if she appears legally in the US, would then have to face a jury trial in Arizona.

5) Yes, I am amazed that one person can unilaterally ban a book and have it thrown out of Singapore's National Library, as well. This may, however, backfire on Helen Yeo. The book has been read by CJ Yong, and three members of LKY's immediate family (so far as we know). Only Helen Yeo has objected.

6) Thanks for wishing us good luck, and we hope you enjoy reading the URL Escape from Paradise Body Count.

John

CenturionMBT SG

Wait a moment that damn book book is still found in all the National Libary branches in Singapore.So what makes you so sure it is totally banned?

I think you are simply out to give us a bad image.

jbharding SG

I am sorry for your remarks. Our book does not give a bad image to Singapore. My wife and co-author is very proud to be a native born citizen of Singapore.

Your statement that our book is still found in all the NLB branches is incorrect.

According to the National Library Website, only one copy of Escape from Paradise is found only at the National Reference Library under Restricted Distribution.

Originally, there were 25 copies available at NLB.

On 9 September, we received the following email from NLB -

Dear Mr Harding

Thank you for your feedback.

We regret any inconvenience caused over the labelling of the status of this publication as "Item not available for loan yet."

As mentioned by my colleague in the email dated 14 August, we confirm that this title is designated as a restricted publication. It has been removed from circulation and will not be considered for loan. This title's status in our Catalogue has since been updated to "For Restricted Use Only".

Although not for lending, it will be available for research and reference upon request of the customer at the National Reference Library.

Thank you.

Regards,

Prabhjit Singh,
Quality Service Management
National Library Board

Insofar as banning our book in the bookstores is concerned, please read Helen Yeos letter to me.

Helen Yeo is the person making the bad image for Singapore.

Atobe SG

Quote

"Originally posted by CX dd 5 November 2002

who's to blame? PAP for coming to power and refusing to leave? the opposition for being so inept? the policies of the gov't that has marginalized the opposition?

i say blame the 3 million voters who voted these fat cats into power in the first place. and lets them stay after every election. blame and kick yourselves for being so easily deceived by electoral rhetoric.

blame yourself for not stepping out and making yourself heard for fear of being clamped down like the rest.

blame yourselves for lacking the will and the courage to face change."

Should we blame the 3 million voters for voting the same "fat cats" into power, and let them stay after every election ?

In all fairness, the 3 million voters were often blackmailed by threats (subtle and explicit) of real and imaginery means; cajoled and bribed with political treats (e.g. upgrading, SGP Shares); and what else that has been unashamedly done to this population that is respected only during election time.

More importantly the 3 million voters are HELPLESS in being constantly relocated by absurd election boundaries that redefine the wards beyond logical comprehension and fairness, except to guarantee the political survival of one party rule.

Quote
"romantic rhetoric... well said but what's your point? this paradise is intepreted from the dreams of one dominant personality who had the focus, the will and the brains to use the people around him to bring it about.

i'm not a big fan of him and i don't agree with many of his ideas but i would give him the benefit of a historical footnote. u can't deny him that."

The danger of personality cult exist in every society - be it in Communist North Korea or an idiot government in Botswana.

In a society such as SGP, with a population of only 3 million (??), it is amazing that one single family can produce superior ace talents that is beyond the capacity of all other SGP families.

You hit the nail on the head, with the statement of "having the brains of using the people around him" but should also add "and discarding them with expediency when they are of no further use, and sworn to secrecy by the Official Act for the office that they have held".

In SGP, there do not seem to be any provisions for Official Archives to be opened for Public Scrutiny after a run out date and made freely accessible without restriction to any interested party - as in UK and the USA.

This will allow information if good governance of the country has been practised, and to be scrutinised by students and researches of Politics and Government for the sake of the development of a good political system for SGP.

The danger of having ONE strong brain over riding all opinions, is that when the brain decays, imitators will use the name of this BRAIN to continue the legacy despite its own ineptness.

What price can SGP afford to pay, before the ineptness scrape its abcess way to the surface ?

Feedback ? What Feedback ?

Quote
"that really depends if the 3 million+ voters are willing to do more than talk.

what have we done lately other than complain?

u can't say "i'll stay if they change!" that's cowardly. if staying means so much to us and the events happenning around us are so unbearable, then we should step out and bring change to make our stay worthwhile.

u want to be the passive majority that hates it but can't and don't want to do anything, then u're better off gone."

Brave talk ?

Instigation at best ?

Can action truly take any form in SGP ?

What has been the price paid by the few that surface beyond the political fray and succeed - even for those Opposition who managed to squeak into Parliament ?

Only muted SILENCE in awe or prudent fear of the DOMINATING Brain.

What price has been paid by those who struggle to speak the truth about events in Singapore, and remain in Singapore ?

If ONE personality or entity holds itself as the ONLY righteous and GOD sanctioned right to exist, and MANIPULATE the system to ensure its own perpetuity, something is dangerously developing that will in time result in this paradise being merely an illusion.

If we read the entire history of politics in SGP, from the fight for internal self-rule to independence, the right to freedom of speech and gathering, the right to a place for dignified treatment from the rulers towards the ruled - then it is best that we read also the book "Animal Farm" - (this "innocuous" book was banned or had restricted circulation imposed during the 1960's and up to the 1970's - one can only wonder why).

We should wait eagerly for future memoirs, as each of the founding fathers of SGP Politics write their OWN footnote for the sake of posterity.

It will be nice to see what other hidden skeletons remain in this tight SGP closet.

Certainly, the SGP electorate cannot be blamed for a system that is flawed to start with, when those whom they elect to office begin to fine tune the system to tighten its hold on the electorate.

Viper52 SG

Just a point to note. I can't remember the last time all of Singapore's eligible electorate voted in a GE (presidential vote notwithstanding). From what I know the figure being unofficially bandied about for the 2001 GE was 30% of the electorate voting. 3 million voters? Nowhere near, CX

The fault of the opposition for the FUBAR state they're in now? Maybe, but I think only the most blinkered among us here would put the blame for the state of the opposition on their own doorstep. They cannot be absolved of the blame, but at the same time you cannot say the there exists anywhere near a level playing field in Singapore.

Which of course, really makes one wonder that if the ruling party is as good as they are, why not make it a real fair fight, and "may the best man win"?

But then, we know better....

You said
blame yourself for not stepping out and making yourself heard for fear of being clamped down like the rest. Blame yourselves for lacking the will and the courage to face change.

Is that not being done here right now? Ineffective as here is, if theres a more effective means to do so, I will gladly.

u want to be the passive majority that hates it but can't and don't want to do anything, then u're better off gone.

I wanted to, but for

1) My constituency was not contested. It used to be a opposition hotbed but surprise surprise, it became a 5-man GRC last time round

2) The powers-that-be, using the extremely lame(understatement for want of a stronger word) excuse of post 9/11 terrorism fear, happily jumped on the chance and took away my(and all overseas Singaporean's) overseas vote. Just because I'm overseas pursuing a degree to contribute to my own, and hopefully my country's, well-being does not make me any less Singaporean or deserving of a vote than you or any other Singaporean.

CX SG

the oppsition did not get marginalised overnight. it is not necessary to get into a history lesson here but anyone here worth his salt will know how it eventually came about.

Viper52,
i agree with u... many wards are not contested because the opposition is weak. why is the opposition weak? because the pap has marginalised them over the years. how can they break out of it? by getting their act together and running in more wards. why don't they do that? because they're weak both financially and organisationally.

see the circular argument?

more to it... will u run for election under an opposition banner? Mr. Green i might not. but people are sorely needed to strengthen the opposition. would u?

Atobe,
you heard me right. i don't think he's a genius or some fantastic leader. i certainly do not subscribe to his personality cult and i still think that fat cat didn't ride the tiger Twisted Evil

his memoirs are biased beyond belief. its pure crap pretending to be the "historically" accurate account of a great man. memoirs and memories are not objective to begin with.

In all fairness, the 3 million voters were often blackmailed by threats (subtle and explicit) of real and imaginery means; cajoled and bribed with political treats (e.g. upgrading, SGP Shares); and what else that has been unashamedly done to this population that is respected only during election time.

i don't agree with that. grey-mail is no excuse. it boils down to one thing: what prices freedom? if a voter cares to sell his vote for cash and cheap lies, it reflects both on the voter and the party utilising such tactics.

i still say blame the people. they sold their vote, their freedom and their soul for cheap gains.

More importantly the 3 million voters are HELPLESS in being constantly relocated by absurd election boundaries that redefine the wards beyond logical comprehension and fairness, except to guarantee the political survival of one party rule.

that is true. no arguments there. has anyone seen lately how big marine parade grc is? Mr. Green

all i can say is, the people should remember. the issues facing us transcends electoral boundaries. the problem is primarily that the PAP redefines the boundaries every now and then and secondly, the people have short political memories.

i don't advocate activist action. it doesn't do anything but get u thrown in jail.

but the opposition is not providing a credible platform to unite the people's disgust for the fat cats. and again, we bring us back to the eternal circulr argument as above. why is the opposition weak? Twisted Evil

Atobe SG

Quote

originally posted by CX

"why is the opposition weak? because the pap has marginalised them over the years. how can they break out of it? by getting their act together and running in more wards. why don't they do that? because they're weak both financially and organisationally. "

CX,
Much of your views in your reply are the general frustration that is being felt by the ground.

However, the Opposition being weak is not entirely of their own doing.

1. The general fear is not without substance in SGP, when the GLCs is so pervasive in their existence, that a large number of the populace are employed in the GLCs.

2. Contribution to the Opposition funds above $2k (or is it $5k) will require the name of the contributor to be declared, and no cash for such amounts, only cheques.

3. Given the tenacious prosecution of the Government (a.k.a. Ruling Party) against ALL Opposition, who in the SGP Citizenry will openly dare to risk his own and his family economic survival that is tied up with the GLCs - (directly as an employee taking wages, or indirectly as a Contractor / Supplier to a GLC Company).

4. Without funding, how can the Opposition Party ever make any head way - with the negative rules developed and fear factor purposefully aroused, to the advantage of the Ruling Party and to the disadvantage of the Opposition.

This is the other circle that is not entirely the fault of the Opposition, nor the Electorate.

Atobe SG

Quote

Originally posted by CX

"his memoirs are biased beyond belief. its pure crap pretending to be the "historically" accurate account of a great man. memoirs and memories are not objective to begin with."

Unfortunately, most parts of his memoirs are accurate - like it or not.

The missing parts are probably the juciest parts that will never be exposed - those behind the scenes intrigues, and skeletons of mistakes made that will always stay in the closet.

It is not possible for anyone to be GOD and remain infallible for over four decades of active political life - let alone being in the thick of experimentation, as SGP finds its way out of so many road blocks. (According to the Genesis from the Old Testament of the Bible, even GOD had made the mistake of creating the snake, which tempted Eve, and condemned mankind and the snake to its present being).

The memoir is only unbelievable by not including records of mistakes made.

"

CX SG

you misunderstand... i did not mean to say historically inaccurate, but rather, unobjective. and by virtue of it being a memoir of an individual, it is necessarily biased.

i'm sure the chronology is correct. but how much credence can we give to his intepretation of the events if, like u say, there is no freedom of information act in Sg?

in the USA, u could be listening to the nixon tapes just as the poor man, may God rest his soul, is saying "i never said that!". (i've read a new york times article about a bunch of recently declassified nixon tapes Mr. Green 2 hour long harangue against jews, fags, drugs, etc, etc... in poor kissinger's presence)

you'll never get that here Smile i've talked about this before. the common perception then (a few months ago) expressed by pig ignorant posters was "isn't that already done???" DuH...

i still say we kick ourselves for having let them do this to us.

don't bother looking up towards the opposition candidates now. many are not who u wanna vote for anyway (would u vote chee???).

take it from the ground. the fat cats are there because the people are not aware enough, not politically sensitive and too cheap to see that they sell their soul every election for cheap gains.

they are like that because the pap has succeeded in making us politically apathetic.

something is fundamentally wrong with the state of people's minds in Sg. any change has to be brought from the bottom up if the opposition is ever to succeed.

funding is an issue. i agree. there is no choice. a benefactor has to be found so there's no use complaining.

Atobe SG

Quote:

Originally posted by CX:

"don't bother looking up towards the opposition candidates now. many are not who u wanna vote for anyway (would u vote chee???)."

How is your opinion about him formed ?

With information from the SGP media that is formed by GLCs which are controlled by the Government ?

Can we believe the hate propaganda that has been built up against this poor fellow (Dr Chee), who has the personal courage and temerity to put himself onto the political stage ?

Can someone - who major in psychology - be so insane to put himself in the limelight only to have his character assasinated ?

Can anyone truly blame him for his inexperience - given the fact that active involvement in politics is discouraged even in the early formative years of tertiary education ?

His outburst during the last election campaign, was that of any human being who have encountered frustrations at every turn; with every effort being stymied by the Ruling Party - that has established itself in a pervasive manner that reaches every core of the social, economic cultural, and political life of SGP.

Even some famous and favored political personalities have displayed before, their personal frustrations in public outbursts of anger; and yet with the help of the controlled media, such behaviour is positively portrayed and made acceptable.

Politics in the more mature political systems - such as UK, USA and Australia perhaps - would not have responded in the manner in which all public forums and media are mobilised against a single individual (as they are seldom in the hands of those in power).

The truth behind the scene of Dr Chee's coming into the SGP Political Scene will probably never come to print, neither will his intentions, goals, and objectives of coming into politics be properly and accurately printed and made freely available to the public.

CX SG

if u attribute his outburst to frustration and his trouble with the law to inexperience, then i can only come to the conclusion that in the cutthroat world of politics, his inability to master his emotions and his overly gentle learning curve renders this individual extremely unsuitable for such a venture.

don't overrate academic qualifications. a Phd means very little outside academia. it certainly does not guarantee one's success in politics Mr. Green

to me, it (a Phd) merely signifies a recognition of that individual's contribution to his discipline through an original and well thought out dissertation. (some of which aren't very well written either)

the most important thing a politician must possess, is credibility to his constituents. chee has lost that. u don't need SPH to tell u that.

lets be realistic. in Sg, people worship success. they do not worship martyrs. chiam has been around for years and people respect him as a relatively successful opposition politician. chee crashed and burnt and people ridicule him for being so dense.

but enough about chee. will u run and try to make a difference? or would u just stand by the sidelines and cuss PAP and applaud chee for taking the crap PAP throws at him?